Cold sleeper setup- help!

Erussell01

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Jan 30, 2022
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Hey guys, I need your help.

I hate to admit it but I'm becoming a softie.
I freeze when I sleep now.
Here is what I ran last year for early September elk sleep system

Klymit static V luxe insulated sleeping pad (don't buy this if you get cold)
Kelty cosmic 20 degree down bag
Carhart beanie
200 wt merino top and bottoms.

I froze my tail off.

This year I upgraded my sleeping pad, I have two options now, a big Agnes insulated q core, and a xtherm. Is it worth risking freezing again, or should I upgrade my sleeping bag too? Do I need to step into a 0 degree bag? Is it worth the cost and the weight and bulk?

I like the bag, but not sure if it was the problem last year or not...

Help me out guys!
Thanks
 

Where's Bruce?

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Yup. Ya can't make a bag warmer, just cooler. As for cost, bulk & weight, these are interchangeable. You can cut bulk & weight (with something like an EE Conundrum quilt) at an increased cost or cut cost with a bulkier, heavier Wiggy's 0* bag. Lots of choices in between. Personally I prefer to cry once...sleep well every night. EXPED UL9 LW 3 1/2" thick insulated matt is wonderful and reliable.
 
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K1United

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Depending on the temps you are hunting in, I don't think a zero-degree bag is necessary for September elk season. With an insulated pad that has a good r-value like the xtherm you are pretty safe and versatile with a 15-degree bag, but everyone's comfort level is different. Kelty is pretty entry level so I think you will likely notice a big difference once you get into a midrange or higher-end bag. I would also recommend adding a pair of down booties/socks to your setup, they were a game changer for me.

Here is my September/October setup:
- Nemo tensor insulated pad
- Mountain Hardwear Ratio 15-degree bag
- Borah bivy
- Exped down socks
- And if it gets real cold I will insulate with puffy jacket
 
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ljalberta

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Take the Xtherm and yes, upgrade the sleeping bag. If you don’t already, I’d take some time to understand the EN testing and rating process, then you will be able to better select a bag that will keep you warm.

I used to be able to sleep in a bag right down to the Limit rating with only things baselayers. Fast forward a number of years and I base my bag choice on the Comfort rating, plus a degree or two if I’m sleeping in only base layers.
 

Gone4Days

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Xtherm will help a lot but I would upgrade from Kelty. Get a high quality down bag or quilt. Good sleep is worth paying for. Personally I use a Xtherm, EE Enigma 20° quilt, Exped air pillow and I have a pair of Goosefeet Gear down socks if my feet get cold. Living in AZ that is pretty good enough. If I went any colder i’d go a 0° quilt. Sometimes I use my Nemo Salsa 15° down bag
 

PredatorSlayer

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Hey guys, I need your help.

I hate to admit it but I'm becoming a softie.
I freeze when I sleep now.
Here is what I ran last year for early September elk sleep system

Klymit static V luxe insulated sleeping pad (don't buy this if you get cold)
Kelty cosmic 20 degree down bag
Carhart beanie
200 wt merino top and bottoms.

I froze my tail off.

This year I upgraded my sleeping pad, I have two options now, a big Agnes insulated q core, and a xtherm. Is it worth risking freezing again, or should I upgrade my sleeping bag too? Do I need to step into a 0 degree bag? Is it worth the cost and the weight and bulk?

I like the bag, but not sure if it was the problem last year or not...

Help me out guys!
Thanks
I have that same Klymit pad and about died i was so warm…lol. Its not your pad, its your bag.
 
OP
E

Erussell01

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Take the Xtherm and yes, upgrade the sleeping bag. If you don’t already, I’d take some time to understand the EN testing and rating process, then you will be able to better select a bag that will keep you warm.

I used to be able to sleep in a bag right down to the Limit rating with only things baselayers. Fast forward a number of years and I base my bag choice on the Comfort rating, plus a degree or two if I’m sleeping in only base layers.
I can't seem to find EN ratings for some bags... is that because they haven't been rated yet? Or that they just have a different (probably not as consistent) measuring system? For example the klymit static V luxe had an R rating from klymit much higher than independent 3rd party testing. My bad for not researching before buying, but it was not warm in my experience at all...

Is there a place does en ratings and puts them side by side for comparison sake?
 
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Erussell01

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Xtherm will help a lot but I would upgrade from Kelty. Get a high quality down bag or quilt. Good sleep is worth paying for. Personally I use a Xtherm, EE Enigma 20° quilt, Exped air pillow and I have a pair of Goosefeet Gear down socks if my feet get cold. Living in AZ that is pretty good enough. If I went any colder i’d go a 0° quilt. Sometimes I use my Nemo Salsa 15° down bag
My only fear with full down is moisture. The kelty got wet from condensation last year and did not make matters better...

Do you ever have issues with moisture management?
 
