Campers, Toy Haulers, towing them - school me, please

[TheCougar]

Okay, so this is a huge topic of which I am totally ignorant. I have a hundred questions and many questions I haven’t thought of yet. For you guys who use campers or toy haulers, feel free to drop any and all opinions and experiences on the topics. I’m seriously considering getting a camper or toy hauler for hunting and camping with the family (2 adults, 4 young kids). The camper will rarely if ever be used for prepared sit camping with hook-ups- I don’t want to be near people in the woods. I’d like something with a separate room for my wife and I and a place for the kids to sleep that doesn’t interfere with living in the camper. Ive looked and seen some decent looking 30-35’ campers that sleep 6-7 and weigh around 6500-7000# for less than $30,000. I’ve got a Ram 1500, but I think I would upgrade my truck to something with more towing capacity- Either a 1/2 ton with all the upgrades to tow a heavier camper or break the bank and get a 1 ton. My stream of consciousness questions:

- benefits of a camper vs toy hauler? I need to bring an ATV either in my pickup bed or inside the toy hauler.
- fifth wheel benefits for a toyhauler?
- are some brands better than others? Any brands to stay away from?
- new or used? I hate buying new, but it seems like a used camper could be risky.
- what size is a good balance between functionally/comfort/maneuverability in the woods/cost?
- what features do you recommend and what is a waste of money?
- is there a good place to buy from (dealers, internet), or a good time of year to buy?
- some newer 1/2 ton trucks can tow upwards of 12,000 pounds with all the upgrades and get pretty decent unloaded gas mileage, and are $20k cheaper than a 1 ton. Can I tow a 7000 dry weight trailer, plus passengers, plus hunting gear and and ATV, plus weight for “wet” trailer? Is it a case of yes you can, but it won’t be fun? I’d definitely be under the mad tow rating of the truck, but is pulling a 9000# payload with a 1/2 in the mountains realistic?

Thanks for any input you have - I have zero experience with this stuff. I’ve only ever tent camped and your experiences and opinions will hopefully help me figure out what suits my needs. Happy Thanksgiving!






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[AZ8]

my honest opinion: you need a 3/4 ton minimum.

 

[timberlinehunter]

I am a long time rv-er and second the thought of having a minimum 3/4 truck. Half tons just don’t have the weight or brakes to handle the heaver rv’s. Take a look at the Grand Design fifth wheels and tow haulers.

Another option is to get a fifth wheel and tow a trailer behind it. Give you the best of both worlds.


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[NV HUNTER]

I just bought a weekend Warrior 5th wheel a 3005SL. I got it used at auction for very very cheap. I liked the idea of a toy hauler because we all know we need a sidexside or quad. My wife and daughter will be more comfortable and that means more days in the field with the family.

 

[MuleyFever]

I got into this camper mess a few years ago. I started with an R-pod and an F150 with the 5ltr v8. Awesome setup for camping back in off the main road but short on space. My atv went in the bed of the truck. Towing was good but you could feel the weight.

I up sized to a 30ft bumper pull toy hauler that is 8400bs dry and an F250 Powerstroke. I would not want to tow this trailer with an F150. The weight still can push the truck a bit and in high winds I still get a bit nervous with how much I get pushed around. I would like to upgrade to a 5th wheel for the better towing. Downside is this thing isn't getting off road.

With kids a regular camper would give you the option for the bunkhouse for the kids to be out of the main area. With a toy hauler your kids are sleeping on the bunks with no separation from the main area.

Fifth wheel will give you good room with more storage and better towing but you will have to get a toy hauler unless you want to pull doubles.

Buy used and save the money. Just stick with one no more than a couple years old.

With what you want get one with solar. It will keep the batteries charged for lights and pumps. I would also get a built on gen because you will use it a lot dry camping. Also look at the tank size. With a family you will want good sized water and black/grey tanks.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

"-benefits of a camper vs toy hauler? I need to bring an ATV either in my pickup bed or inside the toy hauler."
Benefits are you can carry your toys inside, cons are you lose living space.

