D-Loop (only) vs. Nock Points + D-Loop

[Trial153]

I tie in one nocking point, always on the top. I have tried every variation over the years, one, two and none.
I find one point works as well as two both will decrease nock pinch and top nock makes for good reference to retie your Dloop if needed.

 

[Gerard Marcaurele]

I am always going to run nock points. Reason being is that I know if I have them tied I can easily repair any issue in the field save for serving separation. Those nock points mean I don’t have to stress about my d loop moving at all and I also can fine tune nock pinch and have a “set it and forget it” setup.

Can’t think of a down side to a tied nock point.

 

[Reburn]

Ha! I will be your bud... for now!

Look I am not spinning, but it does seem like:
1. Every response seems to be an authoritative "That is HOW IT MUST BE done" type response in the archery world.
2. Every aspect of the bow, and arrow is all - what works works. Which kind of means (1) is BS and really I should just do WTF I wanna do.

(2) said (in kindness of being clear, not anger) then how does anyone really know how to set up a bow or if a bow is set up properly.

Your analogy to the gun world is spot on and cogent to my consternation... Once I set my gun up right - and there are pretty clear rules on how to do that (not a lot of "what does your gun want")... I can nail my bullet/load down to a "T". That seems totally absent in the bow world.

For the bow world it is... no rules just how does your bow feel and shoot for setting up a bow... then you turn to the arrow and its "how does the arrow feel and shoot". Which basically can be summarized as total trial and error and there are no rules or true guidance.

But I totally get what you are saying. And thank you for letting that genie out of the bottle. I was applying the wrong set of thinking to archery.

I must be a shaman and not an engineer

Short answer is guns can be just as difficult as bows when you start messing with twist and reloading. However once the barrel is built the barrel is built and it will like 1 or 2 bullets best so you just work there. Almost any kind of bow can shoot any kind of arrow with proper tuning. Mess with the fetching its like messing with twist of a barrel. Mess with the head weigh its like messing with your bullet weight. And so forth for shafts. Yes its alot of trial and error. I know I want to be 280fps+ out of my bows for trajectory so I basically build an arrow to match that. Some guys want to be 600 grains and don't care the trajectory is what it is. Some of it is species dependent. It gets easier when you figure out the pieces and how they react. Also with guns you just have to be able to touch off the trigger right. Different body types and forms play heavily into archery and that isn't a problem in the gun world. I can pickup Billy goats guns right now and shoot them with accuracy. I couldn't hit shot with his bow. You cant do that with bows at all since they are tuned to you. Like I said just enjoy the ride.

 

[Felix40]

The variety of answers should actually make you feel better about it. Clearly all of it can and does work so just do what makes sense to you. If you are having issues with arrow flight then try something different. The end goal is just to get straight arrow flight with and without broadheads.

I watched that video and it makes sense to me. I still won’t change how I do it because I don’t have any issues with arrow flight. I kind of doubt that you could tell a difference even with a shooting machine...let alone with a human shooter. It’s like comparing a 1/4 minute gun to a 1 minute gun shooting off hand.

 

[Billy Goat]

I think the analogy between guns would be more like a quick release scope mount. You can swap scopes pretty easily with the same base. Otherwise it takes a little tinkering. However you can replace the loop without nocks it you are meticulous. Carefully mark where your loop is and you will be ok. I have a friend that can swap strings/cables on a bow and after a few shots to settle he will set peep and loop exactly where it was and you won't even need to touch your sights or anything. I'm not that good. More factors can come into play with nock sets, but I'd say for most the benefit is the ease of changing a loop.

 

[Hoot]

Not much to add, other than there are so many additional factors that affect arrow flight, compared to bullet flight in a rifle, that all the different things that can be tried/people's methods of setting up a bow, are a good thing to have, in order to tune your set up for perfect (or acceptable) arrow flight.

Another thing about nock sets vs loop only, in addition to the problems nock pinch can induce, purely for your information....With no nock sets, you will see more rotation on the arrow imparted from the string. This "could" be a good thing for your arrow flight, especially if it is imparting rotation in the natural direction of the arrow/fletching, as the arrow could stabilize faster. This "could" be a bad thing if it is spinning the arrow counter to the natural direction/fletching, because the vanes will take longer to correct the rotation and stabilize the arrow. Tying in nock sets could reduce that spin, allowing the fletching to take over sooner and stabilize the arrow quickly.

you will find throughout your archery endeavors, lots of things work, lots of things do not work, and vice versa from set up to set up. The deeper you dive into it, the more you can learn, the more tools you put in your kit, the more levers you may have to pull in order to affect arrow flight. However, you will also get into a point of diminishing returns, and you have to ask yourself if it is really worth it? You have to know what you are after in order to answer that. If you are shooting deer from a treestand and 35 yards is the maximum distance you will be shooting, it may not be worth it. If you want fixed heads to hit with field points at 80 and youll get mad at yourself if you cant hit a softball at that distance, it might be worth it to you....

