Colorado Compliant Bullet

[MuleyFever]

So has anyone gotten a pass through on an elk with any of the .50 conical bullets?

 

[30338]

370 maxiball went all the way through very nicely.

 

[cgasner1]

Seems like they just kind of bounce around in there buddy shot a Blacktail at like 80 with a no excuse went in behind the shoulder and came out through the backstrap no reasoning where they end up that being said those no excuse hit like a freight train we have killed quite a few bulls with them at 150+ yards using the 465 grn


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[Ucsdryder]

Hornady fpb in 350 grain is a great Bullet. My optima loved them and elk hate them! Loading them requires man strength...

 

[dirtdarte]

If you don't want to cast your own bullet, I'd suggest going with the No Excuses full conical. Once you make the jump to a full conical, try to get out of the velocity, FPS, FPE mindset. In a 50 start your load development with about 70-75 grains of powder on up to about 90-95 grains. Your'e looking for accuracy. You will find a load within that range that will give you the accuracy your looking for. You can load more powerful loads of course but your accuracy will be reduced and the recoil will climb... and climb and become very unpleasant...and it is totally unnecessary. Use a felt wad over the powder and under the bullet. Iv'e never seen a muzzleloader not improve it's accuracy shooting full conicals when using a felt wad. Of course, every rifle is different, but I'm betting your groups will improve. Blackhorn may not be your best powder choice either... it works well with a super tight sabot load where the pressure of the projectile exerts force against the load column. A slip-fit conical rests gently atop the powder and exerts little pressure. Real BP is great for conicals as are most substitutes. Real BP will be more consistent.

You'll notice that a lot... if not most... muzzy shooters/hunters are shooting sabots. Loading and shooting conicals is a different animal so approach things differently. Don't attempt to make a flat shooter out of your rifle. It isn't and never will be. For elk a 450 grain conical is plenty and I wouldn't shoot anything lighter. A 475 grain is about ideal if you can't find a 500 grain conical. These are very powerful loads even though these bullets are being pushed by about 80 grains of powder. Using peep sights and plenty of practice 200 yards is doable in the right conditions. 150 is more realistic and 100 is a chip-shot. Sight in distance is 125. 150, hold on spine and dial your sights beyond that unless you can really hold and estimate well (lots of practice). Personally, I wont shoot beyond 150 first shot.

People have problems with the powerbelts on elk because they don't understand the limitations of that bullet. They will work for sure... but given a choice, they would just about be my last choice. They are designed to load easily and in that regard they do. And thy come apart if they are pushed too hard... and most do, chasing the velocity God. A properly sized No Excuses conical will load even easier and with a felt wad will be superior in every way. 1200 to 1400 FPS is plenty. Any faster and it will be very difficult to maintain accuracy and the recoil will be significantly memorable.

As for penetration on an elk.... expect full penetration out to at least 200 yards. Expansion? Who cares? Its a half inch hole already and it will bleed out on both sides. Remember, a conical isn't a saboted pistol bullet moving as fast as possible where expansion needs to compensate for rapid energy loss beyond 100 yards. When you're hunting with conicals, your looking at FEET of penetration... not inches. The trick is learning what combination will give you the accuracy you want. With open sights and hunting elk... a consistent 4 inch group at 100 yards is fine. From there its just refinement and improvement. And you can do a lot better than that for sure but you have to put in the time to sort things out. Unlike pre-packaged muzzleloader bullet packs, conicals that really perform have to be developed carefully and methodically. That is why I believe a lot of hunters get frustrated shooting conicals and give up on them and go to sabots. Just my two cents. Good luck.

 

[robby denning]

You may have a problem... The way TC bores their bores and then installs the QLA may effect the accuracy of a full bore bullet - other than a Power Belt. The plastic bottom of the Power Belt tends to keep the bullet straight. Next this is not to say that your rifle might not have a bore and QLA that are square, you will just have to some conicals to test it.

This drawing attempts to show the problem

I tried to prove Mike wrong on this one and I couldn't. My Encore would not shoot conicals less than 4" group at 100 yards, but could do sub 1.5" inch at 100 with sabots. They're just not built for them. Now having said that, a 4" group will probably kill your bull just fine. I had a gunsmith offer to take off that QLA but I never went through with it. Might work.

 

[Hopper-dropper]

I tried to prove Mike wrong on this one and I couldn't. My Encore would not shoot conicals less than 4" group at 100 yards, but could do sub 1.5" inch at 100 with sabots. They're just not built for them. Now having said that, a 4" group will probably kill your bull just fine. I had a gunsmith offer to take off that QLA but I never went through with it. Might work.

I was able to solve the QLA problems on my TC Omega by using the MMP Balistic sub base as a wad between the power and conical. It acts very similar to the skirt on a powerbelt, keeping the gas behind the bullet in the QLA section of the barrel. My 100yd groups shrunk from over 4" to less than 1.5 with a 460gr No Excuses bullet

 

[robby denning]

I was able to solve the QLA problems on my TC Omega by using the MMP Balistic sub base as a wad between the power and conical. It acts very similar to the skirt on a powerbelt, keeping the gas behind the bullet in the QLA section of the barrel. My 100yd groups shrunk from over 4" to less than 1.5 with a 460gr No Excuses bullet

That is awesome! Very good to hear, I might have to break out my TC again sometime then.