"- fifth wheel benefits for a toyhauler?"
Better living space, tows much better.

"- are some brands better than others? Any brands to stay away from?"
Most any brand that survived the last economic downturn will be a good brand, most all of them have entry level RV's that are...cheap. I would recommend staying away from anything labeled ultra light just due to the construction.

"- new or used? I hate buying new, but it seems like a used camper could be risky."
If you buy used just make sure there are no current leaks, that the previous leaks caused an acceptable amount of damage, and insist on verifying all of the major appliances are in good working order. You can purchase extended warranties that cover most everything (read the fine print) from third parties.

"- what size is a good balance between functionally/comfort/maneuverability in the woods/cost?"
That is wildly dependent.

"- what features do you recommend and what is a waste of money?"
I may need this to be a bit more specific, but one thing that jumps to mind is a 4 seasons package is worth it. There are a lot of features that can be recommended based on how the RV is going to be used that would be worthless if used in another way. Solar is a prime example.

"- is there a good place to buy from (dealers, internet), or a good time of year to buy?"
New is usually the off season, used is any time of the year.

"- some newer 1/2 ton trucks can tow upwards of 12,000 pounds with all the upgrades and get pretty decent unloaded gas mileage, and are $20k cheaper than a 1 ton. Can I tow a 7000 dry weight trailer, plus passengers, plus hunting gear and and ATV, plus weight for “wet” trailer? Is it a case of yes you can, but it won’t be fun? I’d definitely be under the mad tow rating of the truck, but is pulling a 9000# payload with a 1/2 in the mountains realistic? "
I would definitely recommend going up in truck size.

 

[bowtech840]

We have a 35’ bunkhouse (separate room in back for the kids) #5500 and I pull it with a f150 3.5 eco boost. Truck pulls it with ease, Ive only pulled it within 120 miles from home, most of the time within 30 miles. If I was going on long hauls more often I would upgrade to 3/4 ton but for what I do the 1/2 is plenty.


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[PNWGATOR]

RV Consumer Group will give you an idea of how brands are rated. Do your due diligence. The vast majority of units built and sold are ‘cheap’.

 

[wapitibob]

There are a metric ton of poorly built trailers and toy haulers. I find toy haulers to have poor layouts and poor furniture. Look closely at cabinets, trim, etc. Lance makes a solid unit and are priced to reflect it. Trying to park a 30’ plus unit out in the toolies can be a chore.
Good and well built means a heavy unit and that’s going to require a 3/4 ton and some power under the hood. My Nash 17k weighs 4,400 lbs.

 

[Michael54]

Oil and gas is in a downturn at the moment. You can get an extremely good used one practically new for dirt cheap in a lot of those areas that were effected.

If you go big on the camper/toy hauler you need to go big on the pickup truck. Unless you want to constantly be making repairs to your half ton. Check the laws for weights and license requirements for your area. (Don't ask the guy trying to sell it to you the laws) Also the bigger you go the harder its going to be to get off of the beaten path.

 

[Marble]

5th wheel type toy haulers have more ability to have a slide out. The bumper pull toy hauler trailers rarely have slide out.

Power to pull the trailer up and down hills with today's half ton trucks isn't the issue. IME, the heavier trailers end up pushing around the half ton trucks. I dont like pulling trailers with the half tons. I've done both and it's just my opinion.

 

[Headwatermike]

Okay, so this is a huge topic of which I am totally ignorant. I have a hundred questions and many questions I haven’t thought of yet. For you guys who use campers or toy haulers, feel free to drop any and all opinions and experiences on the topics. I’m seriously considering getting a camper or toy hauler for hunting and camping with the family (2 adults, 4 young kids). The camper will rarely if ever be used for prepared sit camping with hook-ups- I don’t want to be near people in the woods. I’d like something with a separate room for my wife and I and a place for the kids to sleep that doesn’t interfere with living in the camper. Ive looked and seen some decent looking 30-35’ campers that sleep 6-7 and weigh around 6500-7000# for less than $30,000. I’ve got a Ram 1500, but I think I would upgrade my truck to something with more towing capacity- Either a 1/2 ton with all the upgrades to tow a heavier camper or break the bank and get a 1 ton. My stream of consciousness questions:

