Donkeys, Llamas or Goats

[nphunter]

I’ve been considering stock for hunting for the last few years but until recently really didn’t have a place to keep them. We recently bought a place with a two acre pasture, It’s fenced with two strand barb wire on top and hog wire the rest the way to the ground, it keeps my hound dog in so I’m sure goats would be fine.

I’ve looked into donkeys, llamas and goats. I’ve hunted on horses and IMO they aren’t worth the effort, we spent more time walking them than ridding in steep terrain and when using them in snow we’ve constantly had to keep there feet cleaned out from icing up, I could go on and on about issues every time we’ve tried hunting from horses.

My biggest concern is not being able to go where I want. We’re planning a hunt next year where we will be 2 miles and 1500’ up from the nearest cut trail, this is super rugged country and I know there is no way a horse could traverse it and I don’t want to have to base camp and go that far back and forth each day to care for an animal. I assume a donkey will have similar issues as a horse, I thought maybe since they are much smaller and supposably more sure footed maybe they would be better? I have had a hard time researching donkeys and llamas except for the weights they can carry.

How sure footed is a llama? Will it follow in rugged terrain or do you have to limit yourself similar to a horse? I know goats should be able to go where a person can. My concern with goats is whether or not they would be up for hauling out an elk if I go in solo and kill one. Is 6-8 miles and 3-4K feet too much to ask a goat to carry a 50lb pack? Is having to manage 4 goats while hunting going to be worth the couple extra trips it would take to haul a load solo?

We are planning on hunting the area next year with a friend with mules but I already know we will have to park them at the bottom of the drainage and hunt up and down each day which IMO sucks, that’s a lot of extra hiking each day. Having the mules will save us 6-8 trail miles once we get the elk back to camp though which will be awesome assuming we get a couple bulls.

If I end up with goats I’m hoping to just be able to have my pack in day pack mode and have them pack camp around which I typically carry. I get to spend 30-50 days hunting each year so whatever I end up will be getting used, it would also be great to be able to throw my wife and kids gear on an animal, I feel like they would be much more enthusiastic to go on backpacking trips if they didn’t have to pack there gear.

Looking for pros and cons of each from people who have used them.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

I have llamas and they are great trail travelers. Off trail is a bit more challenging as far as route selection and hurdles such as excessive downfall. I probably wouldn't take them where you describe above. Anything that steep and rugged with fully loaded llamas could end in frustration. They can definitely get into a few places that are tough for most horse packers. In my experience the advantages of llamas are that they are low maintenance, relatively easy to handle, and less expensive to own than horses. From your description it sounds like you may want to research goats a bit more.

 

[EastMont]

Off-trail is still difficult with donkeys. Its hard to say if llamas/donkeys could do your off trail spot. Since you didn't mention anything about deadfall or type of ground (rocks, dirt, etc), I would assume that it is all present and it is a mess getting to your spot. Goats might be your better option- (packgoats.com)

Hunting with animals, like you said, is different. Some areas are better backpack spots, and they will always be that way. No sane way to get a few thousand dollars worth of animals and equipment in there. You may be able to get unloaded animals in and do a slow methodical heavy trip out with dead elk.

Coming from a backpack hunters perspective/new stock owner- People who talk about how great llamas/goats/burros are rarely communicate on how they change the way you hunt and how you plan your trips. My animals will never allow me to hunt some of my secret elk hell holes from the door of my tent but they often will let me get a couple miles closer, or find new areas. Or turn a 5 mile pack out into a 1-2 mile to the nearest decent trail.

I look for the sweet spot between day hunters and horse packers. Usually right around the 3-5mile, 1.5k feet mark. At 2 miles I run into day hunters, at 8+ I hit horse camps.

Also it kinda of becomes similar to truck/trailhead camping in that it is tough to stay out all day because you need to come back let animals feed everyday. But this can sometimes be mitigated a bit by packing in feed beforehand.

The biggest advice I give people is go in with a buddy on it all with the relaization that one person will do all the work/maintenance and one person pitches in some money annually. If you don't like the animals/lifestyle you don't eat as much of a money loss, plus the animals can get worked with more hunts. You have a little bit more buying power to buy nicer stuff as well because most pack equipment holds value pretty well as long as it is cared for/not junk.

 

[hobbes]

It really sounds like you are looking for an outfitted drop camp hunt, all the comforts of pack animals without any of the inconveniences. I've used horses and llamas, they all require some work and planning.

 

[nphunter]

It really sounds like you are looking for an outfitted drop camp hunt, all the comforts of pack animals without any of the inconveniences. I've used horses and llamas, they all require some work and planning.

