Broadheads not on target

Brendan

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Turn down limb bolts and rule out fletching contact first. Gold Tip advice is spot on, lf it's not working you have something else going on
 
OP
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Feb 4, 2021
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Can anyone provide a link that explains the left/right tears for under spined/over spinded arrows. I cannot find any literature on it and besides that’s just what everyone says….
 

Zac

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Dec 1, 2018
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Why is your arrow so long? You can probably easily correct this issue by gradually cutting down your shaft. Your bare shafts hitting to the right confirm that you are weak. If moving your rest to the right did not fix the problem then you are going to have to use your top hats to shim your cams to the left.
 
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Why is your arrow so long? You can probably easily correct this issue by gradually cutting down your shaft. Your bare shafts hitting to the right confirm that you are weak. If moving your rest to the right did not fix the problem then you are going to have to use your top hats to shim your cams to the left.
Can you provide literature why a weak spined arrow tears the way it does?
 

Zac

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No I can explain it though. The proper spined arrow is supposed to fit in your center shot parameters by about a 16th either side. If your point is protruding too far to the left, then the tip will overcompensate to the right in order to stay in line with the power stroke of the string. Same thing applies if your tip starts too far to the right. The point will overcompensate to the left in order to stay in front of the power stroke. You can manipulate your rest in the direction of the overcompensated point, or you can move the power stroke, or string behind the nock. If you are unable to stay within your center shot parameters then you must revert to spine manipulation in one of it's varied forms.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
2,233
Location
Missouri
Mathews Vertix
29” draw
75lbs
Victor VAP TKO 300 spine
30.25” throat to threads
15.3 FOC
~598 grain arrows
Victory's website says those shafts are 9.5 gpi. Assuming 30" carbon-to-carbon length, three vanes at 7 gr each, and a 10 gr nock, you'd need 282 gr on the front end to get to 598 gr TAW. Even with 4 vanes, a wrap, and a lighted nock, you'd still need around 250 gr up front to get to your stated TAW. Either way, that's a lot of point weight for an arrow that long at 75 lbs.

IMO you're significantly underspined, which is likely contributing to your tuning troubles. Trimming the arrow down will stiffen the spine, reduce wind drift, and increase FOC. If trimming alone can't sufficiently stiffen the spine, you'll have to reduce point weight, reduce draw weight, or switch to 250 spine.
 
OP
A
Joined
Feb 4, 2021
Messages
49
No I can explain it though. The proper spined arrow is supposed to fit in your center shot parameters by about a 16th either side. If your point is protruding too far to the left, then the tip will overcompensate to the right in order to stay in line with the power stroke of the string. Same thing applies if your tip starts too far to the right. The point will overcompensate to the left in order to stay in front of the power stroke. You can manipulate your rest in the direction of the overcompensated point, or you can move the power stroke, or string behind the nock. If you are unable to stay within your center shot parameters then you must revert to spine manipulation in one of
Victory's website says those shafts are 9.5 gpi. Assuming 30" carbon-to-carbon length, three vanes at 7 gr each, and a 10 gr nock, you'd need 282 gr on the front end to get to 598 gr TAW. Even with 4 vanes, a wrap, and a lighted nock, you'd still need around 250 gr up front to get to your stated TAW. Either way, that's a lot of point weight for an arrow that long at 75 lbs.

IMO you're significantly underspined, which is likely contributing to your tuning troubles. Trimming the arrow down will stiffen the spine, reduce wind drift, and increase FOC. If trimming alone can't sufficiently stiffen the spine, you'll have to reduce point weight, reduce draw weight, or switch to 250 spine.
4 vanes with a
Victory's website says those shafts are 9.5 gpi. Assuming 30" carbon-to-carbon length, three vanes at 7 gr each, and a 10 gr nock, you'd need 282 gr on the front end to get to 598 gr TAW. Even with 4 vanes, a wrap, and a lighted nock, you'd still need around 250 gr up front to get to your stated TAW. Either way, that's a lot of point weight for an arrow that long at 75 lbs.

