Cost of Leases forcing people out west?

[Kevin Dill]

As a landowner in Ohio for many years, here's what I've witnessed:

Up until the 1980s and '90s there was a tremendous amount of trespass hunting. Ohio's trespassing laws and hunting without permission were basically ignored and seldom enforced. It was common to see hunters roaming freely and hunting private land as though it was public. Gun season was particularly bad and especially in SE Ohio which held the majority of the deer herd. Hunters would descend on us from surrounding states and elsewhere in Ohio. Every pull-off held a vehicle or 3. Fences were something to cross as fast as possible.

Eventually Ohio got serious about enforcing trespassing and hunting laws. It took a few years but hunters got the message. If you trespass-hunt and are caught, you'll pay a hefty fine before a judge. Landowners (including myself) were able to put a stop to people who treated our land like it was their playground. And trust me...a lot of hunters found it wasn't a cakewalk to get permission from every landowner they wanted to hunt on. "NO" was increasingly the answer as many property owners simply didn't want hunters on their land....or they had family who wanted to hunt there.

Logging and paper/pulp production have long been important in our forested areas of the state. Mead Paper Products began purchasing farms and tracts of land to log and/or plant pines. I recall when there were NO planted pine forests in this area. As the paper company's landholdings increased, so did hunting on their lands...and at no charge. But that eventually changed when Mead began their leasing program here. Initially it was a small percentage of their tracts, but expanded rapidly as hunters enthusiastically jumped in. Eventually a majority of these timber lands became leased for hunting, and were managed by land companies.

It didn't take long for savvy landowners and hunters to get the message. Good deer & turkey hunting land would be valuable and in demand. Landowners increasingly began leasing, and hunters showed up with checkbooks in hand. I know a number of landowners who lease and they only accept cash from their hunters. It's money for doing nothing and (I think) you'd be hard-pressed to find any landowner who wouldn't listen to that song.

The industrialization of whitetail deer hunting arrived here a generation ago. It will not be changing unless hunting as a sport or lifestyle goes into decline. It seems like you're either in the machine or hunting around its edges. I'm lucky to own land and have much surrounding private land I can also hunt. The reality for many is not as nice and they are perhaps forced to choose between paying for better hunting, or struggling to find someplace with no costs. In an increasingly profit-driven world, I don't foresee anything except a continuation of the pay-to-hunt trends we're experiencing today.

 

[otolith]

I don't blame land owners for making money off their property. It's their land and they can do with it as they like. That's the cost to hunters of private property ownership. People with money seems to ruin most things. Because they can afford it they want their own private hunting paradise. Ultimately they'll just buy the property to hunt and they'll lease it to a farmer to farm. I've seen it happen many times in the midwest. It's a tuff pill to swallow but it seems to be more and more the American way.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

This was one of the factors I ranked as a higher influence in increased western hunter numbers than the social media theory put forth by M. Rinella. Not necessarily just an increase in the cost, but the requirement in the first place to have a lease due to the lack of available quality public land hunting.

I hunted Tuskegee National Forest in Alabama a few times in college. Total waste of time. Only hunted private after that.

 

[JjamesIII]

As a landowner in Ohio for many years, here's what I've witnessed:

Up until the 1980s and '90s there was a tremendous amount of trespass hunting. Ohio's trespassing laws and hunting without permission were basically ignored and seldom enforced. It was common to see hunters roaming freely and hunting private land as though it was public. Gun season was particularly bad and especially in SE Ohio which held the majority of the deer herd. Hunters would descend on us from surrounding states and elsewhere in Ohio. Every pull-off held a vehicle or 3. Fences were something to cross as fast as possible.

Eventually Ohio got serious about enforcing trespassing and hunting laws. It took a few years but hunters got the message. If you trespass-hunt and are caught, you'll pay a hefty fine before a judge. Landowners (including myself) were able to put a stop to people who treated our land like it was their playground. And trust me...a lot of hunters found it wasn't a cakewalk to get permission from every landowner they wanted to hunt on. "NO" was increasingly the answer as many property owners simply didn't want hunters on their land....or they had family who wanted to hunt there.

