Colorado confused

[ChrisAU]

I'm going to shoot one and cart the frickin thing whole, wench it into the back of the truck, and dump it on the steps at the CPW office. There is NOTHING in the regs that says it has to be gutted!

Black bears are pretty thin skinned but heavy boned. I'm going guess and say that on a 200lb fall blackie the muscle meat is about 60-65% of the weight of the animal. The hide and skull are probably about 30 pounds, so ~15% of the whole. I'm guestimating, I've never weighed a whole black bear but the gut pile can be big. Still struggling with the concept. I've distance packed spring bear hides but never on a fall bear.

Ah ok thanks...I was thinking way heavier than 30 lbs for head & hide.

 

[orionthehunter1]

There wouldn't have been confusion if people who have never killed a bear or checked one in didn't post random b.s. Kinda like guys who tell people how to call elk when they have never killed one.

 

[orionthehunter1]

I have not. One doesn't need to have done so to read the regulations. I would be happy to read any regulation/law/statute/guideline stating EOS needs to be attached to the hide, and/or that the full hide is needed. I genuinely would as it is important to learn, but I am betting you won't enlighten us with a link or citation because one does not exist.

I think your logic is flawed in thinking that it needs to be stated a half a hide is ok, that is not how regulations work. If that were true, law and regulation literature for everything would be endless in stating what is allowed, rather than only stating what is required or regulated. The regulation booklet lists requirements for centerfire rifles: "1. CENTERFIRE RIFLES a. Must be a minimum of .24 caliber (6 mm). b. Must have a minimum 16-inch barrel and be at least 26 inches long. c. If semiautomatic, a maximum of six rounds are allowed in the magazine and chamber combined. d. Must use expanding bullets that weigh a minimum of 70 grains for deer, pronghorn and bear, 85 grains for elk and moose, and have an impact energy (at 100 yards) of 1,000 ft.-pounds as rated by manufacturer. e. It is illegal to hunt game birds, small-game mammals or furbearers with a centerfire rifle larger than .23 caliber during regular rifle deer and elk seasons west of I-25, without an unfilled deer or elk license for the season. A small-game, furbearer or unfilled big-game license is required."
Since it does not explicitly state that a 24" barrel is allowed, does that mean that it is illegal? Are scoped rifles illegal because they are not specifically listed as allowed?

Again your full of crap and completely wrong on the bear thing. Quit posting if you have no knowledge. You have never killed a bear or checked one in so stop posting nonsense and giving people false information.

 

[backcountryshaffer]

There wouldn't have been confusion if people who have never killed a bear or checked one in didn't post random b.s. Kinda like guys who tell people how to call elk when they have never killed one.

Actually the initial reason for this post was that the regs are confusing and give an inconclusive narrative on what is expected after the kill. In fact the warden that I talked to today admitted that there is confusion and even he, at times, has questions surrounding ultimate meaning of the written word. No where does it state that the entire hide needs to be submitted for inspection. There is a lot open for interpretation, including the interpretation of the LE office who may check you. Every office could have a different interpretation.

 

[Newtosavage]

There wouldn't have been confusion if people who have never killed a bear or checked one in didn't post random b.s. Kinda like guys who tell people how to call elk when they have never killed one.

Actually, there was confusion - the regs are not clear - which is why I started the thread. And you're being an a$$ so calm down.

 

[backcountryshaffer]

Trying not to beat a dead horse, but...I have called multiple CPW offices and asked the same questions, it's frustrating because they ALL pull out the regs and read it, then personally interpret what they are reading. I couldn't get a definitive answer once I asked for details and if I could abandon the hide. The main CPW office took my information to have an LE Officer get back to me and they have yet to call. It strengthens the argument that the regs are vague and can be interpreted in different ways.

 

[sndmn11]

Again your full of crap and completely wrong on the bear thing. Quit posting if you have no knowledge. You have never killed a bear or checked one in so stop posting nonsense and giving people false information.

What was false?

