Did preference points ruin the west?

[Donny Land]

Double edged sword!

 

[amassi]

Currently there’s no alternative. These states that are in the point systems can/will never go away from it. They can’t. I just think a total random draw is the way to go. Then everyone has the same chance at drawing a tag, both old and young. North Dakota has a random draw for their moose, elk and sheep. I know guys that have drawn tags in their first year and guys that are still waiting 30yrs later to draw. To me this is the best system.

Sure you can go away from preference points many states wont because it's a huge yearly revenue generator
Just make them sunset in 5 years and go full random after that. With that much warning you'd have plenty of time to settle up.

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[amassi]

There are no easy answers.

To those who would like a completely random draw - If you drew a tag this year, would you still be allowed to draw next year, or would you be inelegible for a period?

Ineligible for a period on your top tier stuff like goats, sheep and moose.
Deer, antelope, elk -no

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[Next Ridge]

Agree with earlier posts about CO needing to make it either a point or a tag, not building points and still hunting.
I also greatly prefer AZ system of bonus points rather than pref points. Points should increase your odds but not turn into just a waiting line.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Agree with earlier posts about CO needing to make it either a point or a tag, not building points and still hunting.
I also greatly prefer AZ system of bonus points rather than pref points. Points should increase your odds but not turn into just a waiting line.

So AZ and NV points are just more names in the hat? I like that method. It just makes it hard to plan for a hunt that may or may not happen.

 

[wapitibob]

Bob, that’s not the way it works. 20 years ago you could draw the upper nw corner of Colorado with ~10 points. Now it takes 25. If you could have figured that out you’re a dang genius!

(applicants/tags drawn in the point side) = number of years to draw on points
The caveat is that those above you can switch units but as you get closer to the max pool you can get a good idea of what people are doing. Most people don't bother to look at the number of applicants in their point pool, those above, and most importantly, all those that just buy points and are sitting on the sidelines.
In your example, 20 years ago even though the max point pool for that hunt was 10, there could have easily been 15+ years of applicants from 0 - 10 points making it a 15+ point unit for that 0 point guy. Every year after, it just gets to be a longer wait for the new 0 point applicants. In my state, it took roughly 20 points to draw a NE Elk hunt but for a 0 point applicant in 2020, there are over 100 years worth of applicants ahead of him.

 

[204guy]

Ruin... hardly, if you can't figure out a way to hunt every year or every other year it's not a priority for you. Are some of the states systems extremely flawed? Yes looking @ you CO and WY. Also I don't think NM system is much to look up to either, seperating out DIY and guided NR and the corruption with that. Landowner tags that can be brokered etc...

 

[5MilesBack]

Bob, that’s not the way it works. 20 years ago you could draw the upper nw corner of Colorado with ~10 points. Now it takes 25. If you could have figured that out you’re a dang genius!

Plenty of people figured that out years ago, and plenty have also figured out even this year that they can probably NEVER draw those units in their lifetimes. OK.......what next? Look for units that they can draw or hunt a different state.

There have been plenty of units in recent years that were an every other year draw, then every two to three years, and now every 5-6. Ya, that's point creep. A points system doesn't cause that.........too many people applying for those units causes that. So, the points system is NOT the problem, too many people are the problem. And too many people are still the problem with a lottery draw.

 

[JeffRaines]

Someone on here mentioned a “otc or draw” system - and I think that’s the way. I agree it sucks - but too many people are buying into points and still getting to hunt too. Make them choose! You either want the good tag, or you’re fine with opportunity and you’ll hunt general

On top of that - make hunts a true draw(meaning no points, just a lottery - you get it or you don’t, no advantages or disadvantages to anyone). Once you draw a tag, then you have to wait at least 5/7/10(insert reasonable number) years to apply again.

These things would whittle down the number of people applying every year, while not putting anyone at a disadvantage. With the explosion of western hunting were quickly coming to the close of “having your cake and eating it too”. Unlimited opportunity can’t be sustained.

