Broadhead tuning sucks

[Tony Trietch]

I fall in the middle of this debate.

I understand and agree with @RosinBag when he states that is physically impossible to have a bh hit at all distances with a fp. And that over thinking and diving down the tuning rabbit hole can lead to early development of white hair.

But I am the guy that propped the rabbit hole open with a stick until I could bring over the back hoe and dig the entrance big enough to drive down it. I discovered a long time ago that working on my bows myself was very rewarding and it helped me understand how everything works together. Am I an expert, probably not but I have a process that I do with every bow from start to finish and when I am done, my bh will hit very close to my fp throughout my entire sight tape. Close enough that it will kill everything I shoot at if I do my job. Is it perfect? No. They will hit a little high in tight short distances but still be within a couple inches beyond 100. Not all heads are equal and I am not just talking fixed vs mech. I have had a few mech heads that have more aerodynamic drag than an old Bear Razortip. You have to find out for yourself but it's possible to get them "functionally grouping together". Exact? No.

 

[Billy Goat]

I think when you consider the little bit of drag created by the blades compared to the distance the arrow can travel you need to get past 100 yards before it causes much of an effect. I have bh tuned through a shooting machine out to 65 yards. My broadheads will fall into the same area as a group of arrows with fp's make at the distances from 20 to 65. Generally your talking about a group of 2" at 65 depending on what arrows and setup it is. These aren't big broadheads. But I think if you are willing to spend the time and play with components you can definitely get it to work. Might take shortening the shafts or reducing poundage a little, rotating nocks, culling a few arrows that don't want to sit with the rest of the group.

It's a rabbit hole that I sometimes end up halfway to China in.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Apparently my vision is going as I only see two arrows in the target.

I will shoot all my arrows I plan on hunting with to make sure they all hit home. So three at 60 isn’t enough for me to call it good, but I make bad shots at times and I have to take those ones out of the equation. So I may shoot 100 arrows at 60 to determine that my mark is where it is supposed to be.

Are you shooting that many arrows when you first setup your bow or sight or during normal practice?

 

[RosinBag]

I shoot that many arrows nearly everyday. My 60 is the home base for my slider and I make sure it is dead nuts as the rest of everything is built from 60 down and 60 up.

 

[RosinBag]

And I respectfully disagree for those that shoot them at 100yards. I have shot arrows through a chronograph at 100 yards; fixed blades, mechanicals and field points. Fixed blades are pretty close to 3-4% slower and mechanicals 1-2% unless they have no external components. 3-4% slower at 100 is 8-10” for a bow shooting 270-280 give or take. The difference for your tape being built at 275 or 285 is big in my opinion.

 

[5MilesBack]

Apparently my vision is going as I only see two arrows in the target.

I will shoot all my arrows I plan on hunting with to make sure they all hit home. So three at 60 isn’t enough for me to call it good, but I make bad shots at times and I have to take those ones out of the equation. So I may shoot 100 arrows at 60 to determine that my mark is where it is supposed to be.

I said I shot those two arrows three times.......that's 6 arrows total. That is a FP arrow on the left and a fixed BH arrow on the right, in case you missed that. The only grouping I care about when BH tuning is the grouping between those two arrows alone. When I'm tuning I'm not concerning myself with the well over 100+ arrows I'll shoot at 60 before hunting season. That's a whole other ball game. This is just tuning.......making sure that BH's hit the same spot as FP arrows, and if they don't.....I make bow adjustments until they do hit together........consistently.

Then once I know it's BH tuned at 60 (BH's hitting the same spot as FP's.....not just within a couple inches), then I'll finish setting my sights and go into my summer pre-season routines. I'll probably shoot 5-6k arrows between now and September, including testing BH's on every hunting arrow at every distance out to 80.

However, I'm behind my normal timeline because I just got done rebuilding my bow in June with new cams, strings, and axles. And after it broke a yoke loop at full draw in 2018 and literally blew apart, the shop put the new limbs on in the wrong sequence......because that's the way PSE told them to put them on. Well, that was wrong and caused some horrible bottom cam lean and a badly worn cable, leading to an untunable bow for the last year.

But after rebuilding it correctly in June (it even had bent axles)........it's back, and very very close to where I want it and expect it to be. So now I can start getting into my summer routine of a lot of arrows every day, so hunting season will be routine and second nature. But I really doubt that I'll need to shoot beyond 60 yards during hunting season anyway. I haven't taken a hunting shot past 59 yards since 2007.

 

[5MilesBack]

Holy thread explosion. Apparently asking about Broadhead tuning is right up there with politics and religion.

And much like politics and religion, there's definitely a right way and a wrong way.......with all three.

 

[Brendan]

And I respectfully disagree for those that shoot them at 100yards. I have shot arrows through a chronograph at 100 yards; fixed blades, mechanicals and field points. Fixed blades are pretty close to 3-4% slower and mechanicals 1-2% unless they have no external components. 3-4% slower at 100 is 8-10” for a bow shooting 270-280 give or take. The difference for your tape being built at 275 or 285 is big in my opinion.

That's for your draw weight/arrow weight at those speeds. A heavier arrow going the same speed will slow less due to the momentum difference when using the same broadhead. Keep in mind someone like 5MB is shooting heavy arrows with something like a 32" draw.

 

[RosinBag]

I have an open invitation for someone to come prove it. Make me a believer.

It is so very similar to those who shoot these 2” groups at 60 all day when they are on the keyboard.

I have shot in over a thousand tournaments with some of the best that the USA has to offer and even they can’t shoot like some of the folks here can with broad heads.

