Dumb question, but I gotta ask it...

[bguitierez]

Besides the obvious difference in say a standard FMJ and Day Six arrow (that being material) what is the selling point on a day six vs. the FMJ? They are both straight, they both are roughly the same GPI with one slightly skinnier than the other. What gives? Keep in mind I’d like to have a few dozen of both and currently run Black Eagle Spartans. I have no skin in this just curious what other technical archers think


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[Hunthigh1]

FMJ is not very tough. easy to bend the aluminum outer. The main reason i am considering ditching mine for the Day six.

 

[bguitierez]

FMJ is not very tough. easy to bend the aluminum outer. The main reason i am considering ditching mine for the Day six.

I hear ya there. Retaining the straightness was the main factor in switching to the Spartans. That and being able to get a little more FOC without slowing my arrow way down. But I been listening to Snyder’s podcasts talking about the arrows. He’s an authority I listen too 99% of the time. But man 170 for shafts and no components is a tough one to take haha


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[Hunthigh1]

Ya, i aint cheap! Im planning on waiting a few more months to hear some more reviews on them from folks. I think its hard to quantify how "tough" an arrow is. . . I have grown very frustrated with the lack of durability of my FMJ Injexions. I damaged a sight in the field this year and repaired it. In the process of check shooting it at stumps/ soil, i damn near ran out of arrows. . .

I see they offer a "test kit" that you can buy to check out two different spine options. . . that could be good to try out before committing to the full dozen . . .

 

[bguitierez]

Ya, i aint cheap! Im planning on waiting a few more months to hear some more reviews on them from folks. I think its hard to quantify how "tough" an arrow is. . . I have grown very frustrated with the lack of durability of my FMJ Injexions. I damaged a sight in the field this year and repaired it. In the process of check shooting it at stumps/ soil, i damn near ran out of arrows. . .

I see they offer a "test kit" that you can buy to check out two different spine options. . . that could be good to try out before committing to the full dozen . . .

As far as tough goes I’ve only had experience with the 5mm FMJs, regular carbon Axis arrows, and the Spartans. As far as toughness up to this point I give it to the Black Eagles. But I didn’t have to go through sending them into stumps. That sucks bro. All things considered I probably don’t need to switch my set up. My bow likes the Spartans, but I can’t help but want to try the Day Six and shit even the Valkyrie arrows (even though those two are arrows with two different approaches). Being an arrow geek is freaking expensive! Haha


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[Don Qui Puncher]

I assume you have read this thread, id have a hard time dropping that money on them with guys having experiences like that. https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/day-six-arrows.118444/#post-1120358

 

[Beendare]

I assume you have read this thread, id have a hard time dropping that money on them with guys having experiences like that. https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/day-six-arrows.118444/#post-1120358

Why anyone would pay more...for a new companies arrow product....when Easton has been making these things for 60 years plus? Sheesh. Those Easton boys wrote the book on arrows.

That Grizzley Stick is a perfect example...guys pumping these things on the forums like crazy.......and then so many reports of guys spending big $$$$$ on hunts and having them fail. They fell for the hype.

Yeah, Easton is boring....they make good shit day in day out....they don't sponsor a bunch of internet BS.. ..they don't need to.........you almost never hear a complaint unless its user error.

...I just don't get it......now if they were a lot cheaper, it might be worth trying.

Chalk it up to Internet forum hype I guess.

...

...

 

[dkime]

