Broadheads Hitting to the Right. New Arrows? Arrow Build Help / Advice

[BenchToField]

It's been a frustrating experience to say the least. This is my first year really learning about and tuning for broadheads. I had no idea how off I was. Long story short, I think I narrowed the problem down to the fact that I need stiffer spined arrow. (Am I right?)

Let me quickly get you up to speed. What started as some low right broadhead groups, turned into new strings, bow tuned, and new broadheads. $330 dollars later, I am now able to shoot bullet holes through paper with field points but my broadheads (both brands) are still impacting right. Moving the rest any amount does not fix the issue. See below. In both photos below (2 different groups) the left 2 arrows are field points the right arrow is a broadhead. I repeated this at least two dozen times. Same groupings.



My bow specs:

Hoyt Alphamax 35
IBO: 316
DW: 72
DL: 29.5
Brace Height: 7"
Letoff: 75%
Axle to Axle: 35

Current Arrows: Carbon Express Piledriver Hunter 350

Arrow Length: 31

According to this app that I learned about during my search for a solution, my arrow is way too weak (below left). Unless I cut an inch off the arrow and drop to 62 lbs (below right).




Since killing a bull elk is the goal. Dropping draw weight is not really the direction I want to go. SO...now into the deep hole of learning about arrow building. FOC, grains / lb, total arrow weight, kenetic energy, FPS, energy at 60, fletching design. straight vs. helical. Lots of variables. Lots of opinions. Lot of directions one could go.

My goal. Penetration on elk. No match for whitetails. Groups really well at long distances. As I learn to shoot further and further, I don't run out of sight tape or smoke my arrow on my sight. I'd like to shoot (practice only) at 100 yards. So far I'm still working on my 60 yard groups which are getting better.

I've been messing around with arrow builds on the app. Watching youtube videos. Reading forums. But I'm not sure where to go from here.

Questions:

What should I be focusing on?
What FOC should I shoot for?
Is there a total arrow weight range I should be in?
Any videos, books, or forums I should watch / read?
Any recommendations, thoughts, or advice?

Below are some builds I've been messing with. These have heavy inserts (100-125 grain) and (125 grain) tip. I do have (5) 125 grain montecs. All other broadheads are 100 grain. I'm not opposed to buying heaver heads and components, I just want to feel confident in my setup and get this bow to tune to both broadheads and field points.

 

[Jellymon1]

Good holes in paper is just a starting point, it doesn’t mean the bow is tuned. I don’t even use paper any more. With that arrow length and insert weight I’d say weak on spine, shortening the arrow would help, but also likely you’re upper cams pre lean is off and needs to be yoke tuned, which requires a press. Put an arrow against the left side of the cam along the length of the string and it should cross the string right around you’re dloop. I would try this before buying more stuff.

 

[Hoh Down]

I wish more people would research like you have here. Quick question - are the above choices with a 31" carbon to carbon arrow like you've stated for the carbon express that is giving you fits? I typically find that arrows should be shorter than draw length. For example, with my 28.5" dl, a 27.5" carbon to carbon arrow w/ outsert puts the broadhead just at the front of the shelf. I ask, because by shortening the arrow, you could possibly go w/ a 300 spine arrow and lose some weight and pickup speed. I try to be in the 430-500 grain range overall with at least 15% FOC, but I don't get hung up on all the numbers. Of the 3 listed above, I'd go with the RIP TKO, but with a shorter arrow, you may be able to move things around a bit. Food for thought.

 

[BenchToField]

Good holes in paper is just a starting point, it doesn’t mean the bow is tuned. I don’t even use paper any more. With that arrow length and insert weight I’d say weak on spine, shortening the arrow would help, but also likely you’re upper cams pre lean is off and needs to be yoke tuned, which requires a press. Put an arrow against the left side of the cam along the length of the string and it should cross the string right around you’re dloop. I would try this before buying more stuff.

So the whole point of new stings, according to the bow tech, was my cable design would not allow him to put lean in the cam. The lean he has on the cam crosses above the peep sight if I'm doing this right. See below photo.

 

[BenchToField]

I wish more people would research like you have here. Quick question - are the above choices with a 31" carbon to carbon arrow like you've stated for the carbon express that is giving you fits? I typically find that arrows should be shorter than draw length. For example, with my 28.5" dl, a 27.5" carbon to carbon arrow w/ outsert puts the broadhead just at the front of the shelf. I ask, because by shortening the arrow, you could possibly go w/ a 300 spine arrow and lose some weight and pickup speed. I try to be in the 430-500 grain range overall with at least 15% FOC, but I don't get hung up on all the numbers. Of the 3 listed above, I'd go with the RIP TKO, but with a shorter arrow, you may be able to move things around a bit. Food for thought.

