Broadhead Help

BlckBeard

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Apr 24, 2018
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Montana
Hello,
I'm having one hell of a time getting broadheads to group with my field points. I'm shooting an Elite Option 6, 28.5 draw @ 72#. Black eagle X-Impact 300 gr with 125 gr Iron Will Solids. Total arrow weight is approximately 465. Chrono at 298 fps. My walk back tune on field points are dead on. Walk back tune with broadheads are 4 inches left but perfectly vertical. If I move my rest right to try and bring them together, both groups move right with the same 4 inch gap. Paper tune is dead on.

Ay ideas would be helpful!!!!

Thanks,

Adam
 

WannabeHunter

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I'll start by saying I'm fairly new to self tuning. But from what I've read, if your bow is tuned for fp and your groups are consistent with fp and boardheads but just hitting in different spots, then you bow is properly tuned. Broadheads will rarely hit dead-on with fp. So I will just be resighting for broadheads in the next week or so.

This is a good thread on broadhead tuning.
 

rileybassman

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Try bareshaft tuning at 20 then 30 yards... shows where your bow "wants" to shoot with or without fletching... most bows I work on, if you bareshaft/walkback tune, broadheads should be there too. have you checked a second broadhead or different arrows with the broadhead? Spine may be a little too weak or strong. Also, try moving your rest to the left a little... sometimes with tuning, it can be opposite of what you think depending on how your bow is launching the arrow.
 

jacob_ski4

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I just cleaned up what sounds like a very similar issue. For me, it was my form. I had gotten in a bad habit of a collapsing front shoulder and slightly leaning backwards to compensate for that collapsed shoulder. I hadn’t realized this was developing over the summer as my field points groups simply weren’t reflecting the breakdown. After chasing my tail with tuning, I did one of those classic AT “hows my form” style pictures and noticed the breakdown that way. At 298 FPS any sort of breakdown you may have is going to be pretty magnified with the fixed heads that paper may not show. If your posture looks fine, try playing around with your grip and seeing if that brings your groups together. Good luck!
 

KyleR1985

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Jul 28, 2019
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I just cleaned up what sounds like a very similar issue. For me, it was my form. I had gotten in a bad habit of a collapsing front shoulder and slightly leaning backwards to compensate for that collapsed shoulder. I hadn’t realized this was developing over the summer as my field points groups simply weren’t reflecting the breakdown. After chasing my tail with tuning, I did one of those classic AT “hows my form” style pictures and noticed the breakdown that way. At 298 FPS any sort of breakdown you may have is going to be pretty magnified with the fixed heads that paper may not show. If your posture looks fine, try playing around with your grip and seeing if that brings your groups together. Good luck!
A change in sight a couple years ago revealed I had been torquing my bow quite a bit. A side effect was not being able to get field points and BH in same spot. Once I recognized the grip issue, and fixed it, everything came together. Very similar situation. Don’t rule yourself out.
 

EchoLimaKilo

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Feb 28, 2016
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I second the bare shaft tuning. Usually for me when my broadheads are hitting left it's because my bareshafts are flying tail right. To fix a tail right bareshaft flight you want to move your rest out and away from the riser on a right hand bow. I'd try moving the rest to the left and see what happens.

The other benefit to shooting bareshafts in general is seeing whether or not you're torquing the bow. I had to play with my grip for quite a while with my Prime before I got one that would consistently shoot well, shot a lot of bareshafts to get it consistent.
 

Beendare

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I'll start by saying I'm fairly new to self tuning. But from what I've read, if your bow is tuned for fp and your groups are consistent with fp and boardheads but just hitting in different spots, then you bow is properly tuned. Broadheads will rarely hit dead-on with fp. So I will just be resighting for broadheads in the next week or so.
Whomever told you that is wrong. Paper tuning with FP's is only 1/2 way tuned.

When you put a BH on your arrow and it doesn't hit with your FP's....this is telling you that your arrows are coming out of the bow cockeyed.