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Erussell01

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I have that same Klymit pad and about died i was so warm…lol. Its not your pad, its
I'm glad to hear that you like it, I have relegated mine to summer camping only because it just didn't do it for me. I'm not sure if mine was a prior Gen or what, I just know that I slept cold on it every time I used it. I also have an old heavy heavy -30 degree bag that sleeps very warm and on that pad this year in May I could feel the cold. I tried to rectify it with a z fold pad under which helped, but I'm sadly just going to use it for summer only. It's comfortable, it's wide, its pretty quiet. Mine never leaked. I liked the valve, but man I just had a bad time in the cool weather
 

IdahoElk

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So are you packing in or camping at the truck? what state and when?
sorry if you already posted this.
my setup is a WM Sequoia and Exped pad, I use a Exped down pad when temps get in the teens, I'm always nice and toasty
 
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Erussell01

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So are you packing in or camping at the truck? what state and when?
sorry if you already posted this.
my setup is a WM Sequoia and Exped pad, I use a Exped down pad when temps get in the teens, I'm always nice and toasty
Both....

So- plan is to truck camp if needed, or run a light setup for a night, two or three if I'm in the elk and don't want to leave the area. I'm going to Idaho south of Salmon in the beaverhead zone again.

I'm going the 7th of September through rhe 17th


I'm going solo and I can easily leave the big bag at the truck if I have a bag that will keep me warm when I need it
 
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IdahoElk

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A WM Badger would also be a good pick, that's what I used for years, Is slightly smaller than the Sequoia and super warm for the time you'll be out here.
I also wear my Kuiu Super Down for nights when temps get really low.
 

sneaky

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I have that same Klymit pad and about died i was so warm…lol. Its not your pad, its your bag.
That pad has a 1.9 R-value. It's the pad. He can wear a puffy and base layers to supplement the bag, but the R value on that pad leaves a lot to be desired in cold temps. That Xtherm will make a world of difference in his setup.
 

sneaky

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I can't seem to find EN ratings for some bags... is that because they haven't been rated yet? Or that they just have a different (probably not as consistent) measuring system? For example the klymit static V luxe had an R rating from klymit much higher than independent 3rd party testing. My bad for not researching before buying, but it was not warm in my experience at all...

Is there a place does en ratings and puts them side by side for comparison sake?
Most bag manufacturers post the tested ratings for their bags. Comfort temp is the temp the average female will sleep comfortably, the Limit rating is the temp the average male sleeps comfortably, the Extreme rating is basically the temp you can survive at but probably won't get much sleep. If you sleep cold then use the Comfort rating to pick a bag. I sleep more on the warm side so the Limit rating works for me.
 

Jbehredt

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The Kelty bags aren’t warm. I’ve got their 40 for warm summer nights and it’s barely capable of acting like a blanket. 550 is the stuff that is thrown aside when making real down insulation.
 

PredatorSlayer

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That pad has a 1.9 R-value. It's the pad. He can wear a puffy and base layers to supplement the bag, but the R value on that pad leaves a lot to be desired in cold temps. That Xtherm will make a world of difference in his setup.
Klymit has the R-value at a 5. REI says 4.4.
 

JeffRaines

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For a bag, I’d step into a WM or FF 15* rated bag if you’re looking to upgrade. Don’t get caught up in the treated down BS - Western Mountaineering did some research and determined it was mostly snake oil… looking at what the high end manufacturers are doing I tend to believe that, coupled with personal experience(long story short - sleeping next to a creek, wife’s treated down bag was losing loft in the morning while mine was fine). Also, remember to store your bag uncompressed! You probably already know this, but you’d be surprised at how many people keep them in the stuff sack for storage.

Both of the pads you listed will treat you well.
 

5MilesBack

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I use my Xtherm and 0 degree down quilt even in July in the mountains. I haven't been uncomfortable with that combo yet (too warm or too cold). But after September I'd go with a full bag. The second day of the 2014 season I woke up at almost 12k feet to a lot of wind. It was so windy I decided to go back to sleep. I was quite surprised the second time I woke up and found a couple inches of snow on the ground, and that was in August back then. But I was warm and comfortable inside the tent with my quilt.
 

mxgsfmdpx

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Not all “temp ratings” are created equal. Research “survivability” rating versus “comfort” rating.

We are insanely spoiled these days in weight to warmth ratio. I remember the sleeping bag being almost half the weight of the metal framed pack in order to stay warm enough.

Western mountaneering cannot be beat for commercially available down bags. Have to go full custom in my opinion to go up in quality/warmth to weight.
 

The_Jim

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I’m a cold sleeper too. That xtherm pad helps a lot. I use a sea to summit reactor liner and/or sleep in my puffy coat and/or pants depending on the temps. I just use a 20 degree bag year round.

I usually hunt the later rifle seasons and manage to stay warm in the single digits with that setup. Sometimes what you do before you get in bed does more to keep you warm than your sleep system.
 
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