Doc says stay away from the red meat

jspradley

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Right? Most guys who eat red meat every day.. probably ate it with two slices of bread and deep fried French fries.

EXACTLY!

Sure a burger from McDonalds is technically red meat but a "meal" with fries cooked in rancid vegetable oil and a half gallon of flavored sugar water isn't the same thing as eating real food that just happens to be red meat

Your doc is operating off of old school information, lots of new research showing real meat ain't bad at all.
 

Mturney

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I was going to jump in on the hormone and antibiotic side but bowieknife50 had already made my point. Now I guess I have to go do some real work.
 

7Bartman

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You have to remember that grass-fed red meat isn't nearly as atherogenic as grain-finished red meat. I'd have no problem with eating elk in your case. As others have mentioned, it is leaner, lower in cholesterol, and great source of vitamins and minerals.
 

Midwest.Bushlore

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You have to remember that grass-fed red meat isn't nearly as atherogenic as grain-finished red meat. I'd have no problem with eating elk in your case. As others have mentioned, it is leaner, lower in cholesterol, and great source of vitamins and minerals.

That's what I was alluding to in a clumsy way when I mentioned antibiotics. Cows didn't evolve to eat corn, they're made to run on grass. The diet they're finished on is to fatten them up and save money, but cows can't survive eating it. That's where the antibiotics come in. They allow a cow to eat an unnatural (for it) diet and gain more weight.

Someone else posted an article but 300 of the worlds biggest rivers have levels of antibiotics considered unsafe for humans. When you consider that 80% of all antibiotics used in the US are used prophylactically, fed to livestock, you begin to see that drug resistance is easy to explain.

As others have mentioned processed meats are way worse than most whole muscle cuts, regardless of what part of the animal you use. Nitrates are a big problem, very unhealthy.
 

Shraggs

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Studies show individuals who eat red meat have a higher incidence of disease. However, when you account that the vast majority of people eat red meat and the same majority of people eat shit food it doesn't mean much. Studies that account for factors like eating junk food and exercise show that people would eat red meat are actually heathier than vegans. Your doc has some old info. The real problem behind chronic disease is inflammatory foods like processed sugars.. if you can grow it or kill it your usually OK.


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Two randomized controlled studies have shown that Atkins based or similar diets emphasizing meat, and high fat content and low carbs had lower rates of cardiovascular events and mortality —- versus traditional diets that suggest limiting high fat lower protein with inclusion for “good” carbs and calorie management.

Personally I believe those who still recommend risk reduction thru reducing meats are not considering all of the available science and trial data. That said farm raised on corn versus natural grass feed is a non brainer. Salmon raised in farm pond and fed corn has significantly less fatty 3 omega s.

Reducing cardiovascular risk imo starts with limiting carbs, eliminating processed foods of any kind, insuring 25-30% fat, be on appropriate lipid lowering medicines and good routine exercise. LDL below 70 preferably at 50...
 
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That's what I was alluding to in a clumsy way when I mentioned antibiotics. Cows didn't evolve to eat corn, they're made to run on grass. The diet they're finished on is to fatten them up and save money, but cows can't survive eating it. That's where the antibiotics come in. They allow a cow to eat an unnatural (for it) diet and gain more weight.

Someone else posted an article but 300 of the worlds biggest rivers have levels of antibiotics considered unsafe for humans. When you consider that 80% of all antibiotics used in the US are used prophylactically, fed to livestock, you begin to see that drug resistance is easy to explain.

As others have mentioned processed meats are way worse than most whole muscle cuts, regardless of what part of the animal you use. Nitrates are a big problem, very unhealthy.

In the past there have been antibiotics fed as growth promoters to animals. FDA has now taken a stand against this and that use will be phased out over the next few years. In my current cattle practice exactly 0% of antibiotics are prescribed for growth promotion, it is all for treating disease.


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5MilesBack

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Cows didn't evolve to eat corn, they're made to run on grass. The diet they're finished on is to fatten them up and save money, but cows can't survive eating it. That's where the antibiotics come in. They allow a cow to eat an unnatural (for it) diet and gain more weight.

We never gave our cattle antibiotics unless they needed it for some sort of infection, which wasn't very often. We fed them a lot of grain in the process before butchering. They never seemed to have any issues with it.
 