 

[sndmn11]

I will follow up on this since I have some extra time at work this morning. Obviously just seen in this thread there is confusion on what is required. I know what I would present to a CPW officer without any hesitation. My September Bear tag is over, but maybe we will get an opportunity to do so with my wife's concurrent tag. I will also over the winter see if I can get something in writing from the head of law enforcement at CPW.

Here is how I landed on what I have:
1) Evidence of sex on the meat, not required on the hide.


-It is plainly stated that EOS needs attached to a quarter of major part of the carcass. Nothing is stated about EOS on the hide. If that were a requirement it would be notorious.

2) At no point anywhere is the hide specified as needing to be whole, or whole and intact, or whole, intact, and complete. Laws and regulations are intentional and specific when needed. For example, the language in EOS of "naturally attached" is used, and it is further explained that detached EOS is illegal. This language is used because that is the requirement. If specific requirements for the hide were needed, they would be stated. Why would CPW be so specific about something required, but leave out something required on the same page? To further support this principal, they do offer some specificity in the paragraphs about inspections and seals. They tell you hides and heads must be unfrozen, they plainly state that CPW is authorized to pull a tooth and seal the hide, they tell you how you can help by propping the mouth open, they they go through transportation regulations and the 5 day rule.....nothing about whole hides, EOS on hides, or even paws. Being that our system of laws is literal, specific, and notorious, there are no unwritten or mythical laws.

Here is another perspective on the same principal; I would imagine that many of us have left EOS on any big game animal that was not whole and complete. On a doe or cow maybe some have left a nipple of two of the udder but not the entire dozen or so. On a bull or buck, maybe left 75% of the scrotum, or one testicle rather than two on a bear as shown below (bear EOS states "testicles"). I must ask then, can anyone point to the regulation that specifically states that one is ALLOWED to not have the whole and complete EOS?

You only have to keep one testicle attached to the meat the other testicle can be on the hide not really that hard.

Points one and two have been confirmed to me by the CPW officers in the block of units I am hunting, and follow the letter of the law. I genuinely think that that there is variance in what is being done because of simple preference of some CPW officers, but when it came down to it, there would not be variation in actual enforcement.

I really really hope we can turn up a bear!

 

[orionthehunter1]

Good luck to all you guys that only take a head and a chunk of hide in. Here is my daughters bear from this fall. Whole hide and head with evidence of sex was taken in for a seal. Easy Peasy.

 

[sndmn11]

Good luck to all you guys that only take a head and a chunk of hide in. Here is my daughters bear from this fall. Whole hide and head with evidence of sex was taken in for a seal. Easy Peasy.

Congrats on sharing time with your daughter in the outdoors! I hope there are many more memories to come.

 

[Huckleberry Hound]

Ah ok thanks...I was thinking way heavier than 30 lbs for head & hide.

A big bears hide with skull weighs a lot more than 30 lbs. Never weighed one, but ive had em on my back.

 

[30338]

Some of the hide/head weight is going to vary based on how well you skin it. Meaning if you have 3 pounds of fat here and 5 pounds of fat there, it may add up fast. I'd figure on a 300 pound bear, if you don't pack out fat, you'll be around 140 pounds of hide and boned meat. No more in my experience.

We've killed 7 here and hopefully others will pitch in and shoot some as well. And on the fat packing, I tend to do it as I render the fat and bear lard done right is an amazing substance. After the skulls, its my favorite part of bear hunting. Great for cookies, pies, baking in general as well as boot dressing.

My grief with the EOS on either sex tags is why both with it either way? I mean they can measure the nipples on a female to see if she was lactating and if the nuts are missing but you say it was a boar, why isn't that good enough? Just seems odd to me. That said, save yourself a headache and leave the scrotum or nuts on a hindquarter.

Fellow hunter shot a small bear that we watched for 40 minutes against my advice. It was totally alone and just very small 1.5 year old bear. Thought they were going to fine him for shooting a cub. It took like 3 DOW employees to finally come to the decision that it was fine and legal. So per my advice to him, don't shoot the babies or be prepared to be hassled.