Thank you. Trying my best to get this right.

Yes. I kept 31 inches as the arrow length. I was always nervous with having a broadhead so close to my hand by cutting my arrows too short. In any case this is something I may need to get over. I will play with shorter arrow lengths in the app and see what I can come up with. Thank you for the direction here. Much appreciated.

 

[Jellymon1]

The tech was probably talking about the lower cam. Your top cam looks to have too much lean in that direction which normally would bring broadheads to the left. Which leads me to think it is a spine issue.

 

[BenchToField]

Thank you. Trying my best to get this right.

Yes. I kept 31 inches as the arrow length. I was always nervous with having a broadhead so close to my hand by cutting my arrows too short. In any case this is something I may need to get over. I will play with shorter arrow lengths in the app and see what I can come up with. Thank you for the direction here. Much appreciated.

If I drop to 100 grain tip and 50 grain insert. I get the below specs on the RIP TKO 300's. Not quite to that 430 TAW beginning range you recommend. Lose 3 lbs KE but pick up 30 FPS. Also added the 4mm Axis 300. Lots to play with. Thanks again.

 

[HCMike]

It's been a frustrating experience to say the least. This is my first year really learning about and tuning for broadheads. I had no idea how off I was. Long story short, I think I narrowed the problem down to the fact that I need stiffer spined arrow. (Am I right?)

Let me quickly get you up to speed. What started as some low right broadhead groups, turned into new strings, bow tuned, and new broadheads. $330 dollars later, I am now able to shoot bullet holes through paper with field points but my broadheads (both brands) are still impacting right. Moving the rest any amount does not fix the issue. See below. In both photos below (2 different groups) the left 2 arrows are field points the right arrow is a broadhead. I repeated this at least two dozen times. Same groupings.

View attachment 433611View attachment 433612

My bow specs:

Hoyt Alphamax 35
IBO: 316
DW: 72
DL: 29.5
Brace Height: 7"
Letoff: 75%
Axle to Axle: 35

Current Arrows: Carbon Express Piledriver Hunter 350

Arrow Length: 31

According to this app that I learned about during my search for a solution, my arrow is way too weak (below left). Unless I cut an inch off the arrow and drop to 62 lbs (below right).


View attachment 433618View attachment 433619

Since killing a bull elk is the goal. Dropping draw weight is not really the direction I want to go. SO...now into the deep hole of learning about arrow building. FOC, grains / lb, total arrow weight, kenetic energy, FPS, energy at 60, fletching design. straight vs. helical. Lots of variables. Lots of opinions. Lot of directions one could go.

My goal. Penetration on elk. No match for whitetails. Groups really well at long distances. As I learn to shoot further and further, I don't run out of sight tape or smoke my arrow on my sight. I'd like to shoot (practice only) at 100 yards. So far I'm still working on my 60 yard groups which are getting better.

I've been messing around with arrow builds on the app. Watching youtube videos. Reading forums. But I'm not sure where to go from here.

Questions:

What should I be focusing on?
What FOC should I shoot for?
Is there a total arrow weight range I should be in?
Any videos, books, or forums I should watch / read?
Any recommendations, thoughts, or advice?

Below are some builds I've been messing with. These have heavy inserts (100-125 grain) and (125 grain) tip. I do have (5) 125 grain montecs. All other broadheads are 100 grain. I'm not opposed to buying heaver heads and components, I just want to feel confident in my setup and get this bow to tune to both broadheads and field points.

View attachment 433627View attachment 433628View attachment 433629

 

[HCMike]

Something simple but worth asking, I noticed your sight has a level. Are you checking for cant as you release? A common reason right handed shooters are always off to the right and not left. Getting the bow perpendicular to ground is almost an un-natural feeling.

 

[BenchToField]

Something simple but worth asking, I noticed your sight has a level. Are you checking for cant as you release? A common reason right handed shooters are always off to the right and not left. Getting the bow perpendicular to ground is almost an un-natural feeling.

Yes. I go through the exact same shot process. Stance, grip, draw, anchor (which includes center of nose very lightly toughing nose button), find the target, center the peep, center the level, pull through the shot.

Tried silverback release, carter convertible both thumb activation and third finger activation. I'm very certain in is not bow cant related. I shot the same groups dozens of times. Broadhead right, field points grouped to the left of the broadhead.

 

[Marble]

If it were me I would cut the arrows to 28.5 " and then paper tune it. Paper will tell you if the arrow is flying straight, if you have good repeatable form. Paper doesn't lie.