It could be due to a few reasons; Poor form and bow tuning being the big ones.

...
 

Brendan

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In my experience, you're moving the rest the wrong way. My notes:
  • Broadhead hitting left is the same as bareshafts hitting left or a tail right tear.
  • Tighten Right Yoke
  • Loosen Left Yoke
  • Rest Left
  • Shim Cam(s) to the Right
  • Crank down flex guard for more sideways string pressure / more string clearance.
I would re-set your rest to centershot and go from there. Also - make sure you don't have any fletching contact with rest / cables.

Paper tune is a starting point only. Long range broadheads as compared to field points are what matters.
 

WannabeHunter

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It could be due to a few reasons; Poor form and bow tuning being the big ones.

A simple search will reveal that this is not a settled topic and there are various passionate opinions.

I don't want to hijack the thread but I believe I have the a very similar experience as the OP.
My broadheads will hit consistently 3 inches left of my fp. I even walk backed with only broadheads and they were perfectly in line vertically and a consistent 3 inches left of my target line from 10-50 yds.

My guess is that my form must be causing some torque, but this close to season, I don't think I'm going to tweak anything else. My question: is this a serious problem? If I'm shooting basically identical horizontally, wouldn't just a sight adjustment suffice for now?
 

Brendan

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My question: is this a serious problem? If I'm shooting basically identical horizontally, wouldn't just a sight adjustment suffice for now?
My opinion - it's better to figure it out if you can. If you're too close to a hunt, that's one thing, but if you've got time on your side, why not? If you can get your broadheads and field points flying together it means the Arrow is leaving the bow true, you've got the most efficient flight. Less / no correction needed by vanes. You can switch between different fixed blades, mechanicals, and field points with the same point of impact (except vertical drop at real long range). And a big one? If an arrow is still correcting and hits an animal at close range, it will kill your penetration...

Start by making sure broadheads spin true on an arrow spinner, sanity check spine to make sure you're stiff enough, rule out fletching contact, then start testing / tweaking.

Check this video out. Notice how there's zero oscillation of the arrow to correct? When I do my part, I can shoot slick tricks, muzzys, iron wills, sevr, trypan, field points and they'll all hit the same at 80 yards, with maybe a hair more drop from the fixed blades...

 

rileybassman

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In my experience, you're moving the rest the wrong way. My notes:
  • Broadhead hitting left is the same as bareshafts hitting left or a tail right tear.
  • Tighten Right Yoke
  • Loosen Left Yoke
  • Rest Left
  • Shim Cam(s) to the Right
  • Crank down flex guard for more sideways string pressure / more string clearance.
I would re-set your rest to centershot and go from there. Also - make sure you don't have any fletching contact with rest / cables.

Paper tune is a starting point only. Long range broadheads as compared to field points are what matters.
I've ran into that rest situation as well... I think with thebareshafts, the bow is "pushing" the rear of the arrow out to the side... Hence moving the rest opposite. With broadheads, it can work that way too, or I have also seen standard wisdom of direction the tip work too. I try one way, and if that doesn't work, the other lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Beendare

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A simple search will reveal that this is not a settled topic and there are various passionate opinions.

I don't want to hijack the thread but I believe I have the a very similar experience as the OP.
My broadheads will hit consistently 3 inches left of my fp. I even walk backed with only broadheads and they were perfectly in line vertically and a consistent 3 inches left of my target line from 10-50 yds.

My guess is that my form must be causing some torque, but this close to season, I don't think I'm going to tweak anything else. My question: is this a serious problem? If I'm shooting basically identical horizontally, wouldn't just a sight adjustment suffice for now?
Various Opinions? Do you mean its OK to move your sight to your poor flying hunting arrows?

Hey, to each his own....but when you get your setup dialed in with consistent perfect arrow flight - its an eye opener.

Ask anyone with a tuned bow and/or they worked out their form flaws...they will all tell you the same.

...
 

