Bulls with Cows

[trophyhill]

With archery elk almost on top of us, there are many scenarios we could or will be faced with. This is just one more. I'm always looking at these scenarios as a solo hunter, because that's what I do the most of. It's like being a single parent sometimes. You have to do the work of 2. But you may be hunting with a buddy or maybe even 3.

That's only part of why "there is more than 1 way to skin an elk".

So you get to your calling spot before shooting light, and start your day with a call. Again I want my sounds traveling far and wide. A bull sounds off. You call again, now he's further away, but answers back. Maybe he sounds off on his own talking to his herd. Again, that's up to you to decipher. Another thing to remember. "Not all situations/encounters are created equal" as Paul Medel aka Elknut1 once told me. So you have to know by what the elk is telling you, how you need to play any given opportunity at any given time, sometimes in the blink of an eye, or the time it takes to raise your bow, draw, and release. And sometimes you have a bit more time.

But anyhow, you've deduced that a bull has cows, and he's heading to his bedroom in the elkwoods, and he's not waiting for you, nor is he turning around. But he is staying vocal as he's taking his ladies to bed. Are you going to let this bull walk out of your life forever? Or are you going to kill him? We've all been here, or will be. And we know that elk can cover some ground

 

[5MilesBack]

But anyhow, you've deduced that a bull has cows, and he's heading to his bedroom in the elkwoods, and he's not waiting for you, nor is he turning around. But he is staying vocal as he's taking his ladies to bed. Are you going to let this bull walk out of your life forever?

No, I'm literally running in after him regardless how many ridges I have to run up and down. He's the only thing going, and he has cows. That's good enough for me. Since he's letting me know where he is, I should have a good idea when I get close enough to plan my attack. "This" is elk hunting! I would say that most of the bulls I call to have cows.

 

[trophyhill]

No, I'm literally running in after him regardless how many ridges I have to run up and down. He's the only thing going, and he has cows. That's good enough for me. Since he's letting me know where he is, I should have a good idea when I get close enough to plan my attack. "This" is elk hunting! I would say that most of the bulls I call to have cows.

So let's add to that a bit, how bout if he goes quiet after he's been sounding off on his own? And you are still quite a ways from where you last heard him? Myself, if I can, I'm gonna try and find the sound he answers to, and keep him vocal. I'd start out with the sound he answered at first light. There's no time like the present, so I want to kill him before he lays down with his ladies if I can. But I want to do it in a way where I'm not throwing the kitchen sink at him and making every sound an elk can make. In other words, I don't want to "overcall" or "overthink".

 

[nphunter]

I honestly believe he is just following the lead cow and chasing cows while they move. Once they settle down and bed down he will come in to a bugle. We constantly deal with scenario, the last two bulls I killed did a similar thing. One we followed for 2 miles and about 3hrs before he finally turned and came in, at that point he was ready. He walked into 10’ straight at me going for my buddy who was 30 yards behind me bugling. Stood and stared a hole in me for what seemed like forever but was probably 3-5 minutes. Finally he walked around me and presented a shot. Not sure how many cows he had. Last fall we spotted my bull in open country chasing a couple cows. By the time we got down to where they were they were all gone. We busted out the bugle, he answered almost every bugle but stayed close to his cows while I snuck in to kill him. I bumped out over 30 cows after killing him.

I’m of the opinion that the cows are the ones pushing out when you approach not the bull. I’ve been 30 yards from bedded cows and nice bull (Didn’t see him at the time). They were bedded in the trail we were still hunting. I screamed as loud as I could on my bugle with almost zero reaction from them for probably 10 minutes. Finally I got our the cow call and after a couple quiet calls the cows all stood up and walked off, followed by a big 6x6 that way laying just above them the whole time. Couldn’t get a shot and it was all vine maple so we couldn’t catch up enough for a shot either. That was a quiet day which we didn’t hear a single elk sound all day.

A lot of times we have blown out cows with cow calls, the only time we will use a cow call anymore is trying to call in lone bulls or dinks to fill the freezer. Where we hunt most shooter bulls have cows.

