I have just spent the last 2 hours wading through state regulations regarding muzzleloader specific seasons. As far as I can tell Wa, ID, and OR all have the most stringent regulations regarding muzzleloaders. My thinking is that I would like to buy a muzzleloader that is legal for those states as I cant afford 2 of them, and then I can use it pretty much anywhere else I go. That being said it seems that without getting a custom muzzleloader, options are pretty limited. The T/C northwestern explorer looks pretty good, or the T/C Hawken, or CVA elkhorn pro. I would love any other suggestions so far as specific rifles, or redirection if my thought process is flawed. I would rather pay more for something good quality.
Do all smokepole
- Thread starter Mckinnon
- Start date
Arrowslinger
WKR
I've hunted with a CVA, TC Hawken and Knight inline...think it all depends on what the regs say and if it needs to be a side hammer or if you can use an inline. For the money and options, i'd consider a TC Encore with 50cal barrel if i were to buy one now. If it needs to be more traditional, the Hawken will roll them uphill when hit good.
- Thread Starter
- #4
Having owned both,I would go with a Hawkins. I personally found I could load it faster and was easier to load (cap) than my in line. If you are not able to use optics then there is not much difference. More powder moves the bullet faster and harder but both kill just the same. Never had a issue with penetration using 90gr. in my Hawkins or 140gr. in my in line. Go with what you like. Either way it is a very full filling weapon to hunt with.
Chesapeake
Lil-Rokslider
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2012
- Messages
- 211
Not positive on all the rules, but believe you need this:
Exposed ignition, no fiber optics, no sabots, bullet no longer than diameter, and no. 11 or musket cap ignition.
I believe, assuming I havent missed any laws, my 2 choices would be: Inline; Knight bighorn (western version with #11 ignition), 26" barrel, replaced the fiber-optics with non fiber-optic williams sights. Side lock; Lyman's Great Plains Hunter rifle.
Exposed ignition, no fiber optics, no sabots, bullet no longer than diameter, and no. 11 or musket cap ignition.
I believe, assuming I havent missed any laws, my 2 choices would be: Inline; Knight bighorn (western version with #11 ignition), 26" barrel, replaced the fiber-optics with non fiber-optic williams sights. Side lock; Lyman's Great Plains Hunter rifle.
- Thread Starter
- #7
Jon Boy
WKR
The knight bighorn is definitely one of the best and one of the most popular muzzies legal for the nw, at least in WA. The knight disc extreme with the north west conversion kit is also a good choice. Ive had a tc black diamond and my buddy had a cva, we both have knights now
For the states listed, I can only speak for Idaho (and Colorado.) You have four things to consider in the rifle purchase:
1) Conical vs. Sabot
2) 209 vs. traditional ignition like #11 or 209
3) Inline or sidehammer
4) Open sights, peep or buckhorn style (that one is obvious, but I thought I better throw it in)
After that, it's just components like loose powder vs. pellets, bullet construction, and powder type (for example, smokeless is illegal, as in Blackhorn 209 in some states like NV.)
For the rifle, consider that are going to be restricted to a conical bullet (non-sabot.) This means you want to buy a gun with a slower twist than a gun made for sabots, if you'd like less than 4" groups.
Most sabot guns shoot best with fast twist, like 1:28 or faster (faster means smaller 2nd number, so 1:12 is faster than 1:28) and since most of the US allows sabots, most guns are fast twist these days.
If you are going to hunt with conicals, it is best to start with a gun with a 1:48 twist as they stabilize conicals better. Trust me on this one, I spent all summer trying to get a T/C Encore with 1:28 to shoot conicals and it won't do it. It shoots sabots very well. Many of the guns listed above will be available in 1:48 twist, but you have to check!
For Colorado, you can use 209's, but Idaho you must use #11 or musket.
Both Idaho and Colorado allow "inline" ignition, as in you don't have to have a sidehammer, but Idaho requires that the cap "must be exposed when cocked to fire", so a sealed ignition system is illegal. Colorado allows a sealed ignition system and is one reason I tried so hard to get the T/C Encore to shoot.
Open sights, with no electronics. I don't know for sure if fiber optics are allowed, but I don't use them anyway.
From there, it just gets into bullet construction type and the rifles that shoot conicals can usually do fine with any bullet construction. Idaho only allows bullets made fully of lead, so a copper jacketed bullet, even if it is conical, is illegal. Not so in Colorado.
Keep us posted on your purchase. I have a thread on the muzz forum with video called "Big Mule Deer Here I Come"
http://www.rokslide.com/forums/showthread.php?1148-Big-mule-deer-here-I-come-)
if you want to watch my painful process of getting a muzzleloader to shoot well. By the grace of God, I finally got it, but it was not easy. As usual, though, I learned a lot.
1) Conical vs. Sabot
2) 209 vs. traditional ignition like #11 or 209
3) Inline or sidehammer
4) Open sights, peep or buckhorn style (that one is obvious, but I thought I better throw it in)
After that, it's just components like loose powder vs. pellets, bullet construction, and powder type (for example, smokeless is illegal, as in Blackhorn 209 in some states like NV.)
For the rifle, consider that are going to be restricted to a conical bullet (non-sabot.) This means you want to buy a gun with a slower twist than a gun made for sabots, if you'd like less than 4" groups.
Most sabot guns shoot best with fast twist, like 1:28 or faster (faster means smaller 2nd number, so 1:12 is faster than 1:28) and since most of the US allows sabots, most guns are fast twist these days.
If you are going to hunt with conicals, it is best to start with a gun with a 1:48 twist as they stabilize conicals better. Trust me on this one, I spent all summer trying to get a T/C Encore with 1:28 to shoot conicals and it won't do it. It shoots sabots very well. Many of the guns listed above will be available in 1:48 twist, but you have to check!
For Colorado, you can use 209's, but Idaho you must use #11 or musket.
Both Idaho and Colorado allow "inline" ignition, as in you don't have to have a sidehammer, but Idaho requires that the cap "must be exposed when cocked to fire", so a sealed ignition system is illegal. Colorado allows a sealed ignition system and is one reason I tried so hard to get the T/C Encore to shoot.
Open sights, with no electronics. I don't know for sure if fiber optics are allowed, but I don't use them anyway.
From there, it just gets into bullet construction type and the rifles that shoot conicals can usually do fine with any bullet construction. Idaho only allows bullets made fully of lead, so a copper jacketed bullet, even if it is conical, is illegal. Not so in Colorado.
Keep us posted on your purchase. I have a thread on the muzz forum with video called "Big Mule Deer Here I Come"
http://www.rokslide.com/forums/showthread.php?1148-Big-mule-deer-here-I-come-)
if you want to watch my painful process of getting a muzzleloader to shoot well. By the grace of God, I finally got it, but it was not easy. As usual, though, I learned a lot.
- Thread Starter
- #10
sabotloader
WKR
I have not read all the responses so if my thoughts have already been expressed, well shucks.
The one rifle that could solve all of your problems is the Knight DISC Extreme. With a Western Kit installed it is legal for the Pac-Northwest. You can also switch back to the 209 ignition system and be back in the modern world. For those in Idaho and Oregon it shoots full bore conicals - super...
This is the DISC with a Western Kit installed. You can see the cap is visible as required, but it is also more protected from the elements than other gun options...
This is an example of the gun I use during regular rifle season in Idaho.
- Thread Starter
- #12
sabotloader
WKR
well then let me show you they work also...
This is a Knight Mountaineer but basically it is the same as a Extreme.
Love your posts sabotloader
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