Cost of Leases forcing people out west?

[Southern Heritage]

Something done here in the south and eastern part of the country as most of you know is leasing hunting land. I grew up paying $4-5 a acre for a track of land that gave me year around rights to. You then get a group of guys and form a hunting club and everyone pays $800.00-$1500.00 for a full year of use of the property to do almost anything with. However now a days the average is $15.00 and as high is $35.00 a acre. A good club ranges from $5,000-$10,000.00 a year.
Duck leases seem to be even worse.
So what I keep hearing is I’m done paying X I can go elk hunting, mule deer, whitetail hunting etc for what I’m paying here to maybe kill a ok deer.
This lead to a friendly debate last week of is this causing more hunters to head west whether self guided or guided. Or is it just grip n grins posted on the ol web.
Just curious what your thoughts are.

 

[stonewall]

I think there could be something to this. Years ago before I started hunting out west, I told my wife I’d rather spend the money on 1-2 trips out west each season than deal with the lease. It had more to do with my desire to see new places though and little of being burned out with Texas

 

[Glockster26]

Probably a multitude of factors but leasing probably falls in there somewhere.
Some ground out here in western Kansas, that distant family owns, they were leasing for 2,500 a hunter. They leased it every year to the same 5-6 guys for the last 10-12 years. It changed hands within the family. The new owner now wants 10,000 per hunter. Said that’s what he gets leasing other ground near Dodge city. I don’t know who the hell can pay $10,000 a year to go hunt Whitetail, you can do a lot cooler shit with 10 grand then come out to western Kansas.

 

[zacattack]

Deer leases have been insanely high for a while. I don’t see how anyone can afford that much to go hunt a whitetail. I thought the rate for leases would come back down eventually but they keep going higher.

 

[tdhanses]

No way I’d pay even $1k a year to hunt whitetails out of a tree stand.

 

[tdhanses]

Deer leases have been insanely high for a while. I don’t see how anyone can afford that much to go hunt a whitetail. I thought the rate for leases would come back down eventually but they keep going higher.

My guess, the more expensive an acre of land becomes and the more popular hunting becomes the prices will stay high. Crazy but if that’s what some enjoy spending money on more power to them. I’d lease out my land if I bought some just as an investment.

 

[wind gypsy]

I always thought it was outrageous what people pay for a whitetail lease to go sit on the same tired ass ground. Boring. Compared to what that $ can do in a western hunt the enjoyment is not in the same universe to me. Then I got married and had a kid last year and now can relate to folks who don't have the free time to travel more than a couple hours from home to hunt.

The lease thing is still hard to grasp though. You're not getting equity and you probably don't get to do the habitat improvements that are "fun" on your own property.

 

[Pony Soldier]

I get bored looking at the same dirt. I don't think I could do that for free let alone spend money for it.

 

[Wellsdw]

you are 100% right. Exactly my thought the last 10 years. If I need deer meat I can easily kill a “neighborhood deer” or 2 without a lease. But as far as leasing land or a club, it’s not worth it. Even if my odds of success are low, it still costs the same and is more enjoyable to head out west of mule deer or antelope.

 

[D_Dubya]

Expensive leases in the East & South definitely push many hunters to the west. It’s not ever going to change or improve either; more people and more money back East and in Texas with a desire to hunt but faced with declining local opportunities everyday. People will always search out what they perceive as better opportunities wether near or far.

 

[timekiller13]

I always thought it was outrageous what people pay for a whitetail lease to go sit on the same tired ass ground. Boring. Compared to what that $ can do in a western hunt the enjoyment is not in the same universe to me. Then I got married and had a kid last year and now can relate to folks who don't have the free time to travel more than a couple hours from home to hunt.

The lease thing is still hard to grasp though. You're not getting equity and you probably don't get to do the habitat improvements that are "fun" on your own property.

Financially, leasing makes plenty of sense. For example. Let’s say you want to buy your own land. Average price of 50 acres in my area is $300,000. You need 20% down to buy it. That’s 60k, monthly loan payment is $1900 for 20 years. Over the life of that loan you will pay $450,000 total.

Now, lease a piece of ground. Let’s say land is $25/acre. You lease 200 acres. That’s $5000/year. Split that with another friend and it’s only $2500 yr. So 1/11th of the yearly investment and you get 4x the amount of land.

