CO elk MZL: Inline or Trad?

[TomJoad]

So I’m committing to buying my first muzzleloader this winter and prepping for my first mzl elk season next fall. I’m looking for advice on the gun. I shoot trad archery and every gun in my cabinet is walnut and blue. I’m a backpack hunter but have never had a hard time taking care of my “more perishable” equipment in the field. I don’t hunt AK or WA just CO and WY in terms of weather.

For the inline options I’m considering a Paramount Pro Colorado, is this too much gun in terms of capability being that I’m only ever going to shoot it with iron sights? Are their trad MZL options out there with quality barrels and build that I should consider instead? I’d love to stay walnut and blue but also think it’s hilarious that the only ceracoated stainless synthetic gun in my cabinet might end up being a MUZZLELOADER!

Looking for any an all reco’s for quality 50 cal iron sight options.

 

[fishslap]

Get a Lyman gpr 54 cal percussion and shoot round balls. Add the Lyman tang peep site. Super easy, reliable, very accurate. You can reliably shoot triple 7 out of it with #11 cci caps if you don’t have access to real black powder.

 

[TomJoad]

Get a Lyman gpr 54 cal percussion and shoot round balls. Add the Lyman tang peep site. Super easy, reliable, very accurate. You can reliably shoot triple 7 out of it with #11 cci caps if you don’t have access to real black powder.

Thanks for the reco, that looks like a nice gun and a little more my speed! 11lbs is tough however, I backpack hunt and although I’m not a flatlander I still usually get my @$$ handed to me when I’m out solo for a week.

Even though I shoot blued walnut rifles my elk rifle is a kimber classic: 6.5lbs loaded with a scope. Any alternates from them you’d recommend that are closer to 8lbs?

 

[fishslap]

Thanks for the reco, that looks like a nice gun and a little more my speed! 11lbs is tough however, I backpack hunt and although I’m not a flatlander I still usually get my @$$ handed to me when I’m out solo for a week.

Even though I shoot blued walnut rifles my elk rifle is a kimber classic: 6.5lbs loaded with a scope. Any alternates from them you’d recommend that are closer to 8lbs?

You’re probably looking at the 50 cal. The 54 is 9lbs. I’ve weighed both of mine and they’re a few oz less than that (flint and percussion). If you did go the roundball route, gotta be 54 or bigger for CO.

 

[Breddoch]

As someone who has done a bit of muzzleloader hunting, I would recommend something that shoots a 209 primer. I have percussion cap guns and enjoy shooting them but, there is nothing that will make you cuss like a misfire when you have an animal in your sights. Just my $.02, if you want to be a traditionalist, don’t let my opinion affect you.

 

[CoHiCntry]

There’s a T/C Renegade that just popped up in the classifieds.

 

[OXN939]

So I’m committing to buying my first muzzleloader this winter and prepping for my first mzl elk season next fall. I’m looking for advice on the gun. I shoot trad archery and every gun in my cabinet is walnut and blue. I’m a backpack hunter but have never had a hard time taking care of my “more perishable” equipment in the field. I don’t hunt AK or WA just CO and WY in terms of weather.

For the inline options I’m considering a Paramount Pro Colorado, is this too much gun in terms of capability being that I’m only ever going to shoot it with iron sights? Are their trad MZL options out there with quality barrels and build that I should consider instead? I’d love to stay walnut and blue but also think it’s hilarious that the only ceracoated stainless synthetic gun in my cabinet might end up being a MUZZLELOADER!

Looking for any an all reco’s for quality 50 cal iron sight options.

For me it's an issue of harvesting the animal as cleanly and humanely as possible. I know that gets into a whole separate discussion, but basically as it applies to blackpowder hunting, using 209 primer ignition makes the average hunter much, much more consistent and results in a lot fewer wounded animals. I shoot one of these. It costs about a third of what a Paramount would, is high quality, easy to clean, and can be set up with a peep to be just as accurate.

