Border Wall and Wildlife

[eamyrick]

As this is a hunting forum I thought this the appropriate place to pose this question. I'd like to keep political beliefs about immigration/drugs/smuggling out of it if possible. As most of you already know, the Texas border with Mexico is outlined with the Rio Grande river. Many of these areas are extremely remote and utilized for cattle ranching and hunting. The corridor between Mexico and Texas is utilized by numerous animals including Mule Deer, Big Horn Sheep, Whitetail Deer, Mountain Lions, Mexican Grey Wolves, Black Bears, etc. Many of these animals are endangered and on the come back. Many of these animals rely on the river (as much of this area is desert) and migration corridor between Mexico and Texas. From my perspective and the perspective of folks who study these animals, a wall would be a big blow to the wildlife and set back years of wildlife management efforts. Additionally, many of the ranches survive from income derived from hunting/cattle which is dependent on the river. As hunters, what your opinion. Is the juice worth the squeeze? Thanks.

(For perspective this photo was taken 50 miles from the nearest city, 18 miles down a dirt road, the mountains are in Mexico and the river is about 500 yards from the dirt road)

 

[Brightwhite]

Wow, this point of view on the wall has never even remotely crossed my mind. I don't have anything constructive to add right now, but I am looking forward to thinking about this further and seeing what other have to say. Great thread topic!

 

[MuleyFever]

Unfortunately the squeeze puts wildlife up against immigration/drugs/smuggling so you really can’t leave those things out of the conversation. I think that in remote areas we could manage the border with people and technology to limit the impact. A wall is probably needed in more populated and accessible areas.

 

[Russp17]

Thank you for bringing this up! Probably my biggest issue with a wall are these issues with animals and water access along with just migration routes etc. I've wrote emails tp multiple conservation groups to get feedback without hearing anything back... I think Muley fever nailed it use technology and people in the remote areas while in urban areas a fence makes sense.

 

[Eric4]

Seeing as the majority of drugs are smuggled through points of entry, and most undocumented immigrants are here from overstayed visas, I wouldn't say the juice is worth the squeeze on a border wall.

 

[dtrkyman]

Legalized drugs would be more effective than the wall, with everyone legally high big pharma will take a hit so it isn’t likely to happen.

If the liberals think a wolf couldn’t cross the wall they would demolish it the day it went up!


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[rtaylor]

This is a very complex issue. Which animals on the list would actually die because they can't migrate? Most of those animals on the list adapt pretty well. I am not saying that easy access to water wouldn't make a difference but I don't think any of them will go extinct because of a border wall. Unfortunately you can't have a wall without the political side that goes with it. I am a sportsman all the way through but I would gladly sacrifice the health of any herd of animals along the border to protect the sovereignty and security of our nation.

 

[Trial153]

From an ecologicly standpoint the wall is a terrible idea. I agree.

 

[Shrek]

Build the wall ! Especially in remote places that are not easily guarded. Wildlife will have to adapt. In some places it might make sense to build water access on our side of the border.

 

[eamyrick]

This is a very complex issue. Which animals on the list would actually die because they can't migrate? Most of those animals on the list adapt pretty well. I am not saying that easy access to water wouldn't make a difference but I don't think any of them will go extinct because of a border wall. Unfortunately you can't have a wall without the political side that goes with it. I am a sportsman all the way through but I would gladly sacrifice the health of any herd of animals along the border to protect the sovereignty and security of our nation.

I'm no biologist so I can't speak to "which animals on the list would actually die because they can't migrate," but common sense and my understanding of wildlife/resources is that overall numbers decrease as resources disappear. Black bear and grey wolf rely heavily on the river and corridor and would probably be done in Texas and mule deer numbers along the river (already low) would definitely be less. I walked around the desert for 6 days (Texas) and found water once that wasn't the river.

 

[eamyrick]

Build the wall ! Especially in remote places that are not easily guarded. Wildlife will have to adapt. In some places it might make sense to build water access on our side of the border.

Just for context I had a dead battery on a hunt this year and border patrol response time was 2 days. An unguarded wall takes a minute to cross. There are tons of videos of this online. BP currently uses blimps and high altitude drones to monitor activity in these areas currently.