I’ve done the same thing solo and had shot opportunity’s, it’s much easier with a caller once they start coming.

 

[nphunter]

Most of the time a hot bull will answer if you get close enough to him. We hunt lots of elk so we don’t worry about backing out and waiting, if we have a bull bugling and shut up we still hunt him. Most of the time I feel like they don’t really shut up but get either above you or behind a ridge where you can’t hear them answer. We use our topo’s and look for benches near where we last heard them and get close and bugle. Most of the time we can get back on elk that we lost. Last fall we got within shooting range of 6 different 6 point bulls in the last week of the season all bedded with their cows or moving with them. My hunting partner just couldn’t get a clear shot. We hunt in some very thick cover which is awesome for finding elk but hard to kill them in.

 

[trophyhill]

Good stuff NP! This is a common scenario I've laid out. Let's go ahead and add another bull with cows scenario.

So you've dogged the herd and managed to catch up. In Mike's scenario, he ran up and down and up and down maybe 3 ridges. Now you are on them and they are not bedded. But the herd bull is very agitated and annoyed because there are satellites looking for opportunities, and this herd bull, be it temporary until a bigger bull comes and takes his cows, or he is the full time herd bull because he's the biggest baddest bull in that area, is back and forth keeping his harem together. You can see him pacing, but you don't have the cover to get closer. You are 100 yards from the action. You try calling him your way. He will start toward you, but only comes 10-20 yards then goes back to protect what is his and knows there is another satellite or 3 trying to hook a cow at any opportunities.

How are you going to pull that bull away from his cows? Whether solo or a partner or 2. Again as many before me have said, there's more than one way to skin an elk, and I'm sure this topic has been covered many times. Personally, I am not cow calling in this situation. But I'd like to know what you would do. Maybe you would cow call?

 

[Ucsdryder]

I had this same scenario last year. We bugled back and forth, he came in a few times but never quite far enough, we had raghorns sneaking in the whole time. Finally he moved off and we charged up the hill at him. He was in heavy timber and we were able to get within 30-40 yards and challenged him. He came running to about 2.5 feet. I have a video of him bugling above me as I laid in the fetal position hoping he wouldn’t step on me.

 

[trophyhill]

I had this same scenario last year. We bugled back and forth, he came in a few times but never quite far enough, we had raghorns sneaking in the whole time. Finally he moved off and we charged up the hill at him. He was in heavy timber and we were able to get within 30-40 yards and challenged him. He came running to about 2.5 feet. I have a video of him bugling above me as I laid in the fetal position hoping he wouldn’t step on me.

We'd love to see that video did you end up killing him? Or are you still in the fetal position from that encounter?

 

[Ucsdryder]

I had to cut the video short because the background might give something away. There’s about 30 seconds more. He ended up getting shot in the neck by my buddy at the end of the video. He survived and had his cows herded back up within 5 minutes. Proof that a herd bull isn’t always a 300+” bull. You can hear his cows calling back and forth. I hope every year can be like last year...

 

[trophyhill]

I had to cut the video short because the background might give something away. There’s about 30 seconds more. He ended up getting shot in the neck by my buddy at the end of the video. He survived and had his cows herded back up within 5 minutes. Proof that a herd bull isn’t always a 300+” bull. You can hear his cows calling back and forth. I hope every year can be like last year...

Good stuff! Thanks for the video!

 

[5MilesBack]

How are you going to pull that bull away from his cows?

Call his cows away from him........he'll come.

 

[trophyhill]

Call his cows away from him........he'll come.

Ya know? I have heard that from 2 other great elk killers. Elknut and our mutual friend in CO Springs. Mr Stevens. Now I may have to call you a great elk killer too

For those daring enough to try that, you had better be on top of your calling game

 

[Ucsdryder]

Ya know? I have heard that from 2 other great elk killers. Elknut and our mutual friend in CO Springs. Mr Stevens. Now I may have to call you a great elk killer too

For those daring enough to try that, you had better be on top of your calling game

It can work and I don’t think the callers ability matters as much as the situation and how close you are. From 200 yards even Paul will struggle to get a herd bull to leave his cows. Now put a crappy caller inside 50 and more times than not he’s going to have elk in his face. Especially if he has some idea of what he and the bull are saying to eachother.

