Consistently Inconsistent groups

[KsRancher]

Looking for opinions on what I have going on here, and hopefully some ideas to help fix it. Somewhere around 2010 I bought a new Ruger M77 Hawkeye in .308. I have the Ruger scope rings on it. Right out of the box I couldn't get it to group right. And by that I mean. On a 5 shot group @ 100yds. 3-4 of the shots will be at or under an inch. And the other will be anywhere from low left to high right and out up to 3 inches. I have tried 5 different kind of factory loads in it, and 3 different hand loads. And this seems to be what happens with most. Some wouldn't group better than 4 inches. But the ones that did shoot 3-4 at or under an inch still had the strays.

I have read every thread on every website I could find. The barrel wasn't floating, so I took a dremel to the stock. The metal magazine insert seemed to be in a bind, filed on it till its loose fitting. When reinstalling the stalk. I tightened the front angled bolt first, and got it good and tight. Then just snuggled up the rear trigger guard screw, and them the front trigger guard screw.



Thought maybe the scope was bad. Started out with a Redfield 3-9×40 scope. Then went with a Luepold 3-9×40, same thing. Got frustrated so I took the Luepold 4.5-14×50 off of my 300RUM and put it on there(I know it good), same results.


I have cleaned the barrel with Hoppes solvent and the barrel always cleans up with just a few patches.



I am about to pull my hair out because I know it can put 3 shots at or under an inch @100yds. So it makes me think there is something I could do stop the fliers. Anyone have any tips or advice.




Thanks. Rusty

 

[swampthing]

Your barrel may be getting hot causing your flyer. Is your barrel free floating or touching the stock somewhere? If its touching the heat will surely throw shots off as it gets hot.

 

[OXN939]

Your barrel may be getting hot causing your flyer. Is your barrel free floating or touching the stock somewhere? If its touching the heat will surely throw shots off as it gets hot.

Second this. Almost certainly the case if your flyer is consistently towards the end if the group. If you're still having problems apart from that and handy with glass bedding, that would be first on my list.

 

[Danny Hoey]

are you shooting it or off a lead sled?

 

[KsRancher]

I took a dremel to the stock, I can slide 5 pieces of paper stacked between the stock and barrel. I am giving several minutes between shots. So I dont think it getting hot. It barely even feels warm. I will look into the glass bedding. And yes, shooting off of a sled

 

[PineBrook413]

Is it always the last few shots that don't group? If it always groups the first 3 shots well i don't think you have a problem, it's just getting hot.

 

[packer58]

You might try shooting off bags and let the rifle naturally recoil.......

I"ll probably catch a lot of heat for this but.........IMHO I don't think shooting groups and leadsleds are any benefit and quite possibly be counter productive.

 

[Porterka]

Based upon my previous experience I had the issue with both the barrel resting into the stock and the barrel getting hot.

What is the order of the fliers? Is there any consistency to when you get a flier? We need to start there.

If it is always at the end of you group I would bet on it being heat. I would track that down using a thermometer between shots and tracking barrel temp between shots to check for a deviation with heat. I would do that 7 or 8 times to look for a pattern. You should be able to do that and narrow down if it is barrel temp creating the issue or not.

I would start with some tests that allow you to have measurable results. If you can’t find a pattern it is probably something mechanically wrong but it sounds like you have checked your rifle over.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Scrap the sled and use bags or a bipod with a rear rest.

When you are shooting your 5 shot group, are you doing anything different on shots 4 and 5? Any change in pressure being applied to the rifle and/or scope? Video yourself if needed.

What happens if you have another (trusted) individual do a 5 shot group?

 

[boom]

Check all the fasteners? Scope, stock, etc. I like to eliminate the easy stuff first.

 

[Dioni A]

It's been said a few times but I also strongly recommend throwing away your lead sled. Your rifle needs to free recoil. I also think bedding the gun will help significantly. I also have a Ruger m77 of the same vintage and could literally only get it to shoot Sierra game Kings. every other bullet shot horribly.

 

[Reburn]

Get rid of the lead sled they are horrible for a number of reasons. If you cant get the gun to group with a bipod and sandbag prone and your still not sure its not you then you can use a set of bull bags. https://www.bullsbag.com/
I use the x7 when i have a lightweight gun that isnt agreeable just to check that its not me. With the x7 bull bag and a standard rear bag if the gun wont group its for sure the gun or scope.

after you have done the above.

Shoot 3 shots and wait 15 minutes and shoot another 3. Do this until you have shot 9 shots. If the gun isnt grouping and you have a known good scope then try another ammo and so forth. With that being said dont listen to the IG heros. 1.5" 9 shot group out of a factory gun like that is completely acceptable if its repeatable everytime. 3-4" group like your getting is not. Dont be chasing 1/2" 3 shot groups its a fools errand.

If the barrel isnt properly made it will walk when it gets hot. There is nothing you can do about that short of buying a new barrel or just knowing the gun is good for 3 shots then its going to walk.

 

[rayporter]

i like to know how a cold bore will perform.
i fire a shot or two at the same target each day for 3 or 4 days.

 

[KsRancher]

I will report back when I give it a try without the sled and wait longer between shooting. But it might take a while. Good shooting days with wind that's not brutal are far a few between in SC Kansas. Thanks guys

 

[Fatcamp]

i like to know how a cold bore will perform.
i fire a shot or two at the same target each day for 3 or 4 days.

And if it shoots where you aim it for the first two shots every time you really don't need anything more. It's a hunting rifle.

One of our exercises prior to season is to drive to the range and take one shot prone at 200 yards. Doesn't really matter what 2-10 do.

 

[rayporter]

works for me, too

One of our exercises prior to season is to drive to the range and take one shot prone at 200 yards. Doesn't really matter what 2-10 do.

 

[Reburn]

works for me, too

And if it shoots where you aim it for the first two shots every time you really don't need anything more. It's a hunting rifle.

One of our exercises prior to season is to drive to the range and take one shot prone at 200 yards. Doesn't really matter what 2-10 do.

I do the same just vary it day to day on prone, sitting off sticks, 200-500.

but only after i know the gun shoots well.

 

[JBradley500]

My 308 Bergara Hunter will only shoot like 5 shots before it sprays shots all over. After that it needs 5-6 minutes between shots to stay consistent. Not a big deal since it's a hunting rifle and I'll probably never shoot at an animal more than a couple times in a row, but it was frustrating to figure out what was going on when I was sighting it in for the first time.

 

[hereinaz]

No lead sled.

Carefully build the same shooting position. If you don't build the position the same way each time, your groups change because the recoil pulse is being directed differently, which moves where the barrel is pointed when the bullet leaves the barrel.

Snug the front action screw after making sure the recoil lug is seated. Then snug the rear action screw. From there, torque to spec.

If it is a plastic stock, just changes to where the rifle is supported on the forend can have bad effects.

Something is going on if it will shoot a small group then throw them.

Consider putting up 5 separate small dots and shooting them one shot only, rather than a "group". There are also targets that have a clear aim point, but camouflage holes so you can't see the group till ypu walk up to it.

That will help eliminate mental errors.

 

[swampthing]

I had a horrible range day yesterday. Took the 28 out for a shoot before a hunt I am doing next week. It shot "patterns" of 4-8". I was flustered! Took it out today. Did a half inch group at 100 and a 1.5" group at 200 perfectly centered on the bull. Its funny how some days a guy just cant shoot!