 

[dirtdarte]

You're going to hammer that elk. Congratulations. I've never tried the ballistic sub bases myself but you've inspired me to give them a try.

 

[MuleyFever]

They did not help much for my T/C. I tried the base under a few different bullets.

 

[jray5740]

This thread has got me thinking about other possible legal solutions for Colorado. I did a quick google search and found that Barnes makes a Bonded bullet and a TTSX bullet for loading in a 50 BMG or maybe 500 Nitro Express. Can a muzzleloader shoot these projectiles safely? I ask this because I know they will penetrate given they are intended to shoot Cape Buffalo and Elephant at higher velocity than a muzzleloader, but in addition they are cheaper respectively than MZ bullets and in my opinion they would probably be more accurate.

Anyone done this/can this be done safely?

 

[Bucky]

I would avoid Power Belts. 295g regular Power Belt on a deer largest recovered piece was 68g. Bull elk @ 40 yards with 295g Power Belt Platinum and had to put 2 in him still went 1/2 mile no pieces recovered no exit. The just don't seem to retain weight.

How many grains of powder where you shooting with the 295g Power Belt?

 

[MuleyFever]

This thread has got me thinking about other possible legal solutions for Colorado. I did a quick google search and found that Barnes makes a Bonded bullet and a TTSX bullet for loading in a 50 BMG or maybe 500 Nitro Express. Can a muzzleloader shoot these projectiles safely? I ask this because I know they will penetrate given they are intended to shoot Cape Buffalo and Elephant at higher velocity than a muzzleloader, but in addition they are cheaper respectively than MZ bullets and in my opinion they would probably be more accurate.

Anyone done this/can this be done safely?

Yes. Do a search and you should find a thread or 2 on knurling bullets for the muzzleloader. You would want to run a base under the bullet to help seal the bore on ignition.

 

[jray5740]

Yes. Do a search and you should find a thread or 2 on knurling bullets for the muzzleloader. You would want to run a base under the bullet to help seal the bore on ignition.

Run a base as in a felt wad/pad? Do you think all bullet jackets types are safe or is one better for this?

 

[dirtdarte]

If you can load them safely (not hammering them down the barrel with a mallet) they are safe to shoot. However, you're working with a black/substitute powder rifle that is very low pressure and is limited to what velocity is possible. Chances are very good that the bullet performance will be very disappointing... ie.... FMJ low velocity performance.

The bullet needs to obturate in the barrel to engage the rifling and create a seal. Lead is great at this provided it isn't very hard. Copper is much harder than lead and brass is harder still. These rifle bullets have hard jackets with relatively soft cores that may "belly out" and engage the rifling when fired in a muzzleloader... or maybe not... some have had good results others have not. You can knurl the bullets to tighten them up in the bore. You won't get leading and you probably wont get a good seal either unless you use a wad of some kind to create the seal. So, this is a debated topic and others will have a different opinion than myself so the only way for you to make a determination is to give it a try yourself and see.

 

[jray5740]

If you can load them safely (not hammering them down the barrel with a mallet) they are safe to shoot. However, you're working with a black/substitute powder rifle that is very low pressure and is limited to what velocity is possible. Chances are very good that the bullet performance will be very disappointing... ie.... FMJ low velocity performance.

The bullet needs to obturate in the barrel to engage the rifling and create a seal. Lead is great at this provided it isn't very hard. Copper is much harder than lead and brass is harder still. These rifle bullets have hard jackets with relatively soft cores that may "belly out" and engage the rifling when fired in a muzzleloader... or maybe not... some have had good results others have not. You can knurl the bullets to tighten them up in the bore. You won't get leading and you probably wont get a good seal either unless you use a wad of some kind to create the seal. So, this is a debated topic and others will have a different opinion than myself so the only way for you to make a determination is to give it a try yourself and see.

This is great info, Im thinking I may give this a try this weekend!! After doing some digging around, the 525 gr Barnes Banded Solids look like something I want to try.

Anyone suggest a starting load with a bullet weight this heavy to keep pressure down? BH209, I was thinking maybe 50 grains for the first shot??

 

[Jackson242]

How many grains of powder where you shooting with the 295g Power Belt?

210 was the best groups with my Accura


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[Bucky]

210 was the best groups with my Accura


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That seems like a lot of powder.. you consistently accurate? I shoot 250 grain aero lite bullets with 110 grains of blackhorn 209 from my accura v2 LR. Curious if the reason your getting so many fragments is due to the heavy powder load?

 

[Jackson242]

That seems like a lot of powder.. you consistently accurate? I shoot 250 grain aero lite bullets with 110 grains of blackhorn 209 from my accura v2 LR. Curious if the reason your getting so many fragments is due to the heavy powder load?

Sorry fat fingered that. 110 of pyrodex rs was the best load after a decent amount of testing


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[Cahunter805]

Thor muzzleloader bullets are another great choice for CO and TC rifles. Get yourself the sizing sample pack and choose the one that best fits your bore size.