Date selection, early sept pre rut or late sept pressured bulls??

[Mdfowlman2]

A buddy and myself are planning an archery elk hunt this upcoming September. I have bee researching units and maps until my eyes want to bleed.
One thing I am torn on is what dates to go, if we are unsuccessful in the draw it would end up being an otc tag. I know mz comes in mid September adding some pressure. So I’m thinking should we go early September and hope to find some unpressured bulls that haven’t been called to and bumped all the country or should we wait until the 3rd week of September for them to be really fired up?
I know this is very weather dependent, cold weather in the first week could change things drastically.something I am also keeping in mind is the full moon is 9/21.
many help very much appreciated.

 

[trophyhill]

If you go early season, be prepared for just as much pressure if the last couple years are any indication

 

[nphunter]

If you’ve never been then defiantly mid sept forward. Even pressured elk bugle back and are easily killable if you play your cards right. How much time are you planning on going? If two weeks then go the last two of the season. If your only going for a week I would want to be hunting the 11-19th.

 

[jdmaxwell]

If u get away from places others hunt muzzleloader season doesn't matter.

 

[Mdfowlman2]

If you’ve never been then defiantly mid sept forward. Even pressured elk bugle back and are easily killable if you play your cards right. How much time are you planning on going? If two weeks then go the last two of the season. If your only going for a week I would want to be hunting the 11-19th.

We plan to hunt for 10 days.

 

[nphunter]

I think most would agree that your best bet of killing a bigger bull would be early in the season. However bugles and rut action is a lot less early so you will be missing out on one of the best parts of archery elk hunting if you go early IMO.
I always get into the most bugling bulls after the 15th. I normally get more shot opportunities earlier than that though and two of my last few bulls were killed on the 8th and 10th, this years bull was killed on the 24th but I had shot opportunity’s earlier.
If you aren’t worried about trying to travel on a weekend for PTO reasons then arrive on Monday the 13th and hunt your 10 days after. Weekends will be way busier in the woods so you will have more better hunting if you start on a weekday.
A key to killing elk earlier is knowing how to find them and areas they will be. Since you are new and don’t know those things your are better off hunting bugling elk because it makes them easier to find.

 

[Mdfowlman2]

I think most would agree that your best bet of killing a bigger bull would be early in the season. However bugles and rut action is a lot less early so you will be missing out on one of the best parts of archery elk hunting if you go early IMO.
I always get into the most bugling bulls after the 15th. I normally get more shot opportunities earlier than that though and two of my last few bulls were killed on the 8th and 10th, this years bull was killed on the 24th but I had shot opportunity’s earlier.
If you aren’t worried about trying to travel on a weekend for PTO reasons then arrive on Monday the 13th and hunt your 10 days after. Weekends will be way busier in the woods so you will have more better hunting if you start on a weekday.
A key to killing elk earlier is knowing how to find them and areas they will be. Since you are new and don’t know those things your are better off hunting bugling elk because it makes them easier to find.

Should the full moon be no issue?

 

[nphunter]

All it means to me is that the elk are more likely going to be active in the middle of the day. If it’s Smokey or cloudy it won’t matter anyway. The only thing I’ve ever noticed with a full moon is that elk feed more efficiently and tend to be back to cover sooner in the mornings so they are less active in the AM. Normally they means that bulls start getting pretty antsy mid day and can be pretty vocal and a lot of times will be more callable between 11-3. We hunted all day every day we are hunting and pay almost no attention to the moon.
I have zero idea what the moon was doing the last several years on my hunts, some people get caught up on moon phase, I’m not one of them. I also don’t use any scent eliminator at all, play the wind and work hard all days long. If we’re taking a break it’s out on the mountain, if we’ve worked really hard sometimes we will take a nap in a shady spot mid day, normally we’re sitting on elk waiting for them to get active again when we do.

Should the full moon be no issue?

 

[Mdfowlman2]

All it means to me is that the elk are more likely going to be active in the middle of the day. If it’s Smokey or cloudy it won’t matter anyway. The only thing I’ve ever noticed with a full moon is that elk feed more efficiently and tend to be back to cover sooner in the mornings so they are less active in the AM. Normally they means that bulls start getting pretty antsy mid day and can be pretty vocal and a lot of times will be more callable between 11-3. We hunted all day every day we are hunting and pay almost no attention to the moon.
I have zero idea what the moon was doing the last several years on my hunts, some people get caught up on moon phase, I’m not one of them. I also don’t use any scent eliminator at all, play the wind and work hard all days long. If we’re taking a break it’s out on the mountain, if we’ve worked really hard sometimes we will take a nap in a shady spot mid day, normally we’re sitting on elk waiting for them to get active again when we do.

Makes complete sense

 

[Lou Sid]

Go as early as possible.

 

[cnelk]

Today I read a post that someone posted here on Rokslide that is good info.

Read and listen to Randy Newberg stuff and do the exact opposite.

 

[Slugz]

Lot of good info already here so I'll expound on a few points.

- Elk rut the same time every year, peak rut as defined by the most cows in heat happens the same time every year. We though associate rutting behavior with bugles. If we don't hear them we assume the action is slow. Its not, its just happening at a different time of the day/night. If they are making noise then yes they are easier to find.

This question comes up a lot every year. Its my opinion the decision matrix is pretty easy based upon if you know the area and or habits of the elk in September, in the area you are gonna hunt.