 

[Bullcanyon]

We work on our own stuff and all of us in our group tie in nock points. I like the wider d loop you get by doing this as well. Highly recommended that you do it.

 

[wapitibob]

Get your internet advise from people that have actually done something, like GRIV, Dudley, or Cousins. Not some clown that watches those guys then makes his own vids.

 

[realunlucky]

Get your internet advise from people that have actually done something, like GRIV, Dudley, or Cousins. Not some clown that watches those guys then makes his own vids.

Two edged sword for sure, those with the most knowledge are paid to give thier opinion out as often as possible.

 

[wapitibob]

GRIV and Cousins do it because they want to, Dudley is cashing monster checks for sure. Youtube is getting stupid with people that never did jack with a bow and suddenly are acting like they're experts, recycling GRIV and Dudley's stuff.

 

[Billy Goat]

I think YouTube is either people getting paid for what they put out, or people wanting to get paid for what they put out.

 

[Zac]

Get your internet advise from people that have actually done something, like GRIV, Dudley, or Cousins. Not some clown that watches those guys then makes his own vids.

Who are you referring to as a clown?

 

[Samdemarais]

Not questioning your wisdom but why does everyone recommend them and all the online DIY videos show/talk about putting them on? This is where my world derails in the bow world... In the gun world, while there are some nuances to the way you may do some "things", normally you gotta do the thing - its just how. For instance you HAVE to put a barrel nut on an AR15 to lock down the barrel/receiver. There is no "oh maybe you do or maybe you don't" - YOU DO...

In the bow world, when I ask what starts as a straightforward question - because every video I have watch on setting up a bow shows tying nock points - I start getting the variations of "of that's optional", "or that went out in the 80's" and the like....

Then there is the additional "ask any 10 people and get 20 answers" of the variations of the answers to the question... "sometimes I tie 1, sometimes I tie 2, sometimes I don't tie any"; "if your bow is short axle..."... Its like trying to build the human genome blind.

It has led to a lot of frustration.

Really trying to learn, so please don't take my response as a challenge. It just seems like you gotta be a shaman and talk to the gods to own a bow.

Could be because you are watching you tube videos and asking people on a forum. Ask a true professional or watch John Dudleys videos and go with what they say.

 

[Archerichards]

Nock points allow you to change your d-loop easily without having to guess where to tie it in. You'll always tie in your d-loop on the outside of the nock points. Think of it as a constant variable in an equation. I believe it also helps in alleviating nock pinch.

He’s got this right, above.

Here’s what I do. I start off with a any new setup with a standard d-loop, no nocking points, and tied securely enough so that it wont come undone but not so tightly that it cannot be moved. Then, as I am tuning my bow with bare shafts I can twist the d-loop (and thus my nocking point) up and down by rotating it in the same direction as the serving is wound; sort of like a nut on threads. Then after I get the tune I want, I cut off the bottom of the d-loop and tie one lower nock set in its place, leaving just enough room so that my nock wont pinch (maybe 1/32”). Just one nock set. With that in place, replacing the bottom side of my D-loop, I cut off the top and then tie a new d-lop around the nock set (put a nock on the string so you position it correctly). Then Ive got it: my tune, my nock-set, and my d-loop.

 

[OR Archer]

Who are you referring to as a clown?

Josh Bomar

 

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

My buddy started having his arrow pop off the string due to knock pinch so I tied on nock points per John Duds and never had another issue. That's the only reason we did it but sounds like its good for a lot of reasons. 2 nock points is my vote

 

[RosinBag]

Interesting thread. My two cents. Tying in mock points has several advantages over not tying them in and really no disadvantage.

The biggest reason though is nick pinch as stated above by several. Another advantage is you can get your release hook to be directly behind your mock, where most of the time it sits above the mock and that can create downward pressure on the arrow. Along with a few other good reasons as mentioned above.

Shops, even competent techs don’t do it because it is a time investment and most people having others tune their bows don’t know better. If you use a shop and ask, they will do it if they are competent.

 

[wapitibob]

Dudleys loop article from way back.

http://www.darenteford.org/downloads/Nocks&loops.pdf

 

[Zac]

Josh Bomar

Lol of course. I do really enjoy his content though. Everything he has put out has worked very well for me.