IMO you're significantly underspined, which is likely contributing to your tuning troubles. Trimming the arrow down will stiffen the spine, reduce wind drift, and increase FOC. If trimming alone can't sufficiently stiffen the spine, you'll have to reduce point weight, reduce draw weight, or switch to 250 spine.
100 gr point
180 grain ethics SS insert/outsert
4 vanes 6.8 each
6 gr wrap
8 gr nock
29” carbon to carbon
plus a bit of glue

When I originally bought these I planned on shooting Victory’s 100 gr insert/outsert setup which would’ve put me right on the cusp of 300/250. But those were impossible to find, so I just upped my FOC with the ethics. I don’t care for aluminum when because of the forces at play here. The other problem is the VAP TKOs only go up to 300…
So, if I increase to 250s I’d go with the VAP SSs, so that’s an additional 38 grains right off the bat, and to keep FOC correct that’s probably an additional 25 grains to the tip.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2021
Messages
55
Last year i had an issue and i know the whole trick on tweaking the rest and its usually worked, well after chasing all around and not getting it to get better then 4 inches apart i went to my buddy who happens to be a pro archer and he checked everything out shot it through paper and everything and he thought the bow is dialed in really well. After digging throigh forumns i found that i was ever so slightly adding pressure with my index knuckle. When i focused on a proper grip they started hitting right on. But id bet you can nudge the rest around if its 10 inches like said above. I just dont see the grip getting brought up much so just throwing it out there
It doesnt take much of a change to your grip to throw fixed blades off at distance. Most "untuneable" bows end up being a grip issue.
 
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Location
Missouri
So, if I increase to 250s I’d go with the VAP SSs, so that’s an additional 38 grains right off the bat, and to keep FOC correct that’s probably an additional 25 grains to the tip.
Getting your spine right is way more important than achieving some arbitrary FOC number. If you cut a VAP SS 250 to 28", reduced your insert weight by 20-30 gr, and left everything else the same, you could keep your TAW right around 600 gr and get 16-17% FOC (which is plenty).

My figuring (and Gold Tip's online calculator) put the FOC of your current arrows well north of the 15.3% FOC you stated earlier, by the way.
 

Davebuech

WKR
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
694
Location
Rocky Mountains (SLV) Colorado
Mathews Vertix
29” draw
75lbs
Victor VAP TKO 300 spine
30.25” throat to threads
15.3 FOC
~598 grain arrows

My sights are 25-35-45-55-65
Pictured is field tips with feathers and their BS partners at 20 yards

I was barely off of target out to 30 so I went back to 40, and was shooting bare shafts way right. I moved my rest to the right (as instructed by the link. Though this seems backwards to me) and it may have helped some but I’m not quite sure. A very slight breeze picked up and I shot two arrows to the right into the dirt and snapped a shaft. Called it quits. Not sure if the slight breeze influenced the bare shaft or why my arrow went to the right even further.
Yeah man, you are under spined for that set up, IMO. Don't know why you wanna shoot such a heavy arrow and poundage but hey, each to their own. Remember, shot placement is KEY!
 

Brendan

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Massachusetts
You are underspined. You need to cut the arrow down, drop point weight, drop poundage, or build a new arrow.

Stop chasing FOC and stop listening to any internet sensation that has you thinking you need to. Target an arrow build with an appropriate spine first, then the weight/speed combo you're looking for second. Buy Pinwheel Software for Archers or Archers Advantage and learn how to use it if needed - it'll save you from making another expensive arrow build mistake.
 
OP
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Feb 4, 2021
Messages
49
You are underspined. You need to cut the arrow down, drop point weight, drop poundage, or build a new arrow.

Stop chasing FOC and stop listening to any internet sensation that has you thinking you need to. Target an arrow build with an appropriate spine first, then the weight/speed combo you're looking for second. Buy Pinwheel Software for Archers or Archers Advantage and learn how to use it if needed - it'll save you from making another expensive arrow build mistake.
Maybe somebody has a moose and griz tag and doesn’t just sit in their deer blind to catch tiny whitetail. Maybe that’s why those arrows are heavy and have FOC.
 

Brendan

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Maybe somebody has a moose and griz tag and doesn’t just sit in their deer blind to catch tiny whitetail. Maybe that’s why those arrows are heavy and have FOC.
That comment proves how much you don't know what you're talking about. Either take the advice you've been given and try to learn something, or keep chasing your tail looking for FOC.

You don't need high FOC, at all, for any species. And you can build a heavy arrow that doesn't have spine issues. I've done it with an 84# bow at a longer draw length than yours and my setup is fine for any animal in North America and right now I'm "only" shooting 74#.
 
OP
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That comment proves how much you don't know what you're talking about. Either take the advice you've been given and try to learn something, or keep chasing your tail looking for FOC.