CVA OPTIMA V2 50CAL SS BLK FOS

<p>Specifications and Features: - Caliber: .50 cal - Overall Length: 41 - Length of Pull: 14 - Total Weight: 6.65 lbs. - Barrel: 26 Stainless Steel - Sights: Fiber Optic Sights - Stock: Black Synthetic - Additional Features: - 416 Stainless Steel Fluted 26 Barrel - Bullet Guiding Muzzle - 100%...

battlehawkarmory.com

 

[CoHiCntry]

For me it's an issue of harvesting the animal as cleanly and humanely as possible. I know that gets into a whole separate discussion, but basically as it applies to blackpowder hunting, using 209 primer ignition makes the average hunter much, much more consistent and results in a lot fewer wounded animals. I shoot one of these. It costs about a third of what a Paramount would, is high quality, easy to clean, and can be set up with a peep to be just as accurate.

CVA OPTIMA V2 50CAL SS BLK FOS

<p>Specifications and Features: - Caliber: .50 cal - Overall Length: 41 - Length of Pull: 14 - Total Weight: 6.65 lbs. - Barrel: 26 Stainless Steel - Sights: Fiber Optic Sights - Stock: Black Synthetic - Additional Features: - 416 Stainless Steel Fluted 26 Barrel - Bullet Guiding Muzzle - 100%...

battlehawkarmory.com

Hopefully this helps with the OP’s decision... how do you think a certain ignition makes someone more consistent resulting in fewer wounded animals?

 

[TomJoad]

You’re probably looking at the 50 cal. The 54 is 9lbs. I’ve weighed both of mine and they’re a few oz less than that (flint and percussion). If you did go the roundball route, gotta be 54 or bigger for CO.

Thanks for that. I just pulled the number off of Lyman's site but they have flintlock and percussion as well as 50 and 54 cal all on the same page. 9 is a lot more reasonable than 11.6!

For me it's an issue of harvesting the animal as cleanly and humanely as possible. I know that gets into a whole separate discussion, but basically as it applies to blackpowder hunting, using 209 primer ignition makes the average hunter much, much more consistent and results in a lot fewer wounded animals. I shoot one of these. It costs about a third of what a Paramount would, is high quality, easy to clean, and can be set up with a peep to be just as accurate.

CVA OPTIMA V2 50CAL SS BLK FOS

<p>Specifications and Features: - Caliber: .50 cal - Overall Length: 41 - Length of Pull: 14 - Total Weight: 6.65 lbs. - Barrel: 26 Stainless Steel - Sights: Fiber Optic Sights - Stock: Black Synthetic - Additional Features: - 416 Stainless Steel Fluted 26 Barrel - Bullet Guiding Muzzle - 100%...

battlehawkarmory.com

I'm with you 100%. Most of my centerfire western hunting ends up being under 100yds which has always had me interested in this route. I will not take a shot on an animal I'm not 100% confident in and like hunting with single shot centerfires (Ruger No 1) for this reason as it just forces you to be real picky about the shots you take.

Total nube here so I'd like to better understand how using a 209 in a CVA would result in fewer wounded animals vs a Lyman percussion? I thought 209 would just be more reliable ignition ie shot or no shot vs accurate shot vs not accurate shot. Sorry for my ignorance here if you don't mind explaining!

 

[OXN939]

Hopefully this helps with the OP’s decision... how do you think a certain ignition makes someone more consistent resulting in fewer wounded animals?

Thanks for that. I just pulled the number off of Lyman's site but they have flintlock and percussion as well as 50 and 54 cal all on the same page. 9 is a lot more reasonable than 11.6!

I'm with you 100%. Most of my centerfire western hunting ends up being under 100yds which has always had me interested in this route. I will not take a shot on an animal I'm not 100% confident in and like hunting with single shot centerfires (Ruger No 1) for this reason as it just forces you to be real picky about the shots you take.

Total nube here so I'd like to better understand how using a 209 in a CVA would result in fewer wounded animals vs a Lyman percussion? I thought 209 would just be more reliable ignition ie shot or no shot vs accurate shot vs not accurate shot. Sorry for my ignorance here if you don't mind explaining!

209 ignition results in, by far, the fewest hangfires and misfires of any blackpowder ignition system. When you match your primer and propellant correctly, it's almost as consistent as a centerfire rifle. So, if your trigger pull sequence is a little off with a 209 inline like shown above, you're probably fine. If you're shooting a trad rig and there is a half second hangfire in the same scenario... who knows where your shot is going.

For me, it's enough of a technological advancement to make my kills as ethical as possible, while still not really changing the game.

