Do we over think our ammunition?

[204guy]

To answer the question, undoubtedly yes. Terminal ballistics has to be the most over analyzed/discussed yet least understood topic on this forum.

 

[nobody]

Let me preface this by saying that all the comments below are directed at myself as much as anything, but it's just interesting to think about!

I agree 100000000% with what has been shared so far. We have way too much access to information and calculators nowadays that allow us to account for any and ever minute detail of our shooting systems. The way lots of threads make it sound, Jack O'Connor and Teddy Roosevelt shouldn't have had a snowballs chance at ever killing anything.

That's not to say that we shouldn't analyze our equipment and try to find the best we can. But we should also be realistic about our expectations and hunting situations. Do you need a 10 pound .338 Lapua with a Nightforce if you're legitimately never going to shoot beyond 400 yards? Nope, hate to burst your bubble, you don't! Doesn't mean you shouldn't buy one if you want it, but I'll bet if most of us were honest with ourselves, we could learn a thing or 2 from ol' Teddy and his trust 30-30.

Additionally, so many people spend tons of time getting the perfect setup and the perfect reload and everything and then never do anything but punch paper groups at 100 yards. Just because your .338 Lapua shoots bug holes at 100 doesn't mean you're "good on elk to 1000." I would rather see a guy who shoots his Creedmoor a couple times a week take a shot at an elk at 1000 than the guy who set up his Lapua and never shot beyond 100. I don't care how much energy the Lapua is carrying, that guy has no right to be shooting that far. (For the record, neither does the guy with the Creed, but you get my point.)

One of my Grandpa's killed some giant animals with nothing more than a 30-30 up until his retirement in '97 when he bought himself his "big gun," a Browning BLR in .270. He's never even hunted with it, it's still brand new. All he's done is put a scope on it and put it in his safe. If he ever needed to put an animal down, he would grab that 30-30, because he knows where it hits. He shoots Remington Core-Locts through it. Other Grandpa has pretty much shot nothing but a sporterized Mauser in 30-06 with AT LEAST a 12-pound trigger since the 60's or so. It's not bedded, it's got a crooked Leupold fixed 4 power scope on it, and it's never shot better than about 2 inch groups. But he has killed everything with that rifle he's ever pointed at, and my dad swears he's never seen his dad miss. But he's also never seen him take further than about a 300 yard shot.

I think we could learn something from our Grandpa's. Sometimes, it pays to take a step backwards...

"The truth is that any good modern rifle is good enough. The determining factor is the man behind the gun." - Teddy Roosevelt

 

[MeatMissile]

Let me preface this by saying that all the comments below are directed at myself as much as anything, but it's just interesting to think about!

I agree 100000000% with what has been shared so far. We have way too much access to information and calculators nowadays that allow us to account for any and ever minute detail of our shooting systems. The way lots of threads make it sound, Jack O'Connor and Teddy Roosevelt shouldn't have had a snowballs chance at ever killing anything.

That's not to say that we shouldn't analyze our equipment and try to find the best we can. But we should also be realistic about our expectations and hunting situations. Do you need a 10 pound .338 Lapua with a Nightforce if you're legitimately never going to shoot beyond 400 yards? Nope, hate to burst your bubble, you don't! Doesn't mean you shouldn't buy one if you want it, but I'll bet if most of us were honest with ourselves, we could learn a thing or 2 from ol' Teddy and his trust 30-30.

Additionally, so many people spend tons of time getting the perfect setup and the perfect reload and everything and then never do anything but punch paper groups at 100 yards. Just because your .338 Lapua shoots bug holes at 100 doesn't mean you're "good on elk to 1000." I would rather see a guy who shoots his Creedmoor a couple times a week take a shot at an elk at 1000 than the guy who set up his Lapua and never shot beyond 100. I don't care how much energy the Lapua is carrying, that guy has no right to be shooting that far. (For the record, neither does the guy with the Creed, but you get my point.)

One of my Grandpa's killed some giant animals with nothing more than a 30-30 up until his retirement in '97 when he bought himself his "big gun," a Browning BLR in .270. He's never even hunted with it, it's still brand new. All he's done is put a scope on it and put it in his safe. If he ever needed to put an animal down, he would grab that 30-30, because he knows where it hits. He shoots Remington Core-Locts through it. Other Grandpa has pretty much shot nothing but a sporterized Mauser in 30-06 with AT LEAST a 12-pound trigger since the 60's or so. It's not bedded, it's got a crooked Leupold fixed 4 power scope on it, and it's never shot better than about 2 inch groups. But he has killed everything with that rifle he's ever pointed at, and my dad swears he's never seen his dad miss. But he's also never seen him take further than about a 300 yard shot.