Logging and paper/pulp production have long been important in our forested areas of the state. Mead Paper Products began purchasing farms and tracts of land to log and/or plant pines. I recall when there were NO planted pine forests in this area. As the paper company's landholdings increased, so did hunting on their lands...and at no charge. But that eventually changed when Mead began their leasing program here. Initially it was a small percentage of their tracts, but expanded rapidly as hunters enthusiastically jumped in. Eventually a majority of these timber lands became leased for hunting, and were managed by land companies.

It didn't take long for savvy landowners and hunters to get the message. Good deer & turkey hunting land would be valuable and in demand. Landowners increasingly began leasing, and hunters showed up with checkbooks in hand. I know a number of landowners who lease and they only accept cash from their hunters. It's money for doing nothing and (I think) you'd be hard-pressed to find any landowner who wouldn't listen to that song.

The industrialization of whitetail deer hunting arrived here a generation ago. It will not be changing unless hunting as a sport or lifestyle goes into decline. It seems like you're either in the machine or hunting around its edges. I'm lucky to own land and have much surrounding private land I can also hunt. The reality for many is not as nice and they are perhaps forced to choose between paying for better hunting, or struggling to find someplace with no costs. In an increasingly profit-driven world, I don't foresee anything except a continuation of the pay-to-hunt trends we're experiencing today.

I agree that it isn’t going anywhere, the genie is out of the lamp. I don’t blame land owners for getting paid either, it makes financial sense. In the long run it’s detrimental to the sport. We will see a decline in numbers until an equilibrium is met, based on the driver of supply and demand. If that number of hunter participation is too low, hunters will not have a political voice and the anti- hunting advocates will then gain even more control.
Time will tell where this thing goes. Currently there’s enough demand to command a premium for land leases. I will not do it for reasons previously mentioned. It’s tempting, but I just have to work harder on public, and I do have some access to private land that keeps me coming back. I also have focused my attention on hunting more upland birds than public land grinding for waterfowl and deer.

 

[Kevin Dill]

I will add this thought:

For many years I've heard the opinion that leasing reduces access and forces hunters toward public lands. The inference is that if leasing disappeared we'd have more or better private land access and our opportunities would increase. As a landowner and a hunter, I don't see it that way...at least not with any certainty. And here's why:

The landowner mentality has changed here in Ohio. Hunters are only welcome with legal permission and every landowner knows it. Many of them have a no-hunting mentality, and that's regardless of leasing. Some private properties would likely become no-hunting without the income from leases. And some private property is reserved for family hunting only. The main question becomes whether our private landowners would welcome more hunters in the absence of leasing. I think the dynamic would certainly change, but I have doubts it would ultimately put a lot more hunters on private lands. It could be the proverbial wash. Landowner attitudes toward hunters is the wild card.

Anyway, such talk is all academic and holds no water. Leasing is far too popular with both landowners and hunters to disappear. It really is up to us to figure out our own course or approach to selecting our hunting areas.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I do all three; own, lease and hunt public.

Resident OTC Public is nice, and affordable but not always the best experience for you or your kids or family. Resident Limited entry public is a better experience with less people but usually a rare draw that maybe happens once in a life time.

NonRes Public is not always cheaper then leasing. Especially if you are trying to eventually hunt a few limited entry units or species. You end up applying in multiple states to hunt one, maybe two a year. + NR tag fees

Owning is a tough road as you have a fine line between income generation and recreation. And someone on a forum will always find a way to discount your blood sweet and tears.

The projection at people leasing land is pretty sad. Projecting at these “idiot” wealthy hunters is really a projection at the farmer/rancher for utilizing a diversification of income tool. Leases ultimately make the rancher/farmer more in tune with conservative, as they strive to better habitat and carry capacity to something other then cattle.