 

[nphunter]

I do a lot of backpack hunting as well, most muzzleloader hunting is done later in the year with more weather than a lot of other hunts. I highly doubt most traditional muzzleloader hunters are backpack hunting and staying multiple nights. Not saying some don't but most are just hunting during the day and going to a warm dry spot at night. I would think after several days in the backcountry in wet weather unless you are drying and wiping the gun down every night by the end of a trip you will have some issues.

As far as the paramount pro I think it looks like a great rifle, I looked at them but it appears they don't have an open ignition option at least as far as I could tell so hunting other states where that is required wouldn't be an option. I personally just purchased a knight UL, IMO from all of the research I've done they would be a great fit for what you are after. My plan is to do late Oct. mule deer hunts where we're packing in with a floorless shelter and stove for a week straight. I actually bought a nitride coated 45 UL because I didn't want to have to worry about corrosion.

I agree with the statement above about the 209, unfortunately for me, I have to use caps due to state regulations. This fall my buddy had two miss fires, one was on a follow-up shot at a wounded buck and luckily the deer stopped at 180 yards and my buddy was lucky enough to hit it with a hail-mary shot at that range so it only resulted in a couple hundred yard longer pack. Had the deer not already had a lethal round in it then it could have resulted in a lost animal or at a minimum an early AM recovery since it was already dark by the time we got him quartered up and packed out. His second misfire was after the hunt when we were unloading our rifles. Either way a proper follow is super important when shooting a muzzleloader, IMO it's more like shooting a bow than a rifle, you need to focus on a controlled trigger pull and focus on keeping the pin on the target until the smoke clears. If you yank or flinch when pulling the trigger a hang fire will end up making a poor hit or total miss.

 

[TomJoad]

209 ignition results in, by far, the fewest hangfires and misfires of any blackpowder ignition system. When you match your primer and propellant correctly, it's almost as consistent as a centerfire rifle. So, if your trigger pull sequence is a little off with a 209 inline like shown above, you're probably fine. If you're shooting a trad rig and there is a half second hangfire in the same scenario... who knows where your shot is going.

For me, it's enough of a technological advancement to make my kills as ethical as possible, while still not really changing the game.

That makes sense, I hadn't considered hang fire, lots to learn here.

I agree with the statement above about the 209, unfortunately for me, I have to use caps due to state regulations. This fall my buddy had two miss fires, one was on a follow-up shot at a wounded buck and luckily the deer stopped at 180 yards and my buddy was lucky enough to hit it with a hail-mary shot at that range so it only resulted in a couple hundred yard longer pack. Had the deer not already had a lethal round in it then it could have resulted in a lost animal or at a minimum an early AM recovery since it was already dark by the time we got him quartered up and packed out. His second misfire was after the hunt when we were unloading our rifles. Either way a proper follow is super important when shooting a muzzleloader, IMO it's more like shooting a bow than a rifle, you need to focus on a controlled trigger pull and focus on keeping the pin on the target until the smoke clears. If you yank or flinch when pulling the trigger a hang fire will end up making a poor hit or total miss.

Appreciate the feedback. I don't currently have plans to hunt out of CO for MZL as I'm mostly an in state hunter for budget and time reasons. There is a possibility for WY as we have a cabin there that is a great home base but I'll likely stick to rifle there. If I end up moving to a state with stricter regs I can always invest in a second smoke pole! The knights look pretty nice. I have a bit of a work discount I can leverage for CVA which was pushing me in that direction but the knight UL seems like a great option.

As for weather I mtn hunt the rockies here early fall to deep winter and I don't have big issues managing moisture with our storm cycles. For rifle I have a crazy light < 2oz Dyneema sleeve I keep my rifle in during storms. It's lovingly referred to as the "gundom" by my buddies who give me endless s#%& for my homemade gear

 

[CoHiCntry]

209 ignition results in, by far, the fewest hangfires and misfires of any blackpowder ignition system. When you match your primer and propellant correctly, it's almost as consistent as a centerfire rifle. So, if your trigger pull sequence is a little off with a 209 inline like shown above, you're probably fine. If you're shooting a trad rig and there is a half second hangfire in the same scenario... who knows where your shot is going.

For me, it's enough of a technological advancement to make my kills as ethical as possible, while still not really changing the game.

