BS violation today

[Rich M]

Waking by it only in and of itself? Maybe not.

Waking by it on a private lease of which you are a member, admitting knowledge of it being illegal, doing nothing other than continuing to hunt, and choosing to then walk back by it again continuing to hunt.

So you've not been on a lease before have you? You paid say $1,500 to hunt on the lease and take your kid - maybe drove 2-3-5 hours to get there to hunt and are gonna tuck tail and not hunt, go back home cause some guy set up a feeder by the trail in? Get real.

There aint much you can do about the feeder on private property - it's not yours. Moving it is the same as stealing it. I mean, we're being sticklers for "the law" aren't we?

The feeder in itself isn't illegal - it is just sitting there. If it was being used to hunt turkeys, then yes. We don't have that information. And someone evidently reported it - the LEOs set up a sting there.

Far as we can tell, they weren't doing anything wrong - so why wouldn't they walk by it? Here comes Barny Fife declaring that you guys are illegal cause of this here feeder here.

This is where the regulation/law could/should be applied but it does not help the hunter or LEO know what is right or wrong - "any distance". That's a load of crap.

Barney Fife doesn't help either - he could have defined what he feels is a safe distance for hunting with the feeder present - if the owner won't move it.

So this ultimately leaves the hunter in the same state of unknown and at the mercy of the mood of LEO. Simple - BS.

 

[sndmn11]

So you've not been on a lease before have you? You paid say $1,500 to hunt on the lease and take your kid - maybe drove 2-3-5 hours to get there to hunt and are gonna tuck tail and not hunt, go back home cause some guy set up a feeder by the trail in? Get real.

There aint much you can do about the feeder on private property - it's not yours. Moving it is the same as stealing it. I mean, we're being sticklers for "the law" aren't we?

The feeder in itself isn't illegal - it is just sitting there. If it was being used to hunt turkeys, then yes. We don't have that information. And someone evidently reported it - the LEOs set up a sting there.

Notifying the authorities that there is a feeder on your HUNTING lease would have gotten a different result. It would have shown that there was no association with the feeder, and that there was no intent to use it as an aid to the hunt, it was just unexpectedly there. Nobody said to go home.

Acknowledging the feeder, acknowledging that it is illegal in turkey season, and then choosing to hunt the area of the feeder is the definition of the illegal act. It doesn't matter who put it there. By his own admission he knew it was there and chose to hunt past it and then come back around and hunt past it again. The violator isn't the victim when they have chance after chance to demonstrate that they are choosing not to be in violation. If you come across poaching, the simplest way to not get associated with it or wrapped up in the situation would be to report it immediately.

The dumbfounding part to me is that while he is skirting blame trying to place it on the Wildlife Officers, he has yet to mention attempting to solve the problem of who is baiting turkeys on his private lease. I would sure want to know who.

 

[WCB]

Notifying the authorities that there is a feeder on your HUNTING lease would have gotten a different result. It would have shown that there was no association with the feeder, and that there was no intent to use it as an aid to the hunt, it was just unexpectedly there. Nobody said to go home.

Acknowledging the feeder, acknowledging that it is illegal in turkey season, and then choosing to hunt the area of the feeder is the definition of the illegal act. It doesn't matter who put it there. By his own admission he knew it was there and chose to hunt past it and then come back around and hunt past it again. The violator isn't the victim when they have chance after chance to demonstrate that they are choosing not to be in violation. If you come across poaching, the simplest way to not get associated with it or wrapped up in the situation would be to report it immediately.

The dumbfounding part to me is that while he is skirting blame trying to place it on the Wildlife Officers, he has yet to mention attempting to solve the problem of who is baiting turkeys on his private lease. I would sure want to know who.

You obviously aren't paying attention. He knows there are feeders on the property for deer season. As he stated having a feeder standing in the woods is not a violation. Since they were used for deer season and not illegal AND, as he stated prior, nobody else Turkey hunts except for one other guy who does not bait. He would not reasonably expect that any of the feeders would be active.