That is defiantly not what I want. We kill bulls every year with our bows on heavy pressured public ground, the last two years in a row I’ve killed a good 6x6 which is my goal every season.

Ideally I would like to be able to have an animal that can be led to the areas we want to hunt and move with us to find or chase elk. I know horses cannot do that as I’ve hunted with them in the high country many times and they are a major PITA and really limit where you can go.

Llamas seem ok but it sounds like they are also limited on where to go. The area I’m planning on hunting outfitters could not get to, to drop me off and a helicopter is against the law because it’s wilderness. There are zero trails into the area hiking or cut trails and it’s pretty steep but open country. There are mule deer, mountain goats and elk in there that I have seen.

I’m really leaning toward getting goats and my wife and kids have already bought off on me getting some just wanted some feedback from others of pros and cons.

I figure it makes since to get opinions of those who have used them instead of just jumping in and buying some.

 

[hobbes]

Just did a weekend with horses that a buddy had rented. I hunted and he took care of horses, so I get the PITA part. I helped but had to just follow his lead because he knows horses and I was along for the ride (I've done it a couple times before) Unless you like the time with horses as much as the hunt, the best thing about horses is after the elk is on the ground.

Llamas do not take as much work as horses from my limited experience, but still require
time each day. I'd be more comfortable leading llamas than horses. They are mountain animals, but can't carry as much as a horse or mule.

I've looked at goats myself, but looks like some guys with goats are hunting with them at their side. I would be nervous about leaving them staked out alone for long. They seem like cat or bear bait if left alone for long. I suppose a llama probably is too.

 

[nphunter]

Off-trail is still difficult with donkeys. Its hard to say if llamas/donkeys could do your off trail spot. Since you didn't mention anything about deadfall or type of ground (rocks, dirt, etc), I would assume that it is all present and it is a mess getting to your spot. Goats might be your better option- (packgoats.com)

Hunting with animals, like you said, is different. Some areas are better backpack spots, and they will always be that way. No sane way to get a few thousand dollars worth of animals and equipment in there. You may be able to get unloaded animals in and do a slow methodical heavy trip out with dead elk.

Coming from a backpack hunters perspective/new stock owner- People who talk about how great llamas/goats/burros are rarely communicate on how they change the way you hunt and how you plan your trips. My animals will never allow me to hunt some of my secret elk hell holes from the door of my tent but they often will let me get a couple miles closer, or find new areas. Or turn a 5 mile pack out into a 1-2 mile to the nearest decent trail.

I look for the sweet spot between day hunters and horse packers. Usually right around the 3-5mile, 1.5k feet mark. At 2 miles I run into day hunters, at 8+ I hit horse camps.

Also it kinda of becomes similar to truck/trailhead camping in that it is tough to stay out all day because you need to come back let animals feed everyday. But this can sometimes be mitigated a bit by packing in feed beforehand.

The biggest advice I give people is go in with a buddy on it all with the relaization that one person will do all the work/maintenance and one person pitches in some money annually. If you don't like the animals/lifestyle you don't eat as much of a money loss, plus the animals can get worked with more hunts. You have a little bit more buying power to buy nicer stuff as well because most pack equipment holds value pretty well as long as it is cared for/not junk.

Thanks, great feedback, I might end up being the buddy with the animals, lol. I don’t mind working with them in the off season. I run a lot of cams and currently live 2 miles from the national forest and 6 miles straight line from the wilderness boundary so it would be pretty easy to get them out for exercise. I guess if I end up getting something trained up and don’t use them much I could always loan them out or rent them. The 2 acres has a creek with water rights and has good feed year round as long as the snow doesn’t get too deep, there’s already an old 3 stall shed too.

Most of the country I’m planning on getting to is about high above tree line country but not in the main trail system. More side drainages that are too rugged to make good hiking trails into without big lakes. These areas tend to hold a lot more animals around here since the wilderness has became such a hot spot destination for summer hikers and campers. All the main drainages have freeways through them from all the foot traffic and are also used in the fall by all the outfitters.

 

[nphunter]

Just did a weekend with horses that a buddy had rented. I hunted and he took care of horses, so I get the PITA part. I helped but had to just follow his lead because he knows horses and I was along for the ride (I've done it a couple times before) Unless you like the time with horses as much as the hunt, the best thing about horses is after the elk is on the ground.

Llamas do not take as much work as horses from my limited experience, but still require
time each day. I'd be more comfortable leading llamas than horses. They are mountain animals, but can't carry as much as a horse or mule.