I think we could learn something from our Grandpa's. Sometimes, it pays to take a step backwards...

"The truth is that any good modern rifle is good enough. The determining factor is the man behind the gun." - Teddy Roosevelt

You gotta wonder how herds of big game were decimated with single shots shooting bullets with the BC of a wiffle ball.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I tend to think most hunters would be fine with a hand-me-down and Walmart grade factory ammo. That will probably cover the 200 yards and under most are shooting from.

a better rifle and glass and maybe the next tier of production ammo should put most in the 1.5 or even 1.0 MOA Zip code That would let you stretch to 300-400 yards.

if you are shooting often and comfortably beyond 400 you are prolly obsessed with shooting in general and more aspects than ammo.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I tend to think most hunters would be fine with a hand-me-down and Walmart grade factory ammo. That will probably cover the 200 yards and under most are shooting from.

a better rifle and glass and maybe the next tier of production ammo should put most in the 1.5 or even 1.0 MOA Zip code That would let you stretch to 300-400 yards.

if you are shooting often and comfortably beyond 400 you are prolly obsessed with shooting in general and more aspects than ammo.

Nailed it.

 

[Maverick1]

Hi I'm brand new here. I found this site because I wanted other people's thoughts on this but plan on participating in other conversations
Do people over think the ammo part of hunting? I was thinking about it because I know at one point years ago I was worried about "what's the best" but as the years have gone on and I've had more experience I've kinda found my go to rounds and they're never the thing anyone is talking about. They're generally the cheap but effective ones. All the bang I need for my situations. I'm just curious about your thoughts.

Some people over think their ammunition selection, yes. That is their choice! I do not, and that is my choice. To each their own!

 

[Sled]

Carlos Hathcock might agree with most of you. Knowing your gun and ammo goes a long ways. For those of us that are mere mortals, we take every advantage we can get. Some go large caliber and others go less thump and greater accuracy. Some want a bonded projectile and others want a frangible round that does a lot of internal damage. Long range shooters need a high BC bullet while easter hunters should or could care less about BC for their 100 yard shots. Again, like I mentioned earlier, pick the right tool for the job. No need to over think it but why under think it. It's all a trade off so pick the things that matter to you and your situation and go hunting.

 

[slimbo]

Some people over think it to the point of anxiety. As long as you’re not way out of left field (40gr vmax for elk) shot placement trumps boolits.

 

[slimbo]

Some people over think it to the point of anxiety. As long as you’re not way out of left field (40gr vmax for elk) shot placement trumps boolits.

 

[Zappaman]

Many good replies here and to me the "trick" was to keep it BOTH accurate and cheap! But one day I took an empty box of ammo to the store cause I wanted THAT same ammo (after using the first box for over 12 years). The price tag on the old box was $10.99 (7mm RM) and when the guy behind the counter said, "that will be $36," I said, "... uh, no just ONE box please."

So after that hunt, I dug out my old reloading press (dad got me at age 13) and got BACK to $10.99 a box FOR WAY BETTER ammo. Technology (affordable chronographs, bullet advances, ballistic calculators) have made it a LOT easier to load very accurate ammo lately too.

But as some have said, get a good load and then stick to it and stock-up on better deals when they come by- but don't get in a hurry. I have NOW gotten to the point I also just use a certain few powders for all my loads. Reloder 7, 16, 23 and 26 cover most of my calibers but I always have a lb or two of others for my FEW older go-to loads (from 25+ yrs back- like my Partition loads).

So obsess up front, then load up when the deals come along (yes, this can take years). I admit, the box in my story above was a green box of Core-lok that shot many deer and elk (one out to 400 yards) over those dozen or so years of my early youth. But my ammo today can shoot more accurately and this is proven at the range every few months and most importantly: on the hunt which is the final proofing ground for your gun and marksmanship.

I think I can say that the goal for most of us as hunters is to make ethical kills and harvest clean meat. For that I will obsess a little bit but also remember to be happy with a good load, a good gun (and a good wife) when I HAVE one in the hand!

 

[Rich M]

When I see the new guys leaning towards premium bullets, it shows that they are paying attention and want to start out right. For most rifles, it doesn't matter as much.

Then I shoot 357 mag for deer. I shoot Fury and XTP bullet handloads out of it. The XTPs are 100 yard bullets and drop the deer. Haven't shot one with a Fury bullet yet, but they shoot well out to 225 yards (far as I've tried em) and will give full terminal performance at the longer range velocities. So, in essence the bullet gave the 357 mag another 100 yards of killing power for deer hunting. Not too shabby for a 5# gun with 5# of recoil.

