Colorado confused

sndmn11

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
987
Location
Littleton, Colorado
I don't keep hides, why should I eat my tag? That's just seems like a rude statement. There isn't any mention that I can see in the Colorado regs that states that hides are to be salvaged. In fact it states that to remove the hide (among other things) without salvaging the carcass is a felony but not vice versa. And the tag needs to stay with the meat until it is processed and consumed. I see a recurring theme that the hide is not the important piece of the puzzle.
The two questions I had on my mind were the same ones you had. I have no interest in keeping a hide, a family member of mine said they would take and have it tanned for their cabin if it were cinnamon or blonde and large. I called my CPW Officer customers with two and a half questions: 1) Since EOS requirements state "4. If a carcass is cut in pieces or deboned, evidence of sex needs to be attached to a quarter or another major part of carcass. All portions must be transported together.", is the hide with head "another major part of the carcass"? My hope was yes so that I could leave penis/testicles/vulva attached to that and it would be a simple thing. I was told no, the hide with head was not "another major part of the carcass". 2) Since there is no requirement to keep and tan the hide, can I throw it in the dumpster? If so, can a 1' x 1' piece of the hide be brought for the seal? The answer was a quick yes to both. The only relevance the hide has is for the seal that is supposed to deter illegal selling of furs/animal parts. This solved my problem of not having any experience in skinning a whole hide out, while leaving EOS attached to a quarter. That is something I have not even considered on any other animal I have field dressed, so I asked a few questions about that to make sure I was on the right track, and then assumed once hands on it would be apparent.

There is no regulation or law mandating presentation of the whole hide, and there is no regulation or law requiring EOS to be on the hide. EOS rides with the meat and it was explained to me that "another major part of the carcass" was referring to folks who might split an animal or leave whole rather than quarter.
 
OP
Newtosavage

Newtosavage

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,979
Location
In someone's favorite spot
You only have to keep one testicle attached to the meat the other testicle can be on the hide not really that hard. Yeah if your too lazy to bring a hide and skull out you should probably just eat the tag.
I thought this was a forum intended to help fellow hunters. Calling people lazy bc they don't want to pack out a hide and head for one species when you don't do it yourself for another, doesn't seem very helpful.
 
OP
Newtosavage

Newtosavage

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,979
Location
In someone's favorite spot
The two questions I had on my mind were the same ones you had. I have no interest in keeping a hide, a family member of mine said they would take and have it tanned for their cabin if it were cinnamon or blonde and large. I called my CPW Officer customers with two and a half questions: 1) Since EOS requirements state "4. If a carcass is cut in pieces or deboned, evidence of sex needs to be attached to a quarter or another major part of carcass. All portions must be transported together.", is the hide with head "another major part of the carcass"? My hope was yes so that I could leave penis/testicles/vulva attached to that and it would be a simple thing. I was told no, the hide with head was not "another major part of the carcass". 2) Since there is no requirement to keep and tan the hide, can I throw it in the dumpster? If so, can a 1' x 1' piece of the hide be brought for the seal? The answer was a quick yes to both. The only relevance the hide has is for the seal that is supposed to deter illegal selling of furs/animal parts. This solved my problem of not having any experience in skinning a whole hide out, while leaving EOS attached to a quarter. That is something I have not even considered on any other animal I have field dressed, so I asked a few questions about that to make sure I was on the right track, and then assumed once hands on it would be apparent.

There is no regulation or law mandating presentation of the whole hide, and there is no regulation or law requiring EOS to be on the hide. EOS rides with the meat and it was explained to me that "another major part of the carcass" was referring to folks who might split an animal or leave whole rather than quarter.
Thank you for that detailed, helpful explanation.

Clearly, CPW has more work to do on this topic and I'm really glad I asked now.
 

ChrisAU

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Messages
1,607
Location
SE Alabama
I just see the skull and hide requirement keeping me from shooting one early in a 5 day elk season. I can’t eat those things. I really don’t want to add an extra round trip between camp and the truck for the skull and hide. If I see a bear the last evening of season then yeah I’ll go through it.
 

orionthehunter1

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
1,008
Location
SW Colorado
I thought this was a forum intended to help fellow hunters. Calling people lazy bc they don't want to pack out a hide and head for one species when you don't do it yourself for another, doesn't seem very helpful.
I literally posted the regs that state you have to bring the head and hide in for inspection. So it's my fault someone didn't read the regulations and then complains about it? At what point does it say anything about half a hide. Again sdmn11 have you ever checked in a bear?
inspect.JPG
 

ChrisAU

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Messages
1,607
Location
SE Alabama
I don’t believe that is clear on the hide. I’ll ask myself in the CPW office in my unit before my hunt and abide by what they tell me. I will tell you the published 2018 harvest data reported 0 bear kills during all concurrent rifles seasons for the GMU I’m hunting. There’s no way that can be right?
 

sndmn11

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
987
Location
Littleton, Colorado
I literally posted the regs that state you have to bring the head and hide in for inspection. So it's my fault someone didn't read the regulations and then complains about it? At what point does it say anything about half a hide. Again sdmn11 have you ever checked in a bear?
View attachment 123583
I have not. One doesn't need to have done so to read the regulations. I would be happy to read any regulation/law/statute/guideline stating EOS needs to be attached to the hide, and/or that the full hide is needed. I genuinely would as it is important to learn, but I am betting you won't enlighten us with a link or citation because one does not exist.