-If I know the area geographically, know what they do to pressure, know the most used bedding areas and know general elk movement and behavior then I'm gonna be there on the opener. Glass em up at 1st light and set up where they went in at, ambush style. I'm quiet and don't call, until they make noise. Mimic the woods. I think the advantage of being the first in the woods for the year is very great. Sept 1-10

-If I don't know the above info enough to my liking then I'm going in a little later. I'm gonna be very mobile, cover a ton of ground hunting and scouting and calling. My target is the bull in search of the cows as he is doing the same thing. He is covering a lot of ground, being vocal when he wants to, quiet when he wants to and very susceptible to calling. Sept 13-23rd

Later in the season say 21st to 31st Sept and early into Oct the weather starts to roll in and can be a factor for the good and or the bad. 1st breeding is tapering down, bulls that bred 1st are now on the move looking for their next set of cows, end of the month more towards the last few days is like another pre rut period as the second estrus cows that didn't get bred are looking for love and lasts until mid Oct when they do get bred.

I spend all of September at camp ( last 5 years) and the above is just based upon my observations and what works for us. Hope that helps.

 

[Mdfowlman2]

Lot of good info already here so I'll expound on a few points.

- Elk rut the same time every year, peak rut as defined by the most cows in heat happens the same time every year. We though associate rutting behavior with bugles. If we don't hear them we assume the action is slow. Its not, its just happening at a different time of the day/night. If they are making noise then yes they are easier to find.

This question comes up a lot every year. Its my opinion the decision matrix is pretty easy based upon if you know the area and or habits of the elk in September, in the area you are gonna hunt.

-If I know the area geographically, know what they do to pressure, know the most used bedding areas and know general elk movement and behavior then I'm gonna be there on the opener. Glass em up at 1st light and set up where they went in at, ambush style. I'm quiet and don't call, until they make noise. Mimic the woods. I think the advantage of being the first in the woods for the year is very great. Sept 1-10

-If I don't know the above info enough to my liking then I'm going in a little later. I'm gonna be very mobile, cover a ton of ground hunting and scouting and calling. My target is the bull in search of the cows as he is doing the same thing. He is covering a lot of ground, being vocal when he wants to, quiet when he wants to and very susceptible to calling. Sept 13-23rd

Later in the season say 21st to 31st Sept and early into Oct the weather starts to roll in and can be a factor for the good and or the bad. 1st breeding is tapering down, bulls that bred 1st are now on the move looking for their next set of cows, end of the month more towards the last few days is like another pre rut period as the second estrus cows that didn't get bred are looking for love and lasts until mid Oct when they do get bred.

I spend all of September at camp ( last 5 years) and the above is just based upon my observations and what works for us. Hope that helps.

I appreciate the info. You mentioned the lack of rutting behavior not being a indication of a slow rut but the possibility that the main portion of rutting activity could be occurring at night. Does a bright full moon allow them to rut more efficiently at night keeping them close to bed most of the day? I should’ve been more clear in my post. I don’t think the moon affects any rut in any species on this planet, I do think it affects what we in daytime activity, would that be true at all in Elk?
Thanks again, any and all help is much appreciated

 

[Slugz]

I got no year to year trend on that at all. You will se some Biologist say one thing, hunters say another etc etc etc. I never plan around the moon for elk. Just adjust my hunting style. Maybe bugle form the spike camp in the middle of the night is added to my daytime hunting. My year to year notes during the full moon only have " they were not out long today" " came out at last light" " heard em but didnt see em"

 

[cnelk]

I have posted this before, it shows some data for moon phases when we have taken elk.

Our success from 2003 - 2013:
This was for 10 years - 22 elk with archery gear.

16 harvests were in a moon phase of 50% visibility OR LESS [some were new moon, 1st quarter, etc]
6 harvests were in a moon phase of 90% visibility OR MORE [very near or at full moon]

Quick research shows 3-4 days on either side of the full moon date have > 90% or more.
Shall we say 7 days are 90% or more visibility?
And approx 14 days have < 50% visibilty

Category Observed Expected # Expected
1 <50% 16 11 50.000%
2 >90% 6 6 27.273%
3 50-90% 0 5 22.727%

Chi squared equals 7.273 with 2 degrees of freedom.
The two-tailed P value equals 0.0263

According to the analysis we did better than expected when the moon was dark, about what you would expect near a full moon, and less than you'd expect (zero) when the moon was out but not bright. There's some evidence that it\'s better hunting during darker moon, but I wouldn't schedule a hunt around it.

 

[Cfriend]

I started on Labor Day weekend this year and I was surprised by the lack of hunting pressure in my area. I didn't hear a lot of bugling, but there was some - primarily in the evening. For the following weekend (9/12) and beyond there seemed to be a big increase in pressure, but we did eventually get into bulls bugling all day long even with other hunters in the area.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Read and listen to Randy Newberg stuff and do the exact opposite.

What does he say or do that you would do the opposite of?

 

[cnelk]

What does he say or do that you would do the opposite of?

Its no secret that Newberg has a cult like following. If he says to hunt burns, everyone hunts burns.

If he says to hunt wilderness, everyone hunts wilderness.

You'll probably see less people if you do the opposite

 

[bz_711]

Assuming you're talking CO...in 10 seasons I saw zero impact of MZ season. I hunted before, after, during...and almost always overlapping it one of the weekends. I've MAYBE heard 1-2 shots that were MZ hunters. I never ran into a MZ hunter that wasn't within sight of the road. Some MZ go deep and treat it like archery, just very few.
All that said I'd hunt what works best for your schedule, I've seen little difference in OTC units from Sept 8th-24th...personally i think weather has the biggest impact on bugling/action...on average a dark/cloudy day with light precip has produced the most all day action.

Good Luck - There's no bad dates for chasing bulls in the western mountain

 

[Broadhead]

In my experience, muzzleloaders have never affected my hunt. I have hunted during muzzleloader season for three years and have only ran into one hunter who was with a guide approx. 7 miles from the truck off a popular trailhead. Don't let the extra "pressure" deter you from hunting that week.