I guess I can see what you’re trying to say although my experience doesn’t really line up with it.

I’ve been muzzleloader hunting for about 20 years. I started with inlines. I’ve shot lots of different powder, primer, bullet combinations too. From T7 & power belts in the early days to BH209 & Thor’s at the end of my inline days.

Ive since in the last few years went 100% traditional, shooting real black powder & a patched round ball out of a sidelock. Hangfires or misfires have never been an issue. Can only remember once that it’s happened & that was on a really wet snowy day on a moose hunt a few years ago where any muzzleloader might have had issues.

I feel like I’m just as accurate or even more accurate & comfortable with my current traditional setup then any of my inlines.

 

[TomJoad]

I guess I can see what you’re trying to say although my experience doesn’t really line up with it.

I’ve been muzzleloader hunting for about 20 years. I started with inlines. I’ve shot lots of different powder, primer, bullet combinations too. From T7 & power belts in the early days to BH209 & Thor’s at the end of my inline days.

Ive since in the last few years went 100% traditional, shooting real black powder & a patched round ball out of a sidelock. Hangfires or misfires have never been an issue. Can only remember once that it’s happened & that was on a really wet snowy day on a moose hunt a few years ago where any muzzleloader might have had issues.

I feel like I’m just as accurate or even more accurate & comfortable with my current traditional setup then any of my inlines.

Appreciate the trad perspective as well. If you don't mind sharing, what trad rifle are you currently hunting with? Do you backpack hunt with it or day hunt only?

 

[CoHiCntry]

Appreciate the trad perspective as well. If you don't mind sharing, what trad rifle are you currently hunting with? Do you backpack hunt with it or day hunt only?

Funny, I’m an avid backpacker but I don’t backpack hunt. At least not routinely. I was reading nphunter reply about traditional guy’s probably aren’t backpacking & there’s probably some truth to that. Undoubtedly some do, but probably not most. There are probably some advantages to inlines if you are primarily backpack hunting. That being said, I’d still use my sidelock if I was backpack hunting.

My current muzzleloader is one I had built by GRRWca. It’s a .54 Hawken/ Kit Carson style. I also have a Renegade sidelock in .54.

There’s no right or wrong answer here, only opinions & experiences. I’m not anti inline at all. Whatever turns your crank!

 

[fishslap]

I’ve killed two bulls with my gpr percussion using #11 caps and never had an ignition issue in the field or at the range. I backpack hunted in two different areas for one and experienced rain three days in a row. Basic handling, cleaning, and an upgraded nipple is all you need and it will be 100% reliable from my experience. I have a light weight traditions buckstalker inline that I killed a buck with and it works fine also. That’s a good cheap and simple option. I’m getting a custom 58 percussion hawken built and it will be my elk gun going forward. Use whatever you want. Out...

 

[FrontierGander]

Nothing feels better than stepping into buckskins in the morning, feeling the forest floor under your moccasins. You hunt slow, quiet, you pace yourself when you do see game. Everything just slows down it seems. I prefer traditional myself. Doesnt matter what sight system, open sights are limiting you to less than 150 yards on deer size game.
My rifle is a traditions st louis hawken .54cal ( originally was a 50cal in this pic ) I shoot nothing but round ball for elk and deer. No need for anything fancy.

 

[TomJoad]

Appreciate all the feedback and advice from everybody!

I found this poking around and it seems like a bit of a middle ground, 209 primer, inline, but walnut and "inspired" from history although not historical: Pedersoli Rolling block?


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022663276

 

[CoHiCntry]

I’m just like FG... only I’m slipping into my Sitka Timberline’s & Scarpa boots in the morning

 

[Stalker69]

If you go the layman route, they make a faster twist barrel if you want to shoot conical bullets also. Then you can hunt elk with a .50 cal. ( more bullets available, in .50) But I would for sure go traditional, I have both and favor trad. ( bow hunter at heart) And I love really nice wood stocks, there are a few custom trad. builders that you may check out also. Track of the wolf has some for sale usually. I have never had a miss fire with my percussion cap rifles. Just make sure there is no oil in the barrel before loading. Snap off a cap or two before you load, and you should have no issues.https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/492/2/LYMAN-TRADE-50-P inexpensive one, but still very well made and reliable.