 

[jhm2023]

I have family members that pay a few grand or more per year to have a lease and shoot a few small bodied whitetail each year. Then I look at how I hunt Dall sheep grizzly and black bear, caribou and moose with an otc tag for nothing more than a tank a gas in the truck and the freeze dried meals in my pack, and I get to see thousands of acres of different land each time I go out. That said I do pay for it with an increased cost of living and dealing with the cold and darkness every winter. Everything is a trade off and what someone thinks something is worth.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Southern Heritage]

Financially, leasing makes plenty of sense. For example. Let’s say you want to buy your own land. Average price of 50 acres in my area is $300,000. You need 20% down to buy it. That’s 60k, monthly loan payment is $1900 for 20 years. Over the life of that loan you will pay $450,000 total.

Now, lease a piece of ground. Let’s say land is $25/acre. You lease 200 acres. That’s $5000/year. Split that with another friend and it’s only $2500 yr. So 1/11th of the yearly investment and you get 4x the amount of land.

Remember though that land will likely be worth more in 20 years.
I know My property has almost tripled. Now I purchased it at below market value but not by much. The thing I see talking with guys is the 20% down is what’s so tough. Then managing your own property. I’ll never get what I put into my land out even at triple the value over 20 years but I enjoy planting the trees, building ponds, mulching etc but thats a whole other topic.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Don't forget taxes on land you own. You'll have loads of maintenance too.

I have a friend who calls deer leases a cancer. I have another friend who says leasing is the only way to fly for guys who want dependable deer hunting here in Ohio. I can see both arguments having merit. Whether or not it's right for you or someone else is a personal matter. Some guys don't have the want or need to hunt western game. They would rather deer hunt more often and for many more days. They see lease money as more bang for their buck. Don't underestimate the number of complete whitetail fanatics who would much rather hunt a 150"+ for 3+ months versus take a chance on elk, mulies or antelope.

Another aspect of leasing (vs buying) is the walk-away option. You can opt out and that's it. No sale. No capital gains. No hassle. That's better for many people than feeling tied down and obligated by ownership.

I own land. I've also leased, and did it while owning land. I've been on both sides of the aisle. I also travel to hunt in Alaska every year. The only thing I can conclude is everyone's wants and needs are their own. What works (or doesn't) for you is fine, and that should be enough.

 

[Will_m]

I think it has overrun what little public ground we have in our home state. Deer and duck on the wma’s and nwr’s here aren’t even worth it anymore just due to the sheer number of people.

 

[loganwayne]

we hunt about 900 acres for free, but we also help the farmers out a lot. But me and my buddy (we are the youngest two that hunt the farms consistently) have started spending more time on public to figure that out when the farms sell out or we loose the land. I've also talked to some conservation groups that have been buying up large tracks of land in my home county and neighboring county. They advertise that the land is being kept in traditional use, cattle, or timber sells but now want to charge an arm and a leg to hunt it when it use to be free. I'm working with them to setup some sort of membership that will be around 1-200 dollars a year but give people access to ALL of properties that don't have people living on them that they own now. they arent hunters and didnt realize that there is a huge deer density difference through out the state.

 

[elkyinzer]

Definitely one of the root causes of crowding in the west and public land everywhere. Follow all these "problems" upstream and ultimately more people have more disposable time and income than ever. We're not out there hunting for survival even if some guys play-act like they are.

 

[loganwayne]

Definitely one of the root causes of crowding in the west and public land everywhere. Follow all these "problems" upstream and ultimately more people have more disposable time and income than ever. We're not out there hunting for survival even if some guys play-act like they are.

id give it a few years and hunters and "outdoors people" will go back to what they were doing pre-covid. i know several people that took up hunting, fishing, camping because they couldnt do anything else. if half go back to what they were doing before we will be better off. Also i think there is a HUGE learning curve to hunting any public compared to private and most people will give up before they figure it out.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I understand the Trip out West instead of the lease but that one trip
a year doesnt satisfy the season long itch to hunt.
And, the public lands have become overrun to the point of being
useless.

 

[Gerard Marcaurele]

The ONLY reason I ever even thought to hunt public land was because I couldn’t afford a deer lease here in Tx.

It’s almost 100% pay to play here, and I’d rather spent 1/4 the same amount to drive out west and hunt gorgeous mountains.