I think your logic is flawed in thinking that it needs to be stated a half a hide is ok, that is not how regulations work. If that were true, law and regulation literature for everything would be endless in stating what is allowed, rather than only stating what is required or regulated. The regulation booklet lists requirements for centerfire rifles: "1. CENTERFIRE RIFLES a. Must be a minimum of .24 caliber (6 mm). b. Must have a minimum 16-inch barrel and be at least 26 inches long. c. If semiautomatic, a maximum of six rounds are allowed in the magazine and chamber combined. d. Must use expanding bullets that weigh a minimum of 70 grains for deer, pronghorn and bear, 85 grains for elk and moose, and have an impact energy (at 100 yards) of 1,000 ft.-pounds as rated by manufacturer. e. It is illegal to hunt game birds, small-game mammals or furbearers with a centerfire rifle larger than .23 caliber during regular rifle deer and elk seasons west of I-25, without an unfilled deer or elk license for the season. A small-game, furbearer or unfilled big-game license is required."
Since it does not explicitly state that a 24" barrel is allowed, does that mean that it is illegal? Are scoped rifles illegal because they are not specifically listed as allowed?
 
OP
Newtosavage

Newtosavage

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,979
Location
In someone's favorite spot
"Bears cannot be taken out of Colorado until hide and skull are inspected and sealed."

That makes it pretty tough to argue that you can leave the head or hide in the field and just pack out the quarters, regardless of EOS requirements.

Having to pack out the head and hide could be a royal pita depending on where you kill it. Add to that the time and energy required to locate a CPW official to have the hide sealed and I'm not sure it's worth the $100 either, unless you already intend to keep the head and hide.

If CO wants to trim bear numbers, they need to address this significant obstacle IMO.
 

ChrisAU

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Messages
1,607
Location
SE Alabama
Heck, I think it’d be cool to shoulder Mount it and I’d use the regs as an excuse to my wife for the taxidermy bill lol, but I just don’t see the point in having to bring out the whole hide. What if the regs said you had to bring out an elks hide? That’s the same level of weirdness to me as a newbie, I guess the illegal black bear fur business is booming so much they have to curtail that while simultaneously reducing bear tags to $100 to beg NR to shoot them?
 

orionthehunter1

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
1,008
Location
SW Colorado
Sdmn glad you know everything since you have never checked one in. Like i said good luck showing up with just a head and a little square patch of hide. Let me know how that works out for you.
 

Billy Goat

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
606
Location
Shenandoah Valley
I don't know exactly what the regulations require. I do know that the two bear I checked in they measured the hides on. I can't remember them weighing the meat. They did pull tooth and check for the EOS.

It can be a little bit of a hassle to get them inspected. Especially if your trying to leave early in the morning.
 

backcountryshaffer

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
388
Location
Parker, Colorado
More Colorado specialness! I'm getting tired of learning all the ins and outs of this state's game rules.

I just talked to Jeff (Hot Sulphur Springs Warden). The skull and hide (in it's entirety including paws) have to be removed from the field and presented for inspection. Anything else is a violation and will be treated as such by law enforcement. That's straight from the horse's mouth, it's hard to argue even though I don't like it. I can dispose of the hide as soon as it is inspected. Furthermore I was encouraged to tell you all to call the CPW office closest to the area you will be hunting and ask the question directly for yourself. Perhaps if they get flooded with calls they will consider making the regulations easier to understand.

I was actually told that it's unusual that I want to leave the hide in the field. That most want to keep the hide and would prefer to discard the meat, which is also a violation but how many people end up dumping it?
 
OP
Newtosavage

Newtosavage

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,979
Location
In someone's favorite spot
More Colorado specialness! I'm getting tired of learning all the ins and outs of this state's game rules.

I just talked to Jeff (Hot Sulphur Springs Warden). The skull and hide (in it's entirety including paws) have to be removed from the field and presented for inspection. Anything else is a violation and will be treated as such by law enforcement. That's straight from the horse's mouth, it's hard to argue even though I don't like it. I can dispose of the hide as soon as it is inspected. Furthermore I was encouraged to tell you all to call the CPW office closest to the area you will be hunting and ask the question directly for yourself. Perhaps if they get flooded with calls they will consider making the regulations easier to understand.