Now I am not saying he is telling the whole truth or not...but if you know there are feeders around but no reason to believe any would still be active would you walk the entire 1800 acres (as he states) and check every single feeder and flip every leaf over to check for even a single piece of corn or grain on the ground? Was the feeder on the trail as in they had to walk around it and cross right where the feed would be thrown? or was it on the trail as in a few yards away where you would have to intentionally travel to the feeder to check if it is active or not. I

I also agree that the lease holders should have a meeting and set clear rules. It is very similar to some state laws on tagging an animal. Some are immediately upon kill. Well if I shoot and the deer drops but I don't know that...walk up to check for blood and see the deer there and punch my tag. Am I now in violation because it wasn't immediately upon killing the animal and the game warden saw the whole thing from another angle?

 

[sndmn11]

You obviously aren't paying attention. He knows there are feeders on the property for deer season. As he stated having a feeder standing in the woods is not a violation. Since they were used for deer season and not illegal AND, as he stated prior, nobody else Turkey hunts except for one other guy who does not bait. He would not reasonably expect that any of the feeders would be active.

Now I am not saying he is telling the whole truth or not...but if you know there are feeders around but no reason to believe any would still be active would you walk the entire 1800 acres (as he states) and check every single feeder and flip every leaf over to check for even a single piece of corn or grain on the ground? Was the feeder on the trail as in they had to walk around it and cross right where the feed would be thrown? or was it on the trail as in a few yards away where you would have to intentionally travel to the feeder to check if it is active or not. I

I also agree that the lease holders should have a meeting and set clear rules. It is very similar to some state laws on tagging an animal. Some are immediately upon kill. Well if I shoot and the deer drops but I don't know that...walk up to check for blood and see the deer there and punch my tag. Am I now in violation because it wasn't immediately upon killing the animal and the game warden saw the whole thing from another angle?

His inaction constitutes intent. He was aware of the feeders, chose to do nothing about them even though he admits he knew baiting turkey was illegal, and then chose to hunt around the feeder by walking by it twice.

If he wanted to be legal, he would have made an effort to do so. There are numerous ways he could have done so, but again, he chose to do absolutely nothing to ensure a legal hunt. In any criminal case actions and inactions demonstrate intent. A person who wants to hunt within the bounds of the law, stops when they recognize they have crossed the line or are about to. They don't continue on, and then choose to repeat the same action unless they don't think they will get caught or don't care if they get caught.

 

[Throwin Darts]

His inaction constitutes intent. He was aware of the feeders, chose to do nothing about them even though he admits he knew baiting turkey was illegal, and then chose to hunt around the feeder by walking by it twice.

If he wanted to be legal, he would have made an effort to do so. There are numerous ways he could have done so, but again, he chose to do absolutely nothing to ensure a legal hunt. In any criminal case actions and inactions demonstrate intent. A person who wants to hunt within the bounds of the law, stops when they recognize they have crossed the line or are about to. They don't continue on, and then choose to repeat the same action unless they don't think they will get caught or don't care if they get caught.

There is nothing illegal with the feeder being there. Being on private property with a feeder slinging corn isn't illegal. He didn't "choose to do nothing about them" because there was nothing to do about them.

He knows baiting turkeys is illegal, which he states. He wasn't hunting over the feeder and hadn't done any baiting.

I think you're missing the point that being on a property with a feeder during turkey season is not illegal. Hunting over the bait is illegal, which the OP argues he was not doing.

I have 10 corn feeders on my property. I better call the game warden and turn myself in.

 

[sndmn11]

There is nothing illegal with the feeder being there. Being on private property with a feeder slinging corn isn't illegal. He didn't "choose to do nothing about them" because there was nothing to do about them.

He knows baiting turkeys is illegal, which he states. He wasn't hunting over the feeder and hadn't done any baiting.

I think you're missing the point that being on a property with a feeder during turkey season is not illegal. Hunting over the bait is illegal, which the OP argues he was not doing.

I have 10 corn feeders on my property. I better call the game warden and turn myself in.

Consuming alcohol to the point of intoxication isn't illegal, and driving isn't illegal when done as separate acts. Combine the two and it is illegal, just like feeding the turkeys in and of itself is fine, and hunting is fine, but doing the two together is illegal.