- benefits of a camper vs toy hauler? I need to bring an ATV either in my pickup bed or inside the toy hauler.
- fifth wheel benefits for a toyhauler?
- are some brands better than others? Any brands to stay away from?
- new or used? I hate buying new, but it seems like a used camper could be risky.
- what size is a good balance between functionally/comfort/maneuverability in the woods/cost?
- what features do you recommend and what is a waste of money?
- is there a good place to buy from (dealers, internet), or a good time of year to buy?
- some newer 1/2 ton trucks can tow upwards of 12,000 pounds with all the upgrades and get pretty decent unloaded gas mileage, and are $20k cheaper than a 1 ton. Can I tow a 7000 dry weight trailer, plus passengers, plus hunting gear and and ATV, plus weight for “wet” trailer? Is it a case of yes you can, but it won’t be fun? I’d definitely be under the mad tow rating of the truck, but is pulling a 9000# payload with a 1/2 in the mountains realistic?

Thanks for any input you have - I have zero experience with this stuff. I’ve only ever tent camped and your experiences and opinions will hopefully help me figure out what suits my needs. Happy Thanksgiving!

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You can pull a smaller bumper pull without trouble with a 1/2 ton but with some limitations. You will take longer getting where you are going. If you want a bigger trailer I'd go with a larger truck. Forget about a 5th wheel with a 1/2 ton. You won't need a diesel unless you just can't live without one--gas engines have gotten really good and are cheaper to buy and maintain and diesels get crap mileage anyhow once you're towing anything.

5th wheels are great but are heavy and pull hard. They give you more room but you lose most of your bed space.

Better campers with more features weigh more and cost more. The cheapest, simplest trailers are the lightest generally. Longer, heavier campers are harder to negotiate off-highway as well as gas stations and grocery parking lots. Forget about towing double until you are supremely confident in your towing capabilities. Campers are a great place to buy used--there is no drive train to wear out and the problems are typically obvious on inspection. Learn to grease the bearings or have it done on a used rig. Campers lose a lot of value when you drive them off the lot so if it's not in your budget let someone else take that hit. Also, you will make some mistakes with your first camper be-it on the size, features, or ripping your roof on a tree branch. So buy a cheap one and learn the ropes and then move on.

As far as features--a built-in generator will be a great upgrade for your use. If not, plan on buying one to bring and make it an inverter-type (you can carry on a conversation over one verses the blaring noise of a standard generator). Any external generator should be sized as you need it--a little 2k will run the camper great but you will need at least a 3k or linked smaller ones if you need to run the AC. External is not nearly as convenient. I like to have at least one power vent and slide-outs make a big difference for roominess but add a lot of weight. A large fresh water tank (100 gallons) helps a lot with the family but is rare on smaller units. Every camper should have bunk beds, especially when it comes to kids. If you get one without bunk beds and you're counting on using the dinette table and a fold-out couch they suck to sleep on, especially for adults, and you have to make beds up every night and then take them down every morning. It makes getting up early and having coffee, getting going, etc, without waking up the entire family difficult. If you can find one that has a centrally located furnace it will be more comfortable. Some are located at either end and they simply won't heat the opposite end of the camper. Counter space is always too small so bigger is better.

Toy haulers are the ticket. Super versatile. They typically have a couple of beds that lower down once you unload so you hardly notice when you're set up. I don't know what your storage situation is but before I built my shop I used to winter the dirt bikes in the toy hauler--it acts like a small garage.

Campers, especially the fridge, have a universal capacity to light on fire. Make sure you keep your smoke detector and CO monitors in good service. You don't want your family to wake up dead because some dummy took out the batteries.

Whatever tow vehicle you end up with you will need an electric brake controller. Some come with them stock these days but many don't. Extendable mirrors are a great help too.