You need to get over the fear of that broadhead being in valley of the grip. Even if it falls off the rest you'll be just fine.

After that, if they still fly right of field points and minor rest movements do nothing, than there is something out of whack with the tune on the bow.

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[BenchToField]

If it were me I would cut the arrows to 28.5 " and then paper tune it. Paper will tell you if the arrow is flying straight, if you have good repeatable form. Paper doesn't lie.

You need to get over the fear of that broadhead being in valley of the grip. Even if it falls off the rest you'll be just fine.

After that, if they still fly right of field points and minor rest movements do nothing, than there is something out of whack with the tune on the bow.

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This would certainly be the cheapest option. If I cut to 28.5 and drop DW to 67. They should tune.

 

[s20055]

Are the broadhead blades aligned with your fletching? Have you tried nock-tuning…manually twisting the nock to change which fletch is being used for the cock vane and then repeating the shot to see if it improves?


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[s20055]

Also, dumb question here…but did you select the gear icon in the lower left and configure the settings for Bow, Arrow, String, etc? The Application Setup.


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[Billy Goat]

My suggestion would be to get some 300 spine shafts.

Going to want them shorter, but if your draw length is 29.5, then there's no reason to have them at 31. 29.5 is going to be roughly the back (front in actuality) of the riser. I'm currently shooting 26.5" on a 28.9" draw.


Don't get lost in FOC. You want to have 10% at minimum, anything past 15% doesn't seem to help a bit.

For elk hunting the way I hunt, I'd want more speed than the 255. So personally I'd give up some weight to get to around 270 fps at the minimum. I have plenty of confidence in what I need for adequate penetration, I think with your specs you would be fine from 425-475gr assuming you get the tuning figured out and have good arrow flight.

 

[BenchToField]

Are the broadhead blades aligned with your fletching? Have you tried nock-tuning…manually twisting the nock to change which fletch is being used for the cock vane and then repeating the shot to see if it improves?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, they are aligned. Yes, I did try nock tuning. Same results. Didn't change cock vane.

 

[BenchToField]

Also, dumb question here…but did you select the gear icon in the lower left and configure the settings for Bow, Arrow, String, etc? The Application Setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did make those adjustments and am sure to use them for each arrow.

 

[Billy Goat]

If you can get comfortable with it, those arrows should work if you get them cut down to 28-28.5, just to save you some money instead of new shafts.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I went down a deep arrow design hole a couple of years ago, with the same design objective as you. Ultimately I decided to go with a build that needed the fewest after market components to get the front end coverage/support that I wanted (metal sandwiching carbon) without being super heavy (axis). That led me to gold tip pierce platinum, which have worked great 100% stock without having to buy components from 2-4 manufacturers to get what I want.

It definitely looks like your current arrows are weak spined. The .204 inside diameter arrows are a great design in theory, but only easton offers hiit standard, axis 5mm are heavy, and half outs are not great from the other manufacturers, forcing you to buy hiits from easton or iron will, plus collars from ethics or iron will. It's a hassle.

Gold tip has, imo, the best factory 4mm design since it offers full support to the carbon. I've put one broadside through an elk, and another lengthwise through a calf. My arrows are 450 gr including a 100 gr broadhead. Haven't chronoed, but I shoot the 297 tape on my sight. Just whacked another groundhog at 73 yards with one this evening.

 

[Billy Goat]

I went down a deep arrow design hole a couple of years ago, with the same design objective as you. Ultimately I decided to go with a build that needed the fewest after market components to get the front end coverage/support that I wanted (metal sandwiching carbon) without being super heavy (axis). That led me to gold tip pierce platinum, which have worked great 100% stock without having to buy components from 2-4 manufacturers to get what I want.

It definitely looks like your current arrows are weak spined. The .204 inside diameter arrows are a great design in theory, but only easton offers hiit standard, axis 5mm are heavy, and half outs are not great from the other manufacturers, forcing you to buy hiits from easton or iron will, plus collars from ethics or iron will. It's a hassle.

Gold tip has, imo, the best factory 4mm design since it offers full support to the carbon. I've put one broadside through an elk, and another lengthwise through a calf. My arrows are 450 gr including a 100 gr broadhead. Haven't chronoed, but I shoot the 297 tape on my sight. Just whacked another groundhog at 73 yards with one this evening.

I have seen those aluminum halfouts bend on impact. A friend shot a cow broadside at 30ish yards and the arrow didn't exit. Recovered the broken shaft and the aluminum halfout had bent. I don't think it can take the leverage that you can encounter with a longer broadhead.

Just saying I have seen a weak point with them. I personally wouldn't use them, if you are confident with them, proced.