It makes no difference if he was hunting "over" the bait if the AR excerpts are correct. It seems like AR goes to great lengths to cover what can be construed as baiting, and seems easy enough to find those writings that they were posted on here quickly.

At least we are in agreement that he knew and knows baiting turkeys is illegal. There was plenty he could have done to prevent his actions being interpreted as illegal, not just on that day but weeks prior. He chose to take his son hunting by a feeder at least two times in a morning, there is no way around that fact.

 

[rayporter]

feeding in Arkansas is illegal right now. deer season has ended. the mere fact that it had feed in it is a violation. and he went to an area that was being fed, hence, whether he knew before hand or not makes it awful hard to talk your way out of.

the member feeding should be kicked out of the lease.

 

[Throwin Darts]

feeding in Arkansas is illegal right now. deer season has ended. the mere fact that it had feed in it is a violation. and he went to an area that was being fed, hence, whether he knew before hand or not makes it awful hard to talk your way out of.

the member feeding should be kicked out of the lease.

According to Arkansas Game and Fish "Hunters may bait and feed deer on private land outside of the CWD Management Zone year-round"

Deer-specific Hunting Regulations • Arkansas Game & Fish Commission

Get the latest information on Deer-specific Hunting Regulations. Plus, explore all of AGFC.com for all things hunting, fishing, and wildlife in Arkansas.

www.agfc.com

 

[rayporter]

thats true!

i hunt the zone!

 

[FLS]

The officers new it was there. Likely they know who is doing the baiting too. That’s why you only got a warning, not a citation. Move on. Find the offending party and kick them off the lease.

 

[MR5X5]

Wardens have the ability to apply discretion. IMHO they should have in this case....
Hope the judge tosses it for you.

 

[LongWayAround]

The officers new it was there. Likely they know who is doing the baiting too. That’s why you only got a warning, not a citation. Move on. Find the offending party and kick them off the lease.

He said he got both a warning and a citation. His son only got a warning.

 

[30338]

Law should specify an exact distance from the feeder for a violation. Leaving it for interpretation is a bad idea. Whatever that distance is, put it in writing and eliminate the grey area. If I had driven 3 hours to a lease and there was one feeder on 1800 acres with corn it, guess I'd turn around and go home. Tell the kid to play some video games or something.

I've been around some hyper aggressive agents in the last 5 years, I now say they can all kiss my ass. I've received no citations but they go out of their way to be dicks in the areas I hunt. I make sure I follow every rule precisely and with the regulation books looking like phone books, you had better read them thoroughly and quiz others who are hunting with you.

Forget to sign your license? You're a poacher. Forget to unload you magazine while on a atv with a cased gun? You're a poacher. Forget to leave sex on quarter? You're a poacher. Pay very close attention to the laundry list of rules, or you're a poacher. Maybe these are washed out IRS agents lol. No idea but the current crop in CO are special. Sounds like the same for the OP.

 

[FLS]

He said he got both a warning and a citation. His son only got a warnin

You’re right. I read right over that. If I thought I was truely in the right I would send a certified letter to their supervisor explaining my side of the story and request a jury trial. I had an issue with a belligerent local GW. No violation, the guy was just an asshole with a badge and we butted heads a couple of times. My wife’s grandfather was a retired GW and suggested that course of action. The certified letter has to be signed for and the issue addressed. You better be on the right side of the law, cause you will definitely be on their radar going foreward.

 

[go4thegusto]

The MAN wins in the field.
Years ago I had my son on his first pheasant hunt. Two unusual things occurred. First it had hailed and wiped out the nests so the birds renested. There were a lot of immature birds around so we would hold off on shots too young to ID roosters. Second we jumped some quail for the first time in that area. We checked the regs and they were legal. Back out in the same area a very small bird jumped up and all the adults yelled "quail" . My young son made a great shot. Retrieving the bird we saw it was a very young pheasant. There were 1/8 inch spurs indicating a rooster. Wanting to show my son ethics we congratulated him and put it in the bag also deciding no more quail shots since a hen could be shot mistakenly.
Later that day sitting on the tailgate having lunch we were checked by a senior warden and a trainee. He made a bold assertion about the "hen" we had shot. I convinced him to step aside and fully explained the situation with my son and also the fact hens don't have spurs. Not wanting to back down to his trainee he wrote us up for a hen. Pre-google days or I could have called him out. This was out of state so I was not going back to court so paid fine. Still regret not writing some letters.
Sorry to make this about me but another example of warden over-reach when common sense works best. Both of these situations they could have professionally used it to train the boys sportsmanship and not written a citation IMO.

