bow tune issues? ? ?

eLightfoot

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So I just had my first kid, meaning i've been out of the regular practice i usually have. went for a period of a few months with out regular practice. Recently I decided to have some new stings put on my bow and pick up a dozen new arrows to try out and get fine tuned back into shooting. Long story short since having the new strings put on I cant shoot a tight group to save my soul from hell. I had to move my rest around a little bit to get a bullet hole but that is as far as I can get. even though I seem to have a bullet hole in paper my point of aim and point of impact do not always jive. it is very odd, I can almost shoot tighter groups at 50 and 60 yards than I can at 30. 30 Im all over the place. It is messing with me, I cant tell if it is me or the bow. I used to be a really good shot. A 2" dot was nothing at 30 yards, a gimme shot. now Im lucky to hit it one out of 5 shots? Bow is a prime rival, which i've had for a year and always shot well. I had the local archery shop put on the new strings and due timing and set to spec.

anyone else every experience this?
 
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eLightfoot

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an update....

confirmed long range accuracy. took it out to 70 yards and can keep 3 arrows in a 4" box. but I am definitely seeing the arrows shift around in flight so the fletchings must be correcting the arrows to fly well at longer distance. short range accuracy still sucks. ive tried a number of different fletching types and combos as well. bare shaft arrow shows tail right at 20 yards how to corrects this without messing with center shot?
 

doverpack12

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Try taking a little tension out of the flexis rollerguard and letting it move toward the arrow. Go with half turn at a time and keep track. You might not need much. If it gets worse to the other way.
 

DWhitt

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I personally like to bare shaft tune at 20. If the bow will spit bareshaft repeatably then that should take care of the arrow flight issues.
 

Brendan

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bare shaft arrow shows tail right at 20 yards how to corrects this without messing with center shot?

If your bare shafts are consistently tail right and you have no contact issues - then bow isn't tuned yet. You either need to yoke tune or adjust your rest to correct.

First rule out fletching contact with your rest or face. Lipstick, spray on foot powder or talc can be used here.

Then, make sure bare shaft tail right is consistent. You should also be able to see this manifest itself as a difference between your fixed blade broadheads and field points when looking at point of impact.

If it's consistent - then it's either twist yokes or move rest. If it's not consistent - it's your form, draw length, contact issues, something along those lines.
 
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doverpack12

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If your bare shafts are consistently tail right and you have no contact issues - then bow isn't tuned yet. You either need to yoke tune or adjust your rest to correct.

First rule out fletching contact with your rest or face. Lipstick, spray on foot powder or talc can be used here.

Then, make sure bare shaft tail right is consistent. You should also be able to see this manifest itself as a difference between your fixed blade broadheads and field points when looking at point of impact.

If it's consistent - then it's either twist yokes or move rest. If it's not consistent - it's your form, draw length, contact issues, something along those lines.

Prime Rival doesn't have yokes. Your options are to move the rest, alter your grip or use the roller guard to increase or decrease torque on the cables in effect acting like yokes. If your rest is set to centershot leave it and play with the roller guard or slightly more thumb side pressure on the grip or counterclockwise grip rotation to produce this. Ontarget7 did a video showing elite grip but its pretty much the same for prime and most binary cam bows.
 
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eLightfoot

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Prime Rival doesn't have yokes. Your options are to move the rest, alter your grip or use the roller guard to increase or decrease torque on the cables in effect acting like yokes. If your rest is set to centershot leave it and play with the roller guard or slightly more thumb side pressure on the grip or counterclockwise grip rotation to produce this. Ontarget7 did a video showing elite grip but its pretty much the same for prime and most binary cam bows.

I've seen the grip vid by ontarget, funny thing is that is the exact grip I have been using since I started shooting a year ago without any instruction lol. I'm a dummy completely forgot about adjusting the flexis, I'll give that a shot today.
 
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eLightfoot

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no matter what I do I get point left and tail right, bout and inch each way at 15 yards. tried flexis loose/tight, moved rest all the way out to 1", two different brands of arrows. vertical is perfect. ??? bow is 29" draw, 73lbs, shooting black eagle spartans 300s, cut to 28.5" w 30 grain added to insert, plus 125 point. using a scott shark release and pulling through the trigger with a curled finger and back tension. using same grip as Shane (Ontarget7) in his prime Centergy grip video. this is the first time I've ever tried tuning a bow so I am a rookie here, HELP
 
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eLightfoot

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tried altering grips, they only made the problem worse. my normal grip is low wrist. Im 95% sure its not a problem in form. With the old stings i was absolutely deadly and fixed blades flew like darts with field tips out to 110 yards. I never experimented tuning with the previous set up because it just shot so well. never tried to paper shoot or bare shaft. So Im not sure what it was doing before. Do do know the previous strings were installed incorrectly and caused the bow to be way out of spec but timing was good and it shot lights out. now it is in spec and wont shoot lol
 

doverpack12

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The draw length could have gotten shorter with the new strings in relation to the old (stretched) strings. If moving the flexis and rest has no change it's draw length related and you need more length. With the length too short your release elbow is not in line with the arrow so you are actually unintentionally pulling the string to the right when drawn. The short length also will cause you to pull harder against the strings flexing and twisting the riser more pushing the point of your arrow left more. Try having some twists added to your cables and make sure the draw stops are backed all the way out but still synced with each other. You can move/check the stops without a press they may have not moved them all the way out when changing strings.
 
