Critique My Dream

[passinggas33]

Going with the McMillan game hunter over the AG alpine hunter would save me almost 1/2 pound (24 vs 31) and closer to my goal weight. (Though I’ve been getting conflicting info on the actual weight of the game hunter). Just wondering if I would be happy with it...

 

[Sadler]

Another member on here turned me onto Paradigm Carbon, he makes some pretty lightweight rifles with his own stock and barrel. Here are some pics with weights that he sent me the other day with a defiance anTI X medium action with his 16" or 18" barrel and with and without a swaro scope mounted. His name is Matt Kranz and his number is 605-881-6767. He told me his stock weights about 13oz so this option should help make weight.

 

[t35henry]

View attachment 283396
very similar build
anti 280ai
triggertech special
proof lite 24" 1:8
Hawkins hybrids/x5i
ag alpine hunter

If I could do it again (as others have stated) I would go with steel barrel (cheaper), a longer throat for monos and hawkins bottom metal.
Very happy so far but I need to ream throat for hammers.

Super nice, nothing I don’t like about that one.

 

[eoperator]

Eoperator

What does your total package weigh? Looks extremely similar to what I was trying for.

About 8-3/4lb, 2+lbs could be saved by picking a lighter scope-stock-shorter barrel-no brake but to me that would castrate the longer range ability, not worth it for my application.

 

[DJL2]

@passinggas33 - most people don't appreciate the SIGNIFICANT number of compromises required (or focus, if you prefer) to bang together a truly light rifle.

It's not a sexy point of comparison, but we may consider the Tikka T3x Lite for the sake of discussion. That's a roughly 6.6 lb rifle as it arrives to your door. Judicious optic selection - ~18 ounces, rings, 3-4 ounces...and just like that, you're at 8 lbs before you add a sling and ammo. Mine is 8.25 lbs - 8.5 lbs at any give time.

Now, suppose you get a very light optic and rings...16 ounces combined for those, add another half pound for sling and ammo. That means your rifle budget is 6 lbs for a 7.5 lb ready to hunt rig. Most custom SHORT actions are going to be around 2 lbs. Long is gonna cost you ounces...let's just assume you're around 2 lbs though. If you get a 28-30 ounce stock (i.e. very light, CF) we'll round your bottom metal weight down and call the whole unit 32 ounces/2 lbs. Thus far we have used 4 lbs of our 6 lb rifle budget - and we've assumed away a few ounces we don't wanna deal with. That leaves 2 lbs for your barrel... that's a big ask. A Ti action would give you some additional weight to play with.

This is not what you want, but it might give you an idea:
https://seekinsprecision.com/havak-element.html

That's 6 lbs in LA calibers. Short(ish), thin(ish) barrel (fluted extensively), CF everywhere (including the magazine).

I put together a .30-06 on a M70 action with oberndorf bottom metal (standard factory). It's got a 24" CF barrel from Bartlein (heavier than Proof by a bit), McMillan Game Scout (I don't do Monte Carlo) in CF. I have a "heavy" 24 ounce optic on it and a Latigo sling. It weights right around 10 lbs ready to hunt. Dump a pound off that for a light optic/sling and a Proof vs. Bartlein and you'd still have a 9 lb rifle ready to hunt. There's more to making a lightweight rig than using light weight materials. ;-) Mine wasn't intended to be light, it was intended to perform like a much heavier rifle while being "light enough."

 

[Oregonmuley]

I was planning on doing the nitride, most likely. But this brings about a question. Does doing nitride eliminate the possibility to do cerakote as well? Was thinking about doing it after the nitride, but more for a cosmetic aspect, and not as much as for “protection”. If that makes sense.

Not really sure if you can do Cerakote over nitride or that it would even be necessary?? On the Defiance actions since they are built to pretty tight tolerances you might look at doing a Birdsong Black-T coating. Its thinner and at least as tough if not tougher than Cerakote and does come in a few colors. Just a thought??

Also, like has been mentioned now several times, making that weight might not be possible. I just had a rifle built in the short version of the .280 - 7MM-08 I did just barely make your weight of 7.5 lbs scoped but only because the stock I used is only 20 ozs. Most of the ones your are looking at will be at least 28ozs+ so it will be tough. 8 lbs maybe??