You don't need high FOC, at all, for any species. And you can build a heavy arrow that doesn't have spine issues. I've done it with an 84# bow at a longer draw length than yours and my setup is fine for any animal in North America and right now I'm "only" shooting 74#.
These are your opinions. The advice is I need to upgrade my arrow spine, move rest, shim, etc. The rest is your opinion. I didn’t ask if there was an asshole looking to talk about their opinions on FOC or not. Last year with 50gr inserts these worked well. This year with 180 not so much. So before you go around offering your bullshit opinion respond to the question asked.
 

5MilesBack

"DADDY"
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Feb 27, 2012
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Colorado Springs
and to keep FOC correct that’s probably an additional 25 grains to the tip.
You could ask 50 people what "correct" FOC is, and get 50 different answers.

For this particular situation, I retract my previous post. You seem to be entering your arrow foray with FOC as your primary focus from the start........and WAY more FOC than you need. That's going to lead you down a rabbit hole that's going to cause all kinds of problems for you........as you're seeing.

For your specs I'd be looking at an arrow somewhere around 500gr end weight with a good BH, and go out and kill stuff. I'm shooting 75lbs at 32 7/8" draw and my 30" arrows only weigh 500gr. Yes, several years ago I built some 300 spine arrows with 280gr up front that weigh 632gr......but I never use them. I can BH tune the bow to those out to 60, but the trajectory is just too much of a rainbow. They'd be fine however for short range hunting.

If it was me, I'd be starting over from scratch......but I never have liked the microdiameter arrows, outserts/halfouts, nor collars.
 

Brendan

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These are your opinions. The advice is I need to upgrade my arrow spine, move rest, shim, etc. The rest is your opinion. I didn’t ask if there was an asshole looking to talk about their opinions on FOC or not. Last year with 50gr inserts these worked well. This year with 180 not so much. So before you go around offering your bullshit opinion respond to the question asked.

Not opinion whatsoever. All solid advice based on testing from professional archers and personal experience.

If you want help - stop being a douche about it. You have all the answers you need in this thread to get a bow tuned and flying perfect. And you can test it with a set of allen wrenches and 10 minutes for free by yourself.

If you're going to get bent out of shape about it go be a Ranch Fairy leg humper. There's a reason he got kicked out of here.
 
Last edited:
OP
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Feb 4, 2021
Messages
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You could ask 50 people what "correct" FOC is, and get 50 different answers.

For this particular situation, I retract my previous post. You seem to be entering your arrow foray with FOC as your primary focus from the start........and WAY more FOC than you need. That's going to lead you down a rabbit hole that's going to cause all kinds of problems for you........as you're seeing.

For your specs I'd be looking at an arrow somewhere around 500gr end weight with a good BH, and go out and kill stuff. I'm shooting 75lbs at 32 7/8" draw and my 30" arrows only weigh 500gr. Yes, several years ago I built some 300 spine arrows with 280gr up front that weigh 632gr......but I never use them. I can BH tune the bow to those out to 60, but the trajectory is just too much of a rainbow. They'd be fine however for short range hunting.

If it was me, I'd be starting over from scratch......but I never have liked the microdiameter arrows, outserts/halfouts, nor collars.
You’re right about the EFOC vs FOC. I am not on the extreme FOC end of this. Last year when I built these for elk I was using the 50gr inserts and was right around 11%, this year I’m building a different setup for a different purpose, and had blundered on about my spine being under spined
 
OP
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Feb 4, 2021
Messages
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Not opinion whatsoever. All solid advice based on testing from professional archers and personal experience.

If you want help - stop being a douche about it. You have all the answers you need in this thread to get a bow tuned and flying perfect. And you can test it with a set of allen wrenches and 10 minutes for free by yourself.

If you're going to get bent out of shape about it go be a Ranch Fairy leg humper. There's a reason he got kicked out of here.
Bye
 

5MilesBack

"DADDY"
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Feb 27, 2012
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I get wicked adrenaline dumps when those bulls are coming at me, and I need no other factors to help me miss
I pick a grip that I can replicate in all situations (standing on flat ground, the steeps, up, down, sidehill, adrenaline, calm, leaning around a tree, etc) and I use and tune to that grip for all shooting. It's most likely not a grip that guys standing on the line at Vegas are going to use, but I'm rarely on flat ground when chasing elk.

I shot a moose last year and I wouldn't hesitate using my setup on a grizzly.

If you want advice, then don't be a jerkwad about it. If you're going to be a jerkwad, then figure it all out on your own.
 
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