 

[BluMtn]

I will throw my 2 cents in. Right up front no matter what anybody tells you, all travel trailers are junk. I spent many years working in the industry and have watched about every brand on the west coast being built and I have not been impressed. How the RV industry makes it money is by building them as fast as possible. They are on an assembly line and I have watched a top of the line 40' fifthwheel be built in less than 2 hrs. Be prepared to work on your RV yourself or have a lot of patience because again no matter what anybody tells you, dealerships suck. Now, knowing that going in will help your decision. RV sales have been wild the last 10 yrs and there are a bunch of different brands out here but in all reality there are only about 10 floorplans. You can only arrange stuff so many ways.

When in comes to Fifthwheel Toyhaulers and woods camping I recommend you get a gooseneck ball hitch rather than a fifthwheel plate. It makes it so much easier to unhook and hook up in off camber situations. The other thing about fifthwheel trailers is you will have to watch out going through the trees because of your over all height. Next you will have to look at, does the fifthwheel have an open floorplan or a garage. This is where it gets tricky because you will need at least a 12' garage if it is not an open floorplan. Something else to consider when looking at Toyhauler fifthwheels with a garage is your living space is going to be very small unless you use the garage. Most toyhaulers will have a small slide either in the seating area or the kitchen, Some will have one on each side.

Bumperpull Toyhaulers are usually an open floor plan. While camping an open floor plan will give you more seating area. A bumperpull also has a lower overall height to help you get around in the trees. I have owned both styles of trailers and I currently have a 34' bumperpull Toyhauler and enjoy it. But I am considering going back to a fifthwheel. Make sure than if you decide to go with a bumperpull that you get a top quality equalizer hitch for it. That will make a huge difference in pulling it.

Now as for as the rest of the important stuff. Since you want to be in the wilds, most toyhaulers will have a generator on board prewired into the RV. As mentioned before I highly recommend solar power on the roof. My RV has a 400 watt solar panel on the roof and I have 2-12 volt deep cycle batteries on the hitch. No matter what you end up buying I recommend at least 2-12 volt deep cycle or if the budget and space allow 4-6 volt deep cycles. When we are dry camping the only time our generator comes on is to make coffee in the morning. Water will be another concern. Our RV has 160 gallons fresh. We don't come anywhere close to needing that much water but I have siphoned off water to help those camping with us because they ran out. Gray and black tanks should equal for your fresh. The black is the one when camping you need to watch because once its full it is hard to get rid of just anywhere. Grey you can run a long hose in the brush and unload it if you need to.

As far as what to pull your RV with, that is the million dollar question. Minimum should be a 3/4 ton, 1 ton better. Gas or diesel, right now gas engines are cheaper to buy, maintain and repair. And I will tell you now both Diesel and gas will get poor fuel economy regardless of what the car salesman tells you. I will give a nod to the diesels if you are pulling in the hills, not for the pulling uphill but for the exhaust brakes going down hill. That is my 2 cents worth.

 

[HntnFsh]

If you go 5th wheel and it has a warranty and convert to a goose neck check the warranty. Some manufacturers wont cover warranty because their trailers aren't designed to withstand the added stress of a gooseneck conversion.

 

[TheCougar]

I will throw my 2 cents in. Right up front no matter what anybody tells you, all travel trailers are junk. I spent many years working in the industry and have watched about every brand on the west coast being built and I have not been impressed. How the RV industry makes it money is by building them as fast as possible. They are on an assembly line and I have watched a top of the line 40' fifthwheel be built in less than 2 hrs. Be prepared to work on your RV yourself or have a lot of patience because again no matter what anybody tells you, dealerships suck. Now, knowing that going in will help your decision. RV sales have been wild the last 10 yrs and there are a bunch of different brands out here but in all reality there are only about 10 floorplans. You can only arrange stuff so many ways.

When in comes to Fifthwheel Toyhaulers and woods camping I recommend you get a gooseneck ball hitch rather than a fifthwheel plate. It makes it so much easier to unhook and hook up in off camber situations. The other thing about fifthwheel trailers is you will have to watch out going through the trees because of your over all height. Next you will have to look at, does the fifthwheel have an open floorplan or a garage. This is where it gets tricky because you will need at least a 12' garage if it is not an open floorplan. Something else to consider when looking at Toyhauler fifthwheels with a garage is your living space is going to be very small unless you use the garage. Most toyhaulers will have a small slide either in the seating area or the kitchen, Some will have one on each side.

