Can bullet choice help to prevent meat loss?

[Hschweers]

I'm not an expert in bullet construction, so I'm hoping someone that is can chime in. I hunt SE whitetails where it seems most any hunting bullet will suffice. Shots are close and deer aren't huge. Can bullet choice prevent far side shoulder meat loss without giving up terminal performance?

I.e. will a bonded core vs a monometal bullet help/hurt the meat damage on the off side shoulder? Or other bullet construction
Can expansion types (idk if that's the right term) affect meat loss? (i.e. soft point, hollow point, ballistic tip hollow point)
Can weight of bullet help/hurt meat loss? I'm shooting a 308 - would a 150gr partition cause less meat loss than a 180gr partition? This might be related to energy, but in this example the federal 150gr partition at 100y carries 2259 ft/lbs and the 180gr partition at 100y carries 2278 ft/lbs - basically identical.

I know the easy answer is don't hit the shoulder if you don't want meat loss, but stuff happens. I'm just looking for a way to minimize unnecessary meat loss since most any bullet will work for this situation. The answer might be that at 100y a 308 is just a lot of umph for a 140lb deer, and to decrease meat loss I should step down to something smaller.

Thanks!

 

[silverbullet555]

Bullet selection can absolutely impact meat loss. The challenge is selecting the bullet that will both perform well and not blow out the meat. The tough of a bullet and when you don't hit the shoulder, it pencils. Stepping down is an option, but I don't know that it is going to get you what you want. At 100 yards, I'd probably stay with what you have.

I can't guide you beyond that, but I'd probably look to a 150gr or similar and try some different ones out keeping in mind that a bullet that expands quicker should carry less energy to the other side as it dissipates the energy inside the animal.

 

[Hschweers]

Bullet selection can absolutely impact meat loss. The challenge is selecting the bullet that will both perform well and not blow out the meat. The tough of a bullet and when you don't hit the shoulder, it pencils. Stepping down is an option, but I don't know that it is going to get you what you want. At 100 yards, I'd probably stay with what you have.

I can't guide you beyond that, but I'd probably look to a 150gr or similar and try some different ones out keeping in mind that a bullet that expands quicker should carry less energy to the other side as it dissipates the energy inside the animal.

Appreciate it! I actually used the 175gr Terminal Ascent last year. They shoot great out of my gun and both deer I killed last year traveled less than 40y. Good enough for me. However, the off side shoulder was destroyed on the first one that I shot further forward than the second one. I got to thinking, and the TA is probably way overkill for small whitetails. I decided I would switch to a soft point bullet for this season - ideally the 150gr partition. The federal loaded 150's don't shoot out of my gun. The 180's shoot well, but I liked the idea of a 150 for my purposes (all the more reason to start reloading). Now I can't decide if I go with something simple like the 150gr fusion or corelokt (both shoot well for me), or stick with a little higher end bullet and run the 180 partition. I know they'll all kill, which is why I have shifted my focus to minimizing meat loss.

 

[xsn10s]

I know the easy answer is don't hit the shoulder if you don't want meat loss, but stuff happens. I'm just looking for a way to minimize unnecessary meat loss since most any bullet will work for this situation. The answer might be that at 100y a 308 is just a lot of umph for a 140lb deer, and to decrease meat loss I should step down to something smaller.

I shot my Texas WT at 75 yds with 168 gr BT out of a 308 Win in the shoulder with some meat loss, but not huge. All the other deer were shot with 30-06 and bullets ranging from 165 AB's to 180 Partitions but perfect broadside and no meat loss. My friends used 125 BT's in Arkansas and called them "killer greens" out of a 30-30 AI. They reported DRT with broadside shots. YMMV.

 

[Outdoorsman12b]

Your issue is not really bullet selection it’s shot selection. On a whitetail pretty much anything is going to stop offside or pass through. Wait for an strong broadsided presentation and shoot behind the front shoulder with a meat saver shot. A monometal will definitely help reduce the meat loss compared to a lead bullet that fragments. Your still going to get meat loss on a shoulder shot with a mono due to blood shot though.