 

[trophyhill]

It can work and I don’t think the callers ability matters as much as the situation and how close you are. From 200 yards even Paul will struggle to get a herd bull to leave his cows. Now put a crappy caller inside 50 and more times than not he’s going to have elk in his face. Especially if he has some idea of what he and the bull are saying to eachother.

No doubt you have to know what you're doing, where you're doing it from, and when to do it.

 

[Wapiti1]

Ya know? I have heard that from 2 other great elk killers. Elknut and our mutual friend in CO Springs. Mr Stevens. Now I may have to call you a great elk killer too

For those daring enough to try that, you had better be on top of your calling game

All it takes is one. Get one cow to wander off, and game on. Consider that there is one bull you want, and multiple cows, your odds are better with the cows from a numbers standpoint. I like to play the lost and distressed calf. Momma will come.

In all of this, there is also the option of not calling, which works. An active bull with cows and satellites is in chaos. If the wind is right, you have an advantage. But, I have a hard time not shooting satellites.

Jeremy

 

[trophyhill]

It can work and I don’t think the callers ability matters as much as the situation and how close you are. From 200 yards even Paul will struggle to get a herd bull to leave his cows. Now put a crappy caller inside 50 and more times than not he’s going to have elk in his face. Especially if he has some idea of what he and the bull are saying to eachother.

I'd like to discuss that a little further because you bring up a point about calling cows away at 200 yards, and then talk about getting in tight.

I would say that great callers have a far better shot at pulling that off at 200 yards than someone with little experience calling. So this mystery guy Gregg Stevens who I mentioned earlier and I have talked about this very thing at length. He is one who has pulled off calling the cows away from the bull, and as was eluded too, along came the bull. I'd like to say that I'm very lucky to of had and have Gregg as a friend and mentor. He's as good a caller as there is and competed with the best of the best before there was Corey Jacobson. Guys like Carlton, Berry, Kaboth, Turner, Zarkesian and others.

He and I have talked about calling those cows away from the bull and bringing that bull with them. The one thing he pounded into my head, is the closer you are to a bull in this situation, the better your sounds should be. Elk can spot a phony. He also says you can get away with suspect calling when you are further away. But again, the closer you are, the better your calls should be.

I've taken that to heart and want and strive for my calls to be at my absolute best at all times. I have not personally tried this tactic yet though. Perhaps Paul will chime in on the distance aspect, but I suspect you are probably right about that at 200 yards. Although I will pick Gregg's brain on that and see what the furthest distance he's pulled that off on. I'm sure the terrain and vegetation plays a huge role on distance.

 

[trophyhill]

No, I'm literally running in after him regardless how many ridges I have to run up and down. He's the only thing going, and he has cows. That's good enough for me. Since he's letting me know where he is, I should have a good idea when I get close enough to plan my attack. "This" is elk hunting! I would say that most of the bulls I call to have cows.

Or want to have cows. But yes.....that is definitely "this" is elk hunting!

 

[Marble]

I think choosing the right call, or mating/courting sound, is more important than the sexiness of your bugle or mew.

The right sound, with the right sequence can kill a lot of bulls.

 

[5MilesBack]

The one thing he pounded into my head, is the closer you are to a bull in this situation, the better your sounds should be. Elk can spot a phony. He also says you can get away with suspect calling when you are further away. But again, the closer you are, the better your calls should be.

This I agree with.

It's also kind of comical when those cows literally "come running". They'll just about run you over. Five years ago I was hiking out right near last light because I knew there wasn't enough time to make something happen with that bull and didn't want to bust him out of there in the dark. So as I hiked out I was prospecting a bit as I was retreating. Then I heard a sound to my right and looked up and saw about 15 cows coming over the top of this ridge line in a full run. They ran down that side and started up the other side I was on and I just stopped behind this large cedar. Then suddenly I couldn't hear them anymore and I waited a couple minutes. Then I started poking my head around that tree and there's this cow on the other side of it doing the same thing. As soon as she saw me they all busted.