I was actually told that it's unusual that I want to leave the hide in the field. That most want to keep the hide and would prefer to discard the meat, which is also a violation but how many people end up dumping it?
Clearly a lot of room for improvement in the way the regs are written - as I'm sure they are finding out right now with the increased interest in CO bear hunting.

I'll decide whether I want to spend another $100 for the chance to haul essentially a whole animal out and then run it to town to be inspected. Probably not though. I can't see burning a whole day of my hunt on a bear if I haven't taken a mule deer yet and I'm sure plenty of folks figure it's worth $100 for a whole day of deer or elk hunting vs. messing with a bear. I was already on the fence about a bear tag anyway, even at the reduced price.

So this thread probably just saved me $100 and a day of hunting and might have saved the life of a bear. LOL

I can't wait to see how many bears show up in my binocs now. I'm sure I'll be covered in them if I don't have a tag.
 

bmf0713

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
301
More Colorado specialness! I'm getting tired of learning all the ins and outs of this state's game rules.

I just talked to Jeff (Hot Sulphur Springs Warden). The skull and hide (in it's entirety including paws) have to be removed from the field and presented for inspection. Anything else is a violation and will be treated as such by law enforcement. That's straight from the horse's mouth, it's hard to argue even though I don't like it. I can dispose of the hide as soon as it is inspected. Furthermore I was encouraged to tell you all to call the CPW office closest to the area you will be hunting and ask the question directly for yourself. Perhaps if they get flooded with calls they will consider making the regulations easier to understand.

I was actually told that it's unusual that I want to leave the hide in the field. That most want to keep the hide and would prefer to discard the meat, which is also a violation but how many people end up dumping it?
So does the EOS have to be on the meat or the hide then? My understanding is on the meat/carcass.
 

bmf0713

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
301
Clearly a lot of room for improvement in the way the regs are written - as I'm sure they are finding out right now with the increased interest in CO bear hunting.

I'll decide whether I want to spend another $100 for the chance to haul essentially a whole animal out and then run it to town to be inspected. Probably not though. I can't see burning a whole day of my hunt on a bear if I haven't taken a mule deer yet and I'm sure plenty of folks figure it's worth $100 for a whole day of deer or elk hunting vs. messing with a bear. I was already on the fence about a bear tag anyway, even at the reduced price.

So this thread probably just saved me $100 and a day of hunting and might have saved the life of a bear. LOL

I can't wait to see how many bears show up in my binocs now. I'm sure I'll be covered in them if I don't have a tag.
I beleive you get 5 days to have it inspected so as long as you don’t shoot it on the first day you shouldn’t miss any Other hunting other than pack out. This also crossed my mind because I didn’t want to miss a whole day of hunting either. I did end up getting a bear tag.
 
OP
Newtosavage

Newtosavage

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
1,979
Location
In someone's favorite spot
I beleive you get 5 days to have it inspected so as long as you don’t shoot it on the first day you shouldn’t miss any Other hunting other than pack out. This also crossed my mind because I didn’t want to miss a whole day of hunting either. I did end up getting a bear tag.
Good point. Decisions, decisions...
 

backcountryshaffer

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
388
Location
Parker, Colorado
So does the EOS have to be on the meat or the hide then? My understanding is on the meat/carcass.
EOS on carcass/meat. AND EOS on a female bear has to be vulva, mammary is not valid. I had multiple people slip on that during my conversations and had to have them clarify. EOS is on the meat NOT the hide.
 

ChrisAU

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Messages
1,607
Location
SE Alabama
So, here's a newb question. I guess all that can be left behind is spine, rib bones, leg bones, and guts. I figured an average black bear would be maybe a little more meat than a average-large whitetail, so maybe 70-100 lbs of meat? Then, the skull and hide would be what by estimation? I legitimately have no idea.
 

backcountryshaffer

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
388
Location
Parker, Colorado
So, here's a newb question. I guess all that can be left behind is spine, rib bones, leg bones, and guts. I figured an average black bear would be maybe a little more meat than a average-large whitetail, so maybe 70-100 lbs of meat? Then, the skull and hide would be what by estimation? I legitimately have no idea.
I'm going to shoot one and cart the frickin thing whole, wench it into the back of the truck, and dump it on the steps at the CPW office. There is NOTHING in the regs that says it has to be gutted!

Black bears are pretty thin skinned but heavy boned. I'm going guess and say that on a 200lb fall blackie the muscle meat is about 60-65% of the weight of the animal. The hide and skull are probably about 30 pounds, so ~15% of the whole. I'm guestimating, I've never weighed a whole black bear but the gut pile can be big. Still struggling with the concept. I've distance packed spring bear hides but never on a fall bear.
 
Top