Also, on the CF wrapped barrels, I'd sure consider the Bartlein's. Their #4 contour is t bit heavier than a Proof due to not being turned down as much under the wrap but IMHO its worth a couple extra ozs. The one on my build is just under 23" long and came in at 2lbs 12 ozs, so about what a Bart 2b contour weighs. Anyway, if you get the right mix of parts you will be pretty close - and have one heck of a nice rifle

 

[unclericco]

I have all of the stocks you mention in your build. I do prefer the AG Composites stocks.
Also, your build looks excellent but I would go with a Triggertech over the Timney

 

[Slugz]

My 280 AI build.

Goal was a 7.5 rifle with scope, dead on hold out to 350ish. Backpack light rifle that I can carry when I'm old and kill anything in North America. My bullet will perform out to 600 but I don't like shooting over 400.

I feed it Nosler brass, magnum primer, 57gr of H4831SC topped off with a 175gr ABLR at 2730FPS I have another load with a 150gr but my primary is the 175gr.

Weaver Custom Rem 700
Trigger Tech
Hawkins Bottom Metal
Brux SS 9T 4G#2 contour finished at 24 "
D' Arcy Echols stock
VX5 2-10x42 / Talley rings with bubble
Fluted bolt and barrel
Skeletonized bolt handle

 

[wind gypsy]

It seems many people are suggesting to go away from the carbon fiber barrel. Maybe I’m misunderstanding some of the talk as barrels is not something I’ve really focused on. I was looking at them more to help dissipate heat and allow more shots before it heats up and accuracy fails (at least that has been my experience with my kimber). Is this an inaccurate thought process?

The only notable studies I’ve seen on this suggest that the important part of a carbon barrel (the bore) heat up faster but also cool faster than a steel barrel. In a string of fire, heating up faster when shooting outweighs cooling faster when the string is over. That said, heat isn’t the sole factor of a barrel “walking”.

I’ve seen more complaints about cold bore POI shifts than POI walking as a barrel heats up though.

 

[DJL2]

Ah...missed a couple areas.

Triggers:
I'm definitely a two-stage fan when it comes to triggers. I like the Timney in my M70 just fine (and don't fault that choice at all). However, I find that I generally prefer a TriggerTech (TT). The rifle I'm putting together right now (target weight of 7.5 lbs) will have a TT Special 2-Stage.

Brakes:
Generally, no. I find it incredibly unpleasant to shoot or be near someone else shooting a braked rifle. I hit the range with my Dad today - he's got a brake on his M1 Garand. Wearing plugs under my muffs kept the sound from being out right painful, but I'm sitting here typing this with a sweat head ache from the concussion. Maybe it's my previous TBI (mostly HE related) that make me especially susceptible. I experience the same thing shooting my 6.5 CM or being around folks with braked AR-15 variants.

Cerakote:
Works for me, did mine in gray when I got it re-barreled. They did the whole action, including the inside (I did not specify). It's smooth now, because I've worn the cerakote off the raceways. It certainly was not when it was new. I like neutral colors - having the option to do all the metal in a flat green/gray/whatever ticks my boxes.

 

[passinggas33]

Well, crap. After reading all of your opinions, thoughts, guidance, etc, I've come to the realization that my weight was just unrealistic. So, hear me out and give me some feedback on this idea.

Keep my Kimber Mountain Ascent that I already have in the 280AI and look at lightening it up just a bit (currently is 6 pound 12 ounces "dressed"). I'm due to replace the stock on that rifle, so if I get a lighter stock I could realistically get close to a 6.5# gun. This would make this gun, for me, my sheep/backpacking rifle (less than 500 yards).

With that being said, I still hunt probably more often from an ATV/truck/basecamp where I hike less than 1-2 miles from that location. So my second thought would be to use your advice to build a realistic weighted (~9#) 280AI. One that is dependable, easier to shoot, and a "moderately long range gun" (less than 1000 yards). This would be a mixture of all the above posted ideas plus some of my originally posted ideas.

Am I crazy to be thinking this path? Two guns in the same chambering, but serving different purposes?

 

[BAKPAKR]

View attachment 283526View attachment 283527

My 280 AI build.

Goal was a 7.5 rifle with scope, dead on hold out to 350ish. Backpack light rifle that I can carry when I'm old and kill anything in North America. My bullet will perform out to 600 but I don't like shooting over 400.

I feed it Nosler brass, magnum primer, 57gr of H4831SC topped off with a 175gr ABLR at 2730FPS I have another load with a 150gr but my primary is the 175gr.