5MilesBack

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A simple search will reveal that this is not a settled topic and there are various passionate opinions.
There should only be one opinion that's correct, and that's that a straight flying arrow will have more penetration potential than a non-straight flying arrow. It should also be more forgiving.
 

Trial153

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NY
In my experience, you're moving the rest the wrong way. My notes:
  • Broadhead hitting left is the same as bareshafts hitting left or a tail right tear.
  • Tighten Right Yoke
  • Loosen Left Yoke
  • Rest Left
  • Shim Cam(s) to the Right
  • Crank down flex guard for more sideways string pressure / more string clearance.
I would re-set your rest to centershot and go from there. Also - make sure you don't have any fletching contact with rest / cables.

Paper tune is a starting point only. Long range broadheads as compared to field points are what matters.
This ^
 

Bill V

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Looks like there is some good advice on this thread already but here are my two cents. Most customers say our broadheads shoot really well for them, but here are some potential issues to look out for:

Fletch is too small. Broadheads add drag to the front of your arrow, so you need more drag at the back of your arrow to maintain stability. Very small target fletchings may not work well. Something the size of Blazer Vanes or AAE Max Hunter or Max Stealth work well.

Straight Fletch. You want your arrow to spin to add stability and resist moving off track. I recommend at least 2 degrees helical or offset.

Under spined. This will cause excessive flexing of the arrow at the shot and can make broadheads fly poorly. I recommend optimal spine or slightly stiff.

FOC too low. Increasing FOC will increase stability. I personally like the 12-16% range.

Bow grip torque. Have someone take a video over your shoulder of you shooting to see what the bow and arrow are doing at the shot. You can also pick up tuning issues this way like the arrow fish-tailing. The slow motion videos work pretty well on newer phones.

Bow tuning (arrow not coming straight out of bow). I paper tune to get a bullet hole at about 12 feet. I then also shoot a bare shaft and a fletched shaft at 20 & 30 yards and make adjustment as needed to get them to hit close the same spot with the shafts parallel.

Also, some find our vented blades to be more forgiving than our solid blades. This makes sense that reduced surface area could help somewhat with the above issues. I just came inside from shooting good 100 yard groups with two s125 broadheads and two field points in a cross wind, so I'm confident they can be shot well.. Good luck and let me know if I can help.
 
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BlckBeard

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Apr 24, 2018
Messages
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Montana
Looks like there is some good advice on this thread already but here are my two cents. Most customers say our broadheads shoot really well for them, but here are some potential issues to look out for:

Fletch is too small. Broadheads add drag to the front of your arrow, so you need more drag at the back of your arrow to maintain stability. Very small target fletchings may not work well. Something the size of Blazer Vanes or AAE Max Hunter or Max Stealth work well.

Straight Fletch. You want your arrow to spin to add stability and resist moving off track. I recommend at least 2 degrees helical or offset.

Under spined. This will cause excessive flexing of the arrow at the shot and can make broadheads fly poorly. I recommend optimal spine or slightly stiff.

FOC too low. Increasing FOC will increase stability. I personally like the 12-16% range.

Bow grip torque. Have someone take a video over your shoulder of you shooting to see what the bow and arrow are doing at the shot. You can also pick up tuning issues this way like the arrow fish-tailing. The slow motion videos work pretty well on newer phones.

Bow tuning (arrow not coming straight out of bow). I paper tune to get a bullet hole at about 12 feet. I then also shoot a bare shaft and a fletched shaft at 20 & 30 yards and make adjustment as needed to get them to hit close the same spot with the shafts parallel.

Also, some find our vented blades to be more forgiving than our solid blades. This makes sense that reduced surface area could help somewhat with the above issues. I just came inside from shooting good 100 yard groups with two s125 broadheads and two field points in a cross wind, so I'm confident they can be shot well.. Good luck and let me know if I can help.
Bill,
Thanks for the response. I've been very excited to finally switch to the IWs this year! I bought 6 with a case so I'm heavily invested in making them work.