I've looked at goats myself, but looks like some guys with goats are hunting with them at their side. I would be nervous about leaving them staked out alone for long. They seem like cat or bear bait if left alone for long. I suppose a llama probably is too.

I’ve thought about that too, I’m in OR so no big bears and there probably as likely to get attacked by a lion here at my house. They are becoming quite abundant out here.

I wouldn’t be against hunting with them as long as they didn’t spook the elk too bad. It would defiantly be nice to be hunting shortly out of the tent vs a 2 hour hike in the dark in nasty terrain.

 

[hobbes]

I’ve thought about that too, I’m in OR so no big bears and there probably as likely to get attacked by a lion here at my house. They are becoming quite abundant out here.

I wouldn’t be against hunting with them as long as they didn’t spook the elk too bad. It would defiantly be nice to be hunting shortly out of the tent vs a 2 hour hike in the dark in nasty terrain.

I know the feeling there. Waking up at a hair before dawn to be hunting outside the tent beats the heck out of a 1 hr drive followed by a 2 hr hike.

I'll have at least one llama ready by 2021 when he's of age. I may try the horse rental route next year. Good luck in your search.

 

[Beendare]

I've hunted off of horses and mules and trailed a couple donkeys twice.

my only experience with goats and llamas is bumping into them multiple times in the backcountry and talking with the guys that own them.

My limited commentary; A good riding mule is pretty amazing. I've been on mules going up stepp boulder slopes and I felt safer than on the freeway in traffic. A horse has a very hard time in that as it can't see where to place its hooves.

A potential problem with goats and llamas is getting over deadfall. At least a mule can step over a lot of stuff. I talked to guys with llamas and pack goats. They struggle on off trail stuff with deadfall. Goats can climb stuff...but with a heavy pack on its a different ballgame. The one llama guy was complaining about the deadfall. FWIW, Most of the activity I see with those goats and llamas is on trails.

I will be interested to hear more feedback on these pack animals too.

...

 

[squirrel]

Any animal has it's limitations, as does the hunter leading them. Llamas do not do well in rocks above softball size, anything basketball size or bigger requires exceptional care or an exceptional llama (and there are some). Through forest travel with a good string is a piece of cake as an advanced hobby but should not be attempted until you have a few seasons of experience in more friendly terrain. The beetle kill epidemic changed this dramatically here in the last 10 years, what used to be a pleasant quiet walk in the woods now resembles a logging expedition in progress. One mile is now 5+ due to the zig zag needed.

I was perched on a look out a few years back and watched two horse riders enter beetle kill and was very interested in them not getting through to my side. 3 hours of figure 8's later they retreated never having gotten more than 300 yards from where they entered... and each year it gets worse. They never happened upon my concealed trail.

I tell people that rent from me to pack the meat to a trail rather than try to take the trail to the elk. I do this myself as it is just less work in about 90 % of cases due to elk being obnoxious in where they die when i shoot them.

Poundage varies wildly with individuals and even more so with species, you simply adjust your number of animals or your pounds of gear, you cannot put 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lbs bag.

Hunt later, the trails have been cut by other nimrods. Use more animals, I routinely hike with up to 8 llamas for myself. Animals are like women, if they are miserable they will do their best to make you miserable, if they are happy they still will try but not as hard.

I did a 24 mile loop with almost no trail once we were above trees in the pic below this summer, the hardest most stressful mile was dropping down and finding the trail on the way out, that 1-2 miles was worse than all the rest combined

 

[EastMont]

"I tell people that rent from me to pack the meat to a trail rather than try to take the trail to the elk. I do this myself as it is just less work in about 90 % of cases due to elk being obnoxious in where they die when i shoot them.

Poundage varies wildly with individuals and even more so with species, you simply adjust your number of animals or your pounds of gear, you cannot put 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lbs bag.

Hunt later, the trails have been cut by other nimrods. Use more animals, I routinely hike with up to 8 llamas for myself. Animals are like women, if they are miserable they will do their best to make you miserable, if they are happy they still will try but not as hard.""



^^^^This is gold.

 

[gphil]

Nphunter this thread is old, but did you end up getting goats?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[doc holiday13]

go with goats. at minimum you won't go hungry

 

[Dirtscoots]

go with goats. at minimum you won't go hungry

I’ve never tried goat but there are times it has crossed my mind! Amazing what you will put up with to have a sufficiently lighter pack back.

 

[doc holiday13]

I’ve never tried goat but there are times it has crossed my mind! Amazing what you will put up with to have a sufficiently lighter pack back.

Goat is delicious