But none the less just call me so I can get the Hooter Shooter set up.

 

[Billy Goat]

And I respectfully disagree for those that shoot them at 100yards. I have shot arrows through a chronograph at 100 yards; fixed blades, mechanicals and field points. Fixed blades are pretty close to 3-4% slower and mechanicals 1-2% unless they have no external components. 3-4% slower at 100 is 8-10” for a bow shooting 270-280 give or take. The difference for your tape being built at 275 or 285 is big in my opinion.

You have me curious now. Do you still have data from when you were shooting at 100 yards? I plotted from 3' to 65 yards on different arrow weights. I'm curious how much of a drop in velocities from around 65 yards to 100. If arrow is traveling 200 fps at 100 yards your 3-4% would be 6-8 fps. Pretty significant. I suspect a mid weight arrow traveling 290 fps at 3' and 263 fps at 65 yards would still be close to or over 230 fps by 100.

 

[madkaw284]

And I respectfully disagree for those that shoot them at 100yards. I have shot arrows through a chronograph at 100 yards; fixed blades, mechanicals and field points. Fixed blades are pretty close to 3-4% slower and mechanicals 1-2% unless they have no external components. 3-4% slower at 100 is 8-10” for a bow shooting 270-280 give or take. The difference for your tape being built at 275 or 285 is big in my opinion.

You can’t apply those same numbers to every different combination of vastly different bow and arrow setups. But no one can argue with physics either, fixed blades create drag and that drag will cause them to hit lower at further and further distances. How much lower can vary widely!


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[Billy Goat]

It is so very similar to those who shoot these 2” groups at 60 all day when they are on the keyboard.

Now I'm wondering if this is a dig at me. Yes I said 2" at 60 yards. Yes I also said shooting machine.

I can't hold 2" at 60. I think I shoot pretty well, but not that well.

 

[RosinBag]

Billy Goat, I am not sure I understand your question. But if it is 290 coming out of the bow, I found the FP were roughly 3-4% faster at 100 than fixed blades were at 100. The exact speeds I don’t recall, but mine was only at 280. More than 280 and I think fixed blades become unmanageable for the average shooter.

If I have time I will shoot them again tomorrow out of my bow and I will give you point blank speed, 60 yard speed and 100 yard for each of field point, Sevr mechanical and I will use the Montec as they are a normal shape. I have Steykers, wac ems, slick tricks and ram cats as well.

But I am not returning just to get the numbers. But I will shoot several of them tomorrow morning.

 

[RosinBag]

Not a dig at you at all, there are guys who can do that, and I have not seen you shoot.

But there are many keyboard world class champions on here. I have only seen one guy in person stack arrows at distance with a fixed blade and that is Tim Gillingham and he did it with a 34 or 35” ATA bow at like 32” draw. It looked like a freak show as the it was nearly just as long as it was wide at full draw.

 

[CAhunter]

OP, I haven’t read the whole thread and it may have been mentioned but if you’re shooting a 3 fletch then try 4. It helped me with my BH tuning

 

[WI in the west]

So i was shooting today after watching an hour worth of form videos and decided to focus on grip and follow through a little closer and that helped quite significantly I thought. I then nudged my rest around to get the broad heads closer, after maybe 6 rounds of shooting a broad head and field points I probably moved it 3/32 and the arrows are hitting 3 inches right still. I’m
Starting to worry that’s way to far but if my 3field points grouped in Around the diameter of a golf ball should I even really worry about it being out of tune? There was no noticeable penetration loss in the target but I feel somethings gotta be jacked up if I moved the rest that much. Or would you say if it groups good to my ability roll with it?

 

[madkaw284]

So i was shooting today after watching an hour worth of form videos and decided to focus on grip and follow through a little closer and that helped quite significantly I thought. I then nudged my rest around to get the broad heads closer, after maybe 6 rounds of shooting a broad head and field points I probably moved it 3/32 and the arrows are hitting 3 inches right still. I’m
Starting to worry that’s way to far but if my 3field points grouped in Around the diameter of a golf ball should I even really worry about it being out of tune? There was no noticeable penetration loss in the target but I feel somethings gotta be jacked up if I moved the rest that much. Or would you say if it groups good to my ability roll with it?

At what distance were you shooting?


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[WI in the west]

At what distance were you shooting?

Only 40 with a pretty good left to right wind so I know that will mess with it to a degree. But I’d say I felt I was making a ton of well executed shots and the grouping showed it. That’s why I’m curious if I should even worry about what I did to the rest since It still grouped about as good as I ever grouped at 40 with just field points
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[WI in the west]

To make it simpler I should say it like this, my arrows appear to be entering the target straight still since I can’t easily see bright green fletchings and wraps. So In my head that means nothing’s way out of whack that’s detrimental and would lead to wounding something. Keep in mind I shoot a 575 grain 4 fletch arrow with 70ish lbs at a 30 inch draw. So as long as my arrows hit on center left to right from say 10 to 60 I’d guess I’m fine, And maybe just stay focused on shot execution for now? Thoughts?

 

[Jeff Martin]

OP,
I have had my bow perfectly tuned and able to shoot some fixed blade heads and other heads simply would not shoot. I would set your bow up correctly and dont chase a single head. You might try several different heads if you have not already.

1. Paper Tune
2. Shoot bare shafts (multiple arrows setups if you can) ie: 100grn, 125grn, diff spines, etc..
3. Get your bare arrows to shoot perfectly with fletched at 20 - 25 yards.
4. Tie on the blades....Try multiple Broad Heads...you will be there I am almost certain
5. go Hunt...

Dont worry about anything longer than 30.....kill critters