 

[Rob5589]

Law should specify an exact distance from the feeder for a violation. Leaving it for interpretation is a bad idea. Whatever that distance is, put it in writing and eliminate the grey area. If I had driven 3 hours to a lease and there was one feeder on 1800 acres with corn it, guess I'd turn around and go home. Tell the kid to play some video games or something.

I've been around some hyper aggressive agents in the last 5 years, I now say they can all kiss my ass. I've received no citations but they go out of their way to be dicks in the areas I hunt. I make sure I follow every rule precisely and with the regulation books looking like phone books, you had better read them thoroughly and quiz others who are hunting with you.

Forget to sign your license? You're a poacher. Forget to unload you magazine while on a atv with a cased gun? You're a poacher. Forget to leave sex on quarter? You're a poacher. Pay very close attention to the laundry list of rules, or you're a poacher. Maybe these are washed out IRS agents lol. No idea but the current crop in CO are special. Sounds like the same for the OP.

Not directed at you specifically but yes, there are a lot of rules to follow. And we are all responsible to know them. Wardens no longer are "good ole boys" from town that love to hunt and fish. They are law enforcement officers there to do a job. Hell, I'd bet money some have no interest in hunting or fishing at all. Regardless, do we want the laws/regs enforced or not?

 

[mtwarden]

I knew a guy who got a $2000.00 fine because he didn't dot the i on his signature of his license; it's a wonder he didn't lose his truck

 

[Lowg08]

I can sympathize. I spent 10,000 and a3 day jury trial over a bear that I wasn’t even within a 3 hr drive of. Half a state away and it still went to deliberation.

 

[slvrslngr]

Regardless of intent, this should have merely come down to it being a teachable moment for the OP and his son. Writing a citation was an overreach IMO, especially since they didn’t kill a turkey on the day in question. The officers didn’t need to cite anyone. The law sounds intentionally vague, maybe for good reason but this instance is one that some discretion should have been exercised.

I was contacted by WDFW Leo’s while fishing Puget Sound one day. They checked my hook as all hooks must be barbless there, regardless of species being targeted. I had neglected to pinch the barb as I was bottom fishing and assumed the barbless rule was for salmon only. The rule is very clear in the regs, it was 100% my fault that I didn’t understand the regs. The officer didn’t cite me though he was absolutely within his rights too, I went home with a warning. Lesson learned. My point is, instead taking a hard line, he exercised discretion and used the interaction as a teachable moment.

OP, good luck in court, I think you’re doing the right thing by fighting this.

 

[Reburn]

There is quite a few things going on here.

#1 The reg appears to be written to forbid people from hunting over bait (ie shooting them eating corn under the feeder) AND baiting an area to keep the birds localized. Thats why there is not a named out specified distance. Running a corn feeder in the middle of 1800 acres to keep the birds around is the same as shooting them under the feeder. Which is what the OP accused of doing.

By putting a specifc distance say 0.5 miles on it they could and would be impairing a neighbors property. At that point they would be fighting an uphill battle as it could be fought in court everytime that I dont control my neighbor and I had no knowledge of him baiting. How could I be reasonably responsible for calling my neighbor before I go hunting to see if HE is feeding corn to deer in the off season. Also what would it take for an animal rights activist or pissed off blood fued neighbor to corn the road in front of your lease every 9 days during turkey season basically making your lease unusable. Further more it can be argued that you are a member of a hunting club and yall are there to hunt. Therefore with intent its yall responsibility as a club to know the regs and follow them as a club / group. I would personally tell you to pay the fine and the member that had the feeder up with corn or the club as a whole is responsible for the ticket cost or lease refund as your own club impaired your hunting and cost you a ticket not the game warden.