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eLightfoot

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The draw length could have gotten shorter with the new strings in relation to the old (stretched) strings. If moving the flexis and rest has no change it's draw length related and you need more length. With the length too short your release elbow is not in line with the arrow so you are actually unintentionally pulling the string to the right when drawn. The short length also will cause you to pull harder against the strings flexing and twisting the riser more pushing the point of your arrow left more. Try having some twists added to your cables and make sure the draw stops are backed all the way out but still synced with each other. You can move/check the stops without a press they may have not moved them all the way out when changing strings.

this must be the problem....? I know that with the old strings my ata was 35 3/4" now it is 35 3/16" and I think the draw length feels a little shorter. the longer ata was due to incorrect installation of stings, also caused the bow to pull 77lbs, and have a shorter brace height but it shot great. might just need to buy a bow press and start learning for myself. im new to archery but I have come to expect a pretty high level of performance and am pretty anal about accuracy. might be the only way.
 

Brendan

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Which way did you move the rest to correct a tail right (To the left?). If it made no difference - try moving it the other way. I know it's crazy, but I witnessed a bow recently have an opposite reaction to how I make my adjustments.

If nothing's correcting it - I'd be 100% sure you don't have any fletching contact first or you're wasting your time with everything else. Seriously - rule it out once, and then twice just to be sure.

Personally - I'm not a huge fan of trying to find a grip that works for a bow - for someone like Shane (Ontarget7) that does this all day, every day - maybe, but I think for most normal people you should focus on a good repeatable, relaxed grip that stays the same from bow to bow.

Also - I wouldn't worry about it being exactly in spec if draw length and draw weight are where you need it, and then it tunes correctly.
 
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eLightfoot

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Which way did you move the rest to correct a tail right (To the left?). If it made no difference - try moving it the other way. I know it's crazy, but I witnessed a bow recently have an opposite reaction to how I make my adjustments.

If nothing's correcting it - I'd be 100% sure you don't have any fletching contact first or you're wasting your time with everything else. Seriously - rule it out once, and then twice just to be sure.

Personally - I'm not a huge fan of trying to find a grip that works for a bow - for someone like Shane (Ontarget7) that does this all day, every day - maybe, but I think for most normal people you should focus on a good repeatable, relaxed grip that stays the same from bow to bow.

Also - I wouldn't worry about it being exactly in spec if draw length and draw weight are where you need it, and then it tunes correctly.

I am right handed and moved my rest away from the riser. From center shot 13/16 all the way out to 1".
 

Montanated

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You know maybe I'm old school with arrows but that arrow should be a noodle with 150+ grains up front. I'd look hard at the spine of that arrow.

Just for kicks screw a 100 grain point into it and see how that arrow reacts. The tail right used to be an indication of stiff spine, but sheesh I can't believe that's the issue here unless Black Eagle are over spines to begin with. Seeing as how you were shooting at 77lbs and are now 4 lbs lighter seems to me there could be an arrow factor here.

Also no harm in being picky. It's the only way to go. Check your timing again after having a few shots into its stretched a bit. I don't care what anyone says strings stretch and settle after having shots in them. Have seen it way too many time to believe anything else.

Go back to your normal grip, usual release and take out all the factors you can by doing things exactly the same as you had before.

Give a different arrow a try if you have to, try to rule everything out you can there.
 

jmez

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Sounds like it is you rather then the bow. An out of tune bow will generally group arrows, just not in the right place.
 

doverpack12

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this must be the problem....? I know that with the old strings my ata was 35 3/4" now it is 35 3/16" and I think the draw length feels a little shorter. the longer ata was due to incorrect installation of stings, also caused the bow to pull 77lbs, and have a shorter brace height but it shot great. might just need to buy a bow press and start learning for myself. im new to archery but I have come to expect a pretty high level of performance and am pretty anal about accuracy. might be the only way.

Draw the bow with an arrow and have someone take a picture from straight behind you inline with the arrow and preferably above you a little if possible. This will show you the position of your release arm. Also take a picture from the bow side at 90 degrees. Did you check to make sure the draw stops are backed out all the way?
 

Brendan

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I have not seen you answer this question yet - Have you ruled out fletching contact with your rest or cables? How did you test?

After that - what happens if you move the rest to the right from your original center shot? 1/16" at a time?
 

OR Archer

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I feel your pain on this one. I had a customer bring in the exact bow you have. That bow gave me fits. Never had an issue getting any other Prime to tune but that model was a PIA. I tried everything to get it to tune down the center and it just wouldn't.
 
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