 

[LookinforDirt]

I would not overthink this one at all. 100 yards on average on deer…Hornady Interlock Spire Point, Speer Hot-Cor, Core-Lokt or the equivalent. 150 grain is fine. Any bullet in the shoulder is going to mess up meat. But the ELD-X, hybrid target/hunting, made for long range, high bc exploding bullets (e.g terminal ascent) will do more. I hit a deer in the spine with an FTX 160gr and it looked like a small bomb went off. A Partition would be fine. But will provide you no extra benefit. Save yourself .70 cents a bullet and shoot something as and more effective than anything out there. When I hunt woods or expect shots under 200 yards, I carry a model 94 .307 AE with 180gr Interlok FN bullets.

 

[xsn10s]

Can weight of bullet help/hurt meat loss? I'm shooting a 308 - would a 150gr partition cause less meat loss than a 180gr partition? This might be related to energy, but in this example the federal 150gr partition at 100y carries 2259 ft/lbs and the 180gr partition at 100y carries 2278 ft/lbs - basically identical.

The velocity might make a difference here on meat loss. Partitions are designed to expand quickly even at lower than 1800 fps. The 150 PT coming out of a 308 Win will be close to 2900 fps or more at the muzzle. Federal Premium lists their ammo coming out at 2570 fps. I haven't shot bucks in the shoulder with the 180 PT but the broadside shot had min bloodshot at the broadside entry hole.

 

[ChrisAU]

I quit shooting ELD-X's in my 6.5 PRC just because of meat loss. Much prefer an accubond. I'll dig up a pic in a minute.

 

[Rich M]

This is my take - .308 is a great cartridge

A partition has a lot of energy dump on impact and bloodies things up a bit. Don't use a partition out of a .308 for these southern deer - no need.

It seems that you have a couple diff options - slow your bullet down. A 3,000 fps impact will make a bigger mess than a 2,500 fps impact.

Shoot a tougher bullet that takes more energy to expand. I shoot 150 gr out of 3006 at 2900 fps, sierra pro hunter - it will mess up a shoulder. A bonded bullet at a slower speed might give less mess on the far shoulder.

Shoot a heavier bullet.

Shot placement - I hunt FL swamps and know what thick cover is like, dropping deer DRT is better than tracking in the jungle. I have a 350 Legend and love it - only 2 deer with it and full penetration with 165 gr each time - it is not a DRT cartridge IMO. I'm actually thinking of trying 180 gr .357 XTP HP bullets and sizing them down to .356 for use in the Legend to facilitate less tracking. Also shoot a .357 mag rifle and with XTP flat points, it flattens deer, lots of energy dump and 13 out of 14 DRT. Prefer Legend to have an extra 100 yds of range.

So - me in your shoes. I would reload a slower, possibly heavier bullet. A bonded 180 would definitely punch thru and if you toe the slow line, will get less expansion which is less energy dump which is less blood shot meat. More like shooting a solid bullet with a big metaplat (flat front) to inflict damage.

If you step it up and use a faster expanding bullet and shoot ribs only, will do a severe/major energy dump, bloody up much of the deer's on-side and most likely DRT.

There is a post on here somewhere about choosing a .243 bullet and Formilosis (spelling) posts a bunch of pictures that show the damage from diff bullets - might be worth a peek.

 

[ChrisAU]

90lb whitetail doe at about 270 yards, entry side, caught a rib and did this. Again, this is entry side. Had a similar experience on another. No more ELD-X if I plan on eating em. Now for yotes and hogs in my 6mm ARC and 6mm CM sure they are fine.

 

[Soilguy115]

My experience is that think the copper monoliths like Barnes have the least meat damage.


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[Pickettpuncher]

Stay off the shoulders and shoot a bonded bullet would be my suggestion.

 

[Hschweers]

90lb whitetail doe at about 270 yards, entry side, caught a rib and did this. Again, this is entry side. Had a similar experience on another. No more ELD-X if I plan on eating em. Now for yotes and hogs in my 6mm ARC and 6mm CM sure they are fine.