Bumperpull Toyhaulers are usually an open floor plan. While camping an open floor plan will give you more seating area. A bumperpull also has a lower overall height to help you get around in the trees. I have owned both styles of trailers and I currently have a 34' bumperpull Toyhauler and enjoy it. But I am considering going back to a fifthwheel. Make sure than if you decide to go with a bumperpull that you get a top quality equalizer hitch for it. That will make a huge difference in pulling it.

Now as for as the rest of the important stuff. Since you want to be in the wilds, most toyhaulers will have a generator on board prewired into the RV. As mentioned before I highly recommend solar power on the roof. My RV has a 400 watt solar panel on the roof and I have 2-12 volt deep cycle batteries on the hitch. No matter what you end up buying I recommend at least 2-12 volt deep cycle or if the budget and space allow 4-6 volt deep cycles. When we are dry camping the only time our generator comes on is to make coffee in the morning. Water will be another concern. Our RV has 160 gallons fresh. We don't come anywhere close to needing that much water but I have siphoned off water to help those camping with us because they ran out. Gray and black tanks should equal for your fresh. The black is the one when camping you need to watch because once its full it is hard to get rid of just anywhere. Grey you can run a long hose in the brush and unload it if you need to.

As far as what to pull your RV with, that is the million dollar question. Minimum should be a 3/4 ton, 1 ton better. Gas or diesel, right now gas engines are cheaper to buy, maintain and repair. And I will tell you now both Diesel and gas will get poor fuel economy regardless of what the car salesman tells you. I will give a nod to the diesels if you are pulling in the hills, not for the pulling uphill but for the exhaust brakes going down hill. That is my 2 cents worth.

Very informative, thank you!

 

[manitou1]

I currently pull a 6k lb camper with my Ram 1500. It is about as much as I would care to pull without upgrading. The 5.7 will do it with ease. The suspension, axles, brakes is where you suffer using a 1/2 ton. If you put an atv in the back of the truck, you will be seriously affecting tongue weight... and will definitely need a bigger truck. For your needs, I would recommnd a toy hauler, gooseneck, and at least a 3/4 ton truck.

 

[tdhanses]

Personally while the 30-35’ lengths are appealing it’ll really limit where you can go. I personally will not go longer then 28’ which will limit your separation from the kids.

I also recommend a minimum of a 3/4 ton, if you don’t get a toy hauler you can fit an atv in the bed and still be within the capacity limits for safe towing.

I agree build quality on all campers is low but if you are at all handy it’s not that big of an issue. Whatever you do only use the warranty for major issues you can’t don’t want to fix, warranty repairs can take forever.

If you buy used make sure everything works and nothing leaks, check for soft spots in the floor (stay away from any with this issue) and make sure everything is sealed on the roof. Any signs of water leaks like delamination on the exterior or interior stay away. Go with 2 30lb LP tanks over 20lb.

Since you’ll mainly be away from hookups get a good 3000+watt inverter generator.

Also always drain the water heater after your done camping or you’ll get a sulfur smell. Some say don’t tow with a full tank of water, I always have without issue. I think guys that tow with partially filled tanks create more issues then full due to water sloshing. Tons of good updates to make so best get on some camper forums.

 

[260madman]

my honest opinion: you need a 3/4 ton minimum.

This is good advice. I’ve done it with a 1/2 ton but both of my 2500s are far better.

 

[260madman]

If you need a controller get a Tekonsha P3 Prodigy. I have it in my 2500 Yukon and I like it better than the factory’s in my 2011 2500.

 

[hodgeman]

Be sure to check your GVWR, with many of today's trucks the rated tow capacity greatly reduces your cargo capacity of the truck once your calculate hitch weight.

35' trailer+ ATV+ plus gear for a family of 6+ 1/2 ton truck just doesn't pencil out at first glance.