Edit: I also think residents should be exempted from the “one or the other”. They should still have a “cool down” the same as nonresidents but should be able to hunt OTC and apply for special hunts. It’s only fair since they live in state.

 

[Carpenterant]

I guess states can get a little extra money doing preference points but it seems self defeating at this point to not have some sort of randomness to any draw system.

is there any states doing preference points besides Colorado?

 

[Billy Goat]

is there any states doing preference points besides Colorado?

Wyoming, Montana does for non-resident also. Probably a few others.

 

[Rob5589]

Ruin may not be the right word. States probably never considered "point creep" to the extent it is now. I do believe states are being a bit deceiving with their systems. Sure, it is up to the individual to perform their due diligence to determine the chance at drawing "XYZ" area. But, the states should also at least point out that if you start now, you're likelihood to draw is 15 years from now, or whatever number adds up. Of course they would not likely ever do that for fear of lost revenue. One thing for sure, get in early (while young) because if you wait too long you'll have no chance of drawing until you're having to use a walker to get up them mountain.

Ideas I do like:
Buy a PP or otc tag
PP "sunset" after a certain time
After successfully using PP, unable to purchase more for the same species for a certain amount of time
PP top out at 10, 15, or whatever

 

[Beendare]

I think that Youtube videos made elk hunting the most desired hunt in the US....and it shows by the sheer demand.

 

[ElkNut1]

Limit every elk hunter one Elk Tag regardless of state hunted or drawn, no more of this multiple elk tags a year in multiple states or the same state. This may rub some wrong but it's logical! I've been one as well as my Son to take multiple elk in a single year but would be willing to sacrifice that. Multiple elk in different states simply is not necessary. My .02

ElkNut

 

[trophyhill]

I wish the points system were more hunter friendly. For example; let’s say I have 6 points and want to hunt a 5 point unit 2 years from now. Why couldn’t I use 3 of those points for a 3 point unit and keep the other 3 to continue to build on? And draw the 5 point unit 2 years later?

 

[cnelk]

I wish the points system were more hunter friendly. For example; let’s say I have 6 points and want to hunt a 5 point unit 2 years from now. Why couldn’t I use 3 of those points for a 3 point unit and keep the other 3 to continue to build on? And draw the 5 point unit 2 years later?

^ That’s called Point Banking. Colorado did it for one year back in 2007 (if I remember correctly)

I was a fan of it until I researched it and it in fact doesn’t not help point creep.

 

[MuleyFever]

I wish the points system were more hunter friendly. For example; let’s say I have 6 points and want to hunt a 5 point unit 2 years from now. Why couldn’t I use 3 of those points for a 3 point unit and keep the other 3 to continue to build on? And draw the 5 point unit 2 years later?

We are not looking for more ways to make point creep worse.

 

[trophyhill]

Ok bad idea but it sounded good

 

[codym]

I live in NM and can tell you our big game draw is the only thing we ever got right. Certain hunts are once in a lifetime which is perfect. The LO tags are a different story. My dad just drew a great rifle bull tag in his 50’s, he’s late to hunting so with a point system he likely would never got that opportunity. I came from a poor home growing up and there’s no way anyone would have started buying me preferance points in another state as a kid therefore there’s no chance of me building enough points for most of the elite tags in other western states. Now guys start buying points for their kids super early and that’s great for them but pretty unfair to those that don’t have that. It’s amazing to draw a great tag in a wonderful place and know you have similar odds of drawing it again the next year. It really is the fairest way to disperse tags each year. If NM ever tried to push a preferance point Ponzi scheme in any form I will do everything in my power to block it. To the OP I don’t think it has ruined the west but definitely placed many opportunities for some of the best places and most incredible animals out of most people’s grasp.

 

[AaronMColeman]

We’re bitching about points for elk, what about for moose

I get the idea for both: not Enough animals to kill for all the people who want to kill them. The good thing with elk is that we may not hunt the primo units more than a couple times a decade at best, but we can hunt somewhere every year if we want. Moose is once in a lifetime outside of Alaska (technically it could be more but it’s a super rare tag for most)!