Everyone’s priorities are different no body should be chastised for them

Ultimately population of humans is growing and habitat is shrinking. If you want to hunt every year, some priorities will have to change. Unfortunate but reality

 

[ELKMO]

It's kinda cool, reading this thread.
The disparity between western & eastern hunters is very, very cool & a little saddening to me.
I'm not saying it's a universal fact & this forum is very much not the norm, as far as the 'average hunter' goes, but reading this thread (and many others) makes me wonder if ALL western hunters look down on their eastern brethren.
It seem like whitetail guys utterly revere western hunting styles & game. That kind of glassing, hiking, climbing, calling & stalking is simply just not possible, or if it is its highly unproductive, here in the east.
Western hunters just don't seem to grasp exactly how difficult whitetail hunting is. Public land here is scarce & when I read folks complaining about western trailheads having 9 or 10 vehicles parked there,I can't not chuckle. OK, nobody wants to see it but in, say, wyoming those 9 or 10 vehicles might be sharing 10 or 20,000 acres! Here in Tennessee, you'd be splitting those same guys between maybe 5 or 600. Tops.

The other thing that sometimes I think we forget, is that the vast majority of Eastern hunters really don't have any interest whatsoever in going out west. Elk, Muley & pronghorn hold zero attraction for, I would guess, 80% of folk. I mean, why the hell would you spend a grand or two & 10 days vacation time to drive 20 hours to a place you don't know to maybe get a shot at an Elk, when for the same 2k, you could drive 20 minutes to your lease with which you're really familiar & maybe put 2 or 3 deer in the freezer on a weekend?

Sometimes I think that western guys really do look down on whitetail, the way that whitetail guys look down on hogs.
It's not better or worse, superior or lesser. It's just different. The looks I get from hard-core whitetail guys when I tell them I'm a hog hunter, is exactly the same look I get from elk guys when I tell them I love whitetail. Most whitetail guys treat hog hunting as a novelty & super easy, because that's what they've seen on TV or YouTube. At best, it's nothing more than pest control like shooting rats in a barn. Western dudes seem to have the same opinion of whitetail hunters, for pretty much the same reason & obviously whitetail guys are only there for antlers, right?
Now elk & muley hunting?? According to the interweb, that's the romantic hunting right there. Subsistence hunting & righteous. It's one guy against nature in a beautiful backdrop of mountains & sunsets & compared to that, well. Who would want to 'sit in a tree for hours' for a lowly whitetail....

In reality, western & eastern hunting have a lot more in common than they have different. The only massive difference being that almost nobody travels east to hunt whitetail & honestly, that's a real damn shame. If more of you guys came this way, you'd have a far, far better understanding of the difficulties we have to deal with.

“0ne guy against nature”…you meant one guy with the tag and a posse of 10.

 

[awbowhunter]

I don't know if this has been said or not, but I saw alot of discussion in the differences in leasing land out west VS. East and Central. The big difference is out west outfitters suck up any good ranching or timber land. Back east individual hunters start a club, pool money together and lease 300 to maybe 3000 acres.......not 20-50 thousand acres.

 

[awbowhunter]

Another point is trespass fees. A trespass fee out west for maybe a week of hunting could possibly cover an entire years access rights in a lease on the east coast.
I'm not convinced east coast lease prices are driving people out west to hunt.
I mentioned in an earlier post I use to run a 3000 acre lease in GA. For $2000 we had year round access to camp with power and water, excellent deer, turkey, and hog hunting. Could hunt ducks and small game. Not bad for the price when weighing out spending more for a western hunt. I do believe social media has played a huge roll in any influx of people heading west.

 

[Wyobull]

OTC tags in the west are becoming a thing of the past and Non res draw odds get worse every year. General elk tag in Wyoming will take at least 4 points this year. The neighboring Idaho forest land the tags sell out in less then 8 hours. Thinking you will get to hunt the west every year will be a dam tough acomplishment.