Bullets can make a huge diff when you get into specialty stuff like me with the 357 mag - long range, the possibility for having to shoot thru heavy bone, low or high velocities, state laws (no lead), etc.

Do we make too big a deal about it - sure, but we're having fun.

 

[brushape]

It’s rokslide people on here overthink evergthing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stefan]

There are a number of unknowns when hunting and every hunt is different. So, as was mentioned before being able to reduce the amount of unknowns helps, provides a bit of control.

I have seen what is referred to as "paralysis by analysis" among shooters. Sometime good enough is where you need to start.

 

[Kimber7man]

When I saw how well the 6.5 130 Berger hybrid killed deer and antelope, I tried some Berger factory ammo with that bullet in my rifle. When I saw how well it shot, I bought a bunch. Don’t have to try to find primers, powder, brass or bullets now!

 

[Krushrr]

This is my factory ammo timeline. Started off with core lokts 30 yrs ago. Federal at the time was the cheapest of cheap so thumbed my nose at these. Core lokts were bout $2 more per box. Never shot winchester centerfire ammo. Then 10 years ago I tried a few premium loads. Accubonds, partitions, ballistic tips. They work good but double the price and I'm not shooting past 300 yds. Fusion shot excellent groups but not so good results for me on a few whitetails. They were dead deer but not impressed. Well, ammo shortage in 2021 so grabbed some Federal blue box. Darn they shoot really well. Now maybe I'm getting better at marksmanship in general, but I was shooting consistently way back in the late 80's. So now I'm thinking either Federal power shoks or core lokts and run with it. Now for handloading, which I would like to try, is ALL about overthinking/details in my opinion, but that's the fun.

 

[MallardSX2]

Yes, I kill a lot of deer with Yellow Box Cor-Lok 30-06 shells.

They used to be really cheap. lol

If the ammo companies made less offerings we likely wouldn't be in this lack of ammo shortage stage. Every different ammo loading requires tooling changes.

If Winchester made the old school standard loads in 30-06 .308 and so on and so forth like they used to they would be able to roll that ammo out so fast it would make your head spin.


Right now there are hundreds of different loads for every caliber and ammo manufactures are trying to please everyone...this slows down production big time.

 

[Rich M]

This is my factory ammo timeline. Started off with core lokts 30 yrs ago. Federal at the time was the cheapest of cheap so thumbed my nose at these. Core lokts were bout $2 more per box. Never shot winchester centerfire ammo. Then 10 years ago I tried a few premium loads. Accubonds, partitions, ballistic tips. They work good but double the price and I'm not shooting past 300 yds. Fusion shot excellent groups but not so good results for me on a few whitetails. They were dead deer but not impressed. Well, ammo shortage in 2021 so grabbed some Federal blue box. Darn they shoot really well. Now maybe I'm getting better at marksmanship in general, but I was shooting consistently way back in the late 80's. So now I'm thinking either Federal power shoks or core lokts and run with it. Now for handloading, which I would like to try, is ALL about overthinking/details in my opinion, but that's the fun.

My rifles like federal blue box the best of the factory ammo I've used. I use em as quality control when I'm shooting reloads - they are 1-inch ammo at 100 yards (5 shots). Sometimes think that I shoulda just bought 1,000 rounds of these and stopped there instead of "doing better".

 

[Krushrr]

My rifles like federal blue box the best of the factory ammo I've used. I use em as quality control when I'm shooting reloads - they are 1-inch ammo at 100 yards (5 shots). Sometimes think that I shoulda just bought 1,000 rounds of these and stopped there instead of "doing better".

Yup. I'm going with blue box federal from here on out....for whitetails anyways

 

[Lawnboi]

I am actually half way into my quest on finding the perfect match on a couple rifles now. Anybody know anything about the eldx 90 gr performance on deer? Shoots obsesivly perfect.

Shot 7 deer with the 90g eldx out of a 243 a few years ago. Stabilized in a 10 twist and gave good performance. Typical eldx upset made a lot of drt deer.

 

[Krushrr]

My rifles like federal blue box the best of the factory ammo I've used. I use em as quality control when I'm shooting reloads - they are 1-inch ammo at 100 yards (5 shots). Sometimes think that I shoulda just bought 1,000 rounds of these and stopped there instead of "doing better".

Rich- Being that I don't have a chrony and I assume you do, how close are advertised speeds with the currently manufactured power shok loads? I'm thinking the test barrels are 24" for standard long action catridges? I.e. 30-06, 270, 280. My rem 700 280 w/22 in barrel really likes the 150 gr powershoks it seems. I'm thinking i'm losing maybe 70 fps. Just curious. Wouldn't matter for the shooting/hunting I'm doing. FWIW its a 9 1/4 twist factory Rem barrel made about 1987 or 89