View attachment 408420

I've seen this about ELD-X/M and for that reason have never even considered them. Also know of people having similar explosive effects of the SST at close ranges - another one I've avoided.

 

[Hschweers]

My experience is that think the copper monoliths like Barnes have the least meat damage.


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Stay off the shoulders and shoot a bonded bullet would be my suggestion.

This, while partially conflicting, is what I'm looking for. The monometals in my mind (probably wrong) require ridiculous speeds to properly expand, which has steered me away from them as I don't see the .308 as a hot cartridge. I have flirted with the 130gr TTSX at an advertised 3100 MV.

 

[hodgeman]

You're on the right track-

Meat damage is a factor of bullet construction, impact velocity, and shot placement. Think of it like a triangle, you can't change one leg without changing the other two.

I tend to shoot heavier for caliber bonded bullets at medium speeds and I tend to stay of shoulders if possible.

The easiest thing with a .308 is 180s broadside at the ranges you're talking about.

 

[Soilguy115]

This, while partially conflicting, is what I'm looking for. The monometals in my mind (probably wrong) require ridiculous speeds to properly expand, which has steered me away from them as I don't see the .308 as a hot cartridge. I have flirted with the 130gr TTSX at an advertised 3100 MV.

My go to load is a 30-06 loaded with the 168 Barnes ttsx at around 2850 muzzle velocity. I’ve never had an issue with expansion. I believe the main benefit of the monoliths in terms of meat damage is the lack of small bullet fragments being hurled into the meat.


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[hereinaz]

Like the triangle, pick your poison. They all have strength and weakness. I put partitions in my rifle when I carry it and might take a quick close shot at unknown presentation angles on elk hunts. If I set up for a longer shot, I swap out to my long range load with Bergers and pick my shot selection more carefully to stay out of muscle groups. I am not sold on monos and you can't switch from mono to jacketed bullets without problems in grouping a lot of the times. That is personal opinion based on how the mono seem to need more specific velocity impact bands to really perform well. I would have to commit to them and really learn how to load and shoot them.

Hunting deer inside 100 yards, I personally would build and carry a .223 rem (with 77 gr Tipped SMK or Berger), 6 ARC, or 6.5 Grendel (basic bonded/interlock ammo) with a short barrel. No need for anything more, IMO. You'll get meat damage from the bullet depending on shot placement, but won't have excessive damage from more gun than you need.

 

[AK_Skeeter]

One exception is shooting down at a bedded ram with the exiting bullet hitting rock.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

You said your shots are close so why don't you just start shooting them in the neck.
No meat loss
no tracking needed
can shoot them at almost any angle without meat damage

 

[Hschweers]

I would not overthink this one at all. 100 yards on average on deer…Hornady Interlock Spire Point, Speer Hot-Cor, Core-Lokt or the equivalent. 150 grain is fine. Any bullet in the shoulder is going to mess up meat. But the ELD-X, hybrid target/hunting, made for long range, high bc exploding bullets (e.g terminal ascent) will do more. I hit a deer in the spine with an FTX 160gr and it looked like a small bomb went off. A Partition would be fine. But will provide you no extra benefit. Save yourself .70 cents a bullet and shoot something as and more effective than anything out there. When I hunt woods or expect shots under 200 yards, I carry a model 94 .307 AE with 180gr Interlok FN bullets.

What keywords/marketing is used on bullets that describes its characteristics on impact? Is it all construction based? I chose the TA after watching a few ballistics gel tests and it holding together extremely well at muzzle velocity impact speeds. I knew that my shots would be close, velocities high, and what more could I ask for than a bullet that holds together? But you describe it as a high BC exploding bullet. Why is that? Not doubting you, I'm sure you know more than me. I just want more information to make educated bullet selection choices.

Both ELD-X and SSTs (the two most common "exploding" bullet complaints I see) are cup and core. The TA is bonded. Isn't bonded typically the harder construction type resulting in less explosive results?