NEhunter

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Reducing cardiovascular risk imo starts with limiting carbs, eliminating processed foods of any kind, insuring 25-30% fat, be on appropriate lipid lowering medicines and good routine exercise. LDL below 70 preferably at 50...

So, are you recommending people be on cholesterol lowering drugs that have no history of a heart attack or heart disease?



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handwerk

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yikes, my last 3 dinners all included elk meat...having said that I bet it's been over 10 years since I bought any beef, deer, elk and antelope is the red stuff in our freezer.
 

Shraggs

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So, are you recommending people be on cholesterol lowering drugs that have no history of a heart attack or heart disease?



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There are other risk factors other than already having established cardiovascular disease for certain.

Without CVD
High bad cholesterol ie LDL
Obesity
Smoker
Family history
Age 45 / 50 men/women

As best I recall. This used to be the guidelines - in part based the Framingham study which traced these 5 areas to be main culprit For having an event. Basically if you have 2 of 5 your risk is 20% in 10 years, 3 is 20% in 5 years. Already having an event you survived obviously takes risk for another even higher - I believe it’s 4 times that if the general population who haven’t had an event. The above math for certain escapes me now because guidelines have been so changed and relaxed as the new ACC came to be. My opinion there on the last.

Diabetes is an automatic equivalent to having a event even if you haven’t yet, the risk is that high.

If you’re say 50 and LDL is say 150, and no event - in my opinion yes you should be treated to lower your bad cholesterol. Heart related deaths are the number one killer in the United States. Period. Why wouldn’t you...

Disclaimer I’m not a doctor, but have worked in this field in sales capacity.
 

Trr15

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They also said that smoking causes cancer. My dad smoked a pipe heavily for 60+ years and never got cancer. Lived to almost 90. And he ate a whole gob of red meat in his lifetime as well.

You aren’t suggesting that smoking doesn’t cause cancer are you?


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NEhunter

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There are other risk factors other than already having established cardiovascular disease for certain.

Without CVD
High bad cholesterol ie LDL
Obesity
Smoker
Family history
Age 45 / 50 men/women

As best I recall. This used to be the guidelines - in part based the Framingham study which traced these 5 areas to be main culprit For having an event. Basically if you have 2 of 5 your risk is 20% in 10 years, 3 is 20% in 5 years. Already having an event you survived obviously takes risk for another even higher - I believe it’s 4 times that if the general population who haven’t had an event. The above math for certain escapes me now because guidelines have been so changed and relaxed as the new ACC came to be. My opinion there on the last.

Diabetes is an automatic equivalent to having a event even if you haven’t yet, the risk is that high.

If you’re say 50 and LDL is say 150, and no event - in my opinion yes you should be treated to lower your bad cholesterol. Heart related deaths are the number one killer in the United States. Period. Why wouldn’t you...

Disclaimer I’m not a doctor, but have worked in this field in sales capacity.

Thanks for the reply, I was just curious as this is something I have looked into quite a bit and some newer studies that I have read in the past show that that risk/benefit to using statins due to their potential side effects is not there for those who have not been diagnosed with heart disease or had a heart attack as cholesterol is there for a reason, not just to kill us, however you won’t survive without it. I am not a doctor either so.....


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Shraggs

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Thanks for the reply, I was just curious as this is something I have looked into quite a bit and some newer studies that I have read in the past show that that risk/benefit to using statins is not there for those who have not been diagnosed with heart disease or had a heart attack as cholesterol is there for a reason, not just to kill us, however you won’t survive without it. I am not a doctor either so.....


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Yes. I’ve read toothpaste causes cancer too.

Working in healthcare I tell my family and especially my 80 yr old mom who reads a lot from google and people etc - that if medical information is not derived from actually trail data then it’s opinion or retrospective review of the past. In my experience watching the headlines if these things, their ripe for agenda. Look st who paid for what your wrote.
 

Shraggs

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The data, real data is overwhelming that lower your cholesterol is one if the best things you can do. Don’t smoke, loose weight too. Don’t have a birthday 😊. Basically for roughly 1% drop in LDL you get 1% drop in risk. Do math. Best place to be is where you were as a kid 50-60 ldl. Doesn’t matter what you use to get in lower either.

Cheerios, flaxseed oil, excerise can get you 5-10 points each for example.
 

elkguide

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One of the first questions that my Doctor/neighbor asks when I return from a hunt is...…..

"Did you get any meat that you want to share?!?!"
 
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