Weaver Custom Rem 700
Trigger Tech
Hawkins Bottom Metal
Brux SS 9T 4G#2 contour finished at 24 "
D' Arcy Echols stock
VX5 2-10x42 / Talley rings with bubble
Fluted bolt and barrel
Skeletonized bolt handle

That is a great looking rifle. Is your Brux # 2 CM? When I asked, they told me # 3 was as small as they would go in 7mm in stainless.

 

[fightthenoise]

Bighorn SR3, Proof 280 AI, Hawkins bottom metal and rings, Alterra stock, Trigger Tech trigger, neoprene stock thing with a piece of foam under it

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Well, crap. After reading all of your opinions, thoughts, guidance, etc, I've come to the realization that my weight was just unrealistic. So, hear me out and give me some feedback on this idea.

Keep my Kimber Mountain Ascent that I already have in the 280AI and look at lightening it up just a bit (currently is 6 pound 12 ounces "dressed"). I'm due to replace the stock on that rifle, so if I get a lighter stock I could realistically get close to a 6.5# gun. This would make this gun, for me, my sheep/backpacking rifle (less than 500 yards).

With that being said, I still hunt probably more often from an ATV/truck/basecamp where I hike less than 1-2 miles from that location. So my second thought would be to use your advice to build a realistic weighted (~9#) 280AI. One that is dependable, easier to shoot, and a "moderately long range gun" (less than 1000 yards). This would be a mixture of all the above posted ideas plus some of my originally posted ideas.

Am I crazy to be thinking this path? Two guns in the same chambering, but serving different purposes?

Having an ultralight and dedicated LR setup makes total sense, I'd personally chose a hotter magnum for the later though.
A custom throated 7mm or 300 wsm would be perfect IMO.

I run an ultralight shorty 6.5 saum for timber to 500 yard scenarios, and the midweight 30 Nos with a March tactical scope for LR hunting

 

[passinggas33]

Riddle me this....I go through and list all my components, and it comes out to a total near 8 pounds. But then I go and look at companies like Alamo precision or alterra arms who use the same, if not heavier components and they advertise 6.5-6.75 pounds naked. What am I missing? Is this a case of creative marketing, or are they truly shaving/cutting weight off things like reaming the stock or milling the action even further to get to these weights?

 

[Slugz]

That is a great looking rifle. Is your Brux # 2 CM? When I asked, they told me # 3 was as small as they would go in 7mm in stainless.

I just emailed Mr Weaver now to double check. I just assumed on my build sheet SS was stainless steel since it wasnt next to #2 in the barrel order. Vice meaning standard sporter.
Will find out.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Riddle me this....I go through and list all my components, and it comes out to a total near 8 pounds. But then I go and look at companies like Alamo precision or alterra arms who use the same, if not heavier components and they advertise 6.5-6.75 pounds naked. What am I missing? Is this a case of creative marketing, or are they truly shaving/cutting weight off things like reaming the stock or milling the action even further to get to these weights?

Something is off with your calculations, my setup with the LA anTi, 24" fluted #5, and Allterra stock weighs 7 lbs bare.

 

[passinggas33]

Something is off with your calculations, my setup with the LA anTi, 24" fluted #5, and Allterra stock weighs 7 lbs bare.

Part of it is my barrel is 3 pounds 1 ounce, which I would assume is substantially heavier than yours. And I can’t seem to even be able come up with an alterra (24oz) (can’t even order right now) so I’m looking at going with the AG Composites (31oz). I assume these two alone put me quite a bit heavier than yours. Now many of these numbers are estimates and may change some, but I can’t come up with a pound.

Like I mentioned before, I can’t see how some companies can advertise at sub 7 pound weight and add in these same components. Cause I’m weigh (pun) off their numbers when I add up my components.

 

[passinggas33]

22 oz - Defiance Anti
31 oz - AG Composites Stock
49 oz - Proof Research Sendero 24” 1/8 Twist
5 oz ?? - Muzzle Brake
2 oz ?? - Trigger
5 oz ??- Bottom metal
2 oz ?? - Bedding compound / Pillars / Etc
116 oz - 7.25 pounds

Still need to add rings and scope (~25 oz)
Anything else I’m missing?

7.25 pounds is still quite a bit off from 6.5-6.75 offered by many companies with these same components. What am I missing?

 

[eoperator]

Sendero lite barrel and no brake would hit advertised weights. A smaller 2 or 3 port titanium brake would be sufficient for 280ai, that would weigh less than 5oz