 

[Eric4]

I'm no biologist so I can't speak to "which animals on the list would actually die because they can't migrate," but common sense and my understanding of wildlife/resources is that overall numbers decrease as resources disappear. Black bear and grey wolf rely heavily on the river and corridor and would probably be done in Texas and mule deer numbers along the river (already low) would definitely be less. I walked around the desert for 6 days (Texas) and found water once that wasn't the river.

This was an interesting read, and supported by over 2500 biologists. It discusses the percentage of range lost, and how it discourages finding mates, water, food etc.
https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/68/10/740/5057517

Species to add to your list would be peninsular bighorn sheep, sonoran pronghorn, and jaguars.

Wildlife will have to adapt.

I've yet to see an antelope use a ladder.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

Build the wall ! Especially in remote places that are not easily guarded. Wildlife will have to adapt. In some places it might make sense to build water access on our side of the border.

So will the few people who cross the border in remote unguarded areas.

 

[Wrathchild]

ESA and hindered migration routes has been a large reason why a wall hasn’t been built yet. Not sure how they’ll get around those other laws, unless they write into the bill that they’re specifically not applicable. Even then they’ll get challenged by enviro groups.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

It is not worth it at all. Since the OP is from Texas, what is the general consensus of others who actually live down there along the border and would be affected?

 

[5MilesBack]

Just for context I had a dead battery on a hunt this year and border patrol response time was 2 days. An unguarded wall takes a minute to cross. There are tons of videos of this online. BP currently uses blimps and high altitude drones to monitor activity in these areas currently.

As far as border security goes, a wall isn't the be all end all to security. They still need seismic sensors and eyes on in order to be more secure. But as for the animals........pick a side and adapt to it.

 

[MtGomer]

It’s one of the few actual arguments against the wall that holds water.

On the flip side, there is an ecological disaster in the desert of tons of trash and off-road driving from smugglers, even in Wilderness areas that needs to be stopped.

Also, having armed cartel scouts on lookout points with radios and cell phones above us as we enjoy our public land is not something we should have to worry about. No matter how armed you are tough you feel, it is unnerving when you’re alone in the middle of nowhere and encounter a group of smugglers when your packing a bow and a little pistol.
In my short time here in Arizona, I’ve already seen a great deal of sketchy shit in 40a and 39e up to 80 miles from the border. The frustrating part is that in my area there is very little alien smuggling. And most heroin, meth etc comes through the ports. It’s mostly marijuana. What a stupid thing to ruin the desert, kill people, and make public land unsafe over. Legalize it and you cut off the cartel’s ability to traffic it.

There are no easy answers. Many conservatives are a long ways from easing off the drug war and liberals will never agree to securing the border. Your kids’ kids will be arguing about this.

 

[JWP58]

I highly doubt a contiguous wall/fence/barrier has ever been an actual plan. Strategic large sections to funnel traffic towards ports of entry would more than likely be the implemented reality.

Let's stem the flow of mexican methamphetamine, heroin, fentanyl, and illegal aliens first. Then we can worry about how to mitigate the impacts on wildlife.

Or we can continue to do nothing, and listen to politicians of a certain party call their fellow .Gov employees "terrorists".

 

[maxp]

Sooooo.....on a different side of this would those animals on either side then become "high fence"? Or only if Canada also builds a wall???

 

[Broomd]

It’s one of the few actual arguments against the wall that holds water.

On the flip side, there is an ecological disaster in the desert of tons of trash and off-road driving from smugglers, even in Wilderness areas that needs to be stopped.

Also, having armed cartel scouts on lookout points with radios and cell phones above us as we enjoy our public land is not something we should have to worry about.
In my short time here in Arizona, I’ve already seen a great deal of sketchy shit in 40a and 39e up to 80 miles from the border. The frustrating part is that in my area there is very little alien smuggling. And most heroin, meth etc comes through the ports. It’s mostly marijuana. What a stupid thing to ruin the desert, kill people, and make public land unsafe over. Legalize it and you cut off the cartel’s ability to traffic it.

There are no easy answers. Many conservatives are a long ways from easing off the drug war and liberals will never agree to securing the border. Your kids’ kids will be arguing about this.

Indeed, the trash left behind in that country is nothing short of staggering, an eco-disaster of epic proportions.

Also, one has to wonder how much of the wildlife has been killed for food or just out or sheer happenstance and opportunity. It's not like a sizable portion of the coyotes and armed travelers care about U.S. laws.

Interesting thread.