I'm shooting the Bronco Vanes, 3" with a 3 degree right helical. My FOC is 16.67%.

I'm definitely considering torque as well as being underspined. I'm going to try some other 100 gr heads to see if that helps. My field points fly perfectly to 70 yards (farthest I shoot).

Thanks for the input!

Adam
 

ndbuck09

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Feb 16, 2015
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Boise, ID
maybe I'm missing it but I couldn't find how long you said your arrows were? So without a length, we really don't have a basis to judge your arrow spine and effective spine with a 125 tip. We also don't know what insert/outsert you're running so who knows exactly how much weight you have up front. This all affects your dynamic spine.

There's no substitute for checking cam sync, drawstop sync, centershot, Limb bolts equal. Then shooting bareshafts. It seems to me that your arrow is correcting itself with your field points and it can't correct itself with your broadheads. Not bragging here, but a tuned bow will spit most any modern head accurately, no matter what anyone says. I've shot ironwills, grizzley stick 1.5", day six, shuttle t lock all in the last couple weeks and they all hit together out of my setup (knock on wood that nothing moves on me).

As mentioned above, you should never, ever think that broadheads hitting different than field points is just how it is sometimes. This is absolutely not true. If you don't have time to remedy this situation, then you should have started earlier. Obviously life happens so if you do find yourself with a hunt days away and no way to fix it, then the absolute last resort would be to move your sight. If it was me though, I would shrink your effective range on the hunt because your arrows are impacting sideways and thus not capable of full penetration energy behind the broadhead.
 
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BlckBeard

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Thank you! I'm going to try moving my rest left, as I've been moving it right and both groups have simply been moving right.
maybe I'm missing it but I couldn't find how long you said your arrows were? So without a length, we really don't have a basis to judge your arrow spine and effective spine with a 125 tip. We also don't know what insert/outsert you're running so who knows exactly how much weight you have up front. This all affects your dynamic spine.

There's no substitute for checking cam sync, drawstop sync, centershot, Limb bolts equal. Then shooting bareshafts. It seems to me that your arrow is correcting itself with your field points and it can't correct itself with your broadheads. Not bragging here, but a tuned bow will spit most any modern head accurately, no matter what anyone says. I've shot ironwills, grizzley stick 1.5", day six, shuttle t lock all in the last couple weeks and they all hit together out of my setup (knock on wood that nothing moves on me).

As mentioned above, you should never, ever think that broadheads hitting different than field points is just how it is sometimes. This is absolutely not true. If you don't have time to remedy this situation, then you should have started earlier. Obviously life happens so if you do find yourself with a hunt days away and no way to fix it, then the absolute last resort would be to move your sight. If it was me though, I would shrink your effective range on the hunt because your arrows are impacting sideways and thus not capable of full penetration energy behind the broadhead.
Good point. My arrows are 27.75". They have Black Eagle 40 gr outserts. Does that help?

I don't accept the broadheads hitting different is the way it should be, which is why I'm pulling my hair out trying to solve this.
 

ndbuck09

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Boise, ID
Hey Man, I'm trying to run your numbers in my software for archers but your arrow is coming in at 422 grains with the X-impact 27.75"/BE outsert 40 gns/125 head/3 bronco fletch/nock that weighs 7gns. Is there something I'm missing there that is part of your arrow to make up ~40grains? I've used this software for my builds over the last 5 years and never had it off by more than 2 grains which I assume is glue variation.
 
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BlckBeard

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Hey Man, I'm trying to run your numbers in my software for archers but your arrow is coming in at 422 grains with the X-impact 27.75"/BE outsert 40 gns/125 head/3 bronco fletch/nock that weighs 7gns. Is there something I'm missing there that is part of your arrow to make up ~40grains? I've used this software for my builds over the last 5 years and never had it off by more than 2 grains which I assume is glue variation.
Ah! I gave you the wrong number for the outserts. They are 80 gr, which makes up the other 40!
 
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