Shaft wise, I’ve had FMJs bend. It’s unfortunate but it’s just part of owning them. If you ignore that, you’re essentially looking at the same arrow. The difference in my mind is components. You can run 75gr HIT inserts in the FMJs which are tried and true. The outsert system on the Day Six shafts offers a little more room for ensuring things are straight. I may catch some flack on that but hear me out. Neither of these insert systems are a press fit onto or into the shafts, they can’t be or else it would remove all epoxy and you’d never be able to install them successfully. So because there is clearance, say it’s around .0025” inches on the diameter or .0013” per side. (I don’t actually know what the clearances are) The insert system has the ability to not run concentric by a certain degree. If the insert/outsert systems are 1” long then that amount of clearance allows for .15 degrees of wobble. (Not much right?) BUT keep in mind we are putting another 1.5” inches of broadhead out in front of that. So by the time we expand the angle out to the top of the broadhead we can be off by .005” in one direction which gives us .010” of runout at the tip of our head. (Another vote for shorter more compact heads) Now before anyone says that you can spin your hit inserts before they dry and accomplish zero runout, please do it and take a video so we can see. I’ve tried and I always end up gluing my field point into the shaft, and if you attempt to unscrew while wet, then you’re probably undoing all of the work you did by spinning them to begin with. The last issue is that with a hit system the shaft needs to be perfectly square or else your not going to seat heads well on the shaft. An outsert addresses that by how it’s manufactured. Swiss machines SHOULD be able to hold extremely tight tolerances assuming the operator does their part. A shaft that uses an outsert doesn’t care so much about shaft squareness because the sidewalks keep the outsert from canting as much. Will they still do it? Sure you bet, but at least you can spin test while wet and understand what you’re getting into.

Does any of this really matter? Honestly probably not. I’m assuming most MFG have increased clearance than what is in my example, so your run out will be more (really makes you wonder why you buy those .001” shafts) So I bought my day six based on durability, and because they’re new and I wanted to see what the hype was about. Will I shoot them forever? Who knows, I’ve got enough commitment issues as it is. Ask my girlfriend


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[bguitierez]

Why anyone would pay more...for a new companies arrow product....when Easton has been making these things for 60 years plus? Sheesh. Those Easton boys wrote the book on arrows.

That Grizzley Stick is a perfect example...guys pumping these things on the forums like crazy.......and then so many reports of guys spending big $$$$$ on hunts and having them fail. They fell for the hype.

Yeah, Easton is boring....they make good shit day in day out....they don't sponsor a bunch of internet BS.. ..they don't need to.........you almost never hear a complaint unless its user error.

...I just don't get it......now if they were a lot cheaper, it might be worth trying.

Chalk it up to Internet forum hype I guess.

...

...

That’s a pretty dam good point my man.


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[bguitierez]

Shaft wise, I’ve had FMJs bend. It’s unfortunate but it’s just part of owning them. If you ignore that, you’re essentially looking at the same arrow. The difference in my mind is components. You can run 75gr HIT inserts in the FMJs which are tried and true. The outsert system on the Day Six shafts offers a little more room for ensuring things are straight. I may catch some flack on that but hear me out. Neither of these insert systems are a press fit onto or into the shafts, they can’t be or else it would remove all epoxy and you’d never be able to install them successfully. So because there is clearance, say it’s around .0025” inches on the diameter or .0013” per side. (I don’t actually know what the clearances are) The insert system has the ability to not run concentric by a certain degree. If the insert/outsert systems are 1” long then that amount of clearance allows for .15 degrees of wobble. (Not much right?) BUT keep in mind we are putting another 1.5” inches of broadhead out in front of that. So by the time we expand the angle out to the top of the broadhead we can be off by .005” in one direction which gives us .010” of runout at the tip of our head. (Another vote for shorter more compact heads) Now before anyone says that you can spin your hit inserts before they dry and accomplish zero runout, please do it and take a video so we can see. I’ve tried and I always end up gluing my field point into the shaft, and if you attempt to unscrew while wet, then you’re probably undoing all of the work you did by spinning them to begin with. The last issue is that with a hit system the shaft needs to be perfectly square or else your not going to seat heads well on the shaft. An outsert addresses that by how it’s manufactured. Swiss machines SHOULD be able to hold extremely tight tolerances assuming the operator does their part. A shaft that uses an outsert doesn’t care so much about shaft squareness because the sidewalks keep the outsert from canting as much. Will they still do it? Sure you bet, but at least you can spin test while wet and understand what you’re getting into.

Does any of this really matter? Honestly probably not. I’m assuming most MFG have increased clearance than what is in my example, so your run out will be more (really makes you wonder why you buy those .001” shafts) So I bought my day six based on durability, and because they’re new and I wanted to see what the hype was about. Will I shoot them forever? Who knows, I’ve got enough commitment issues as it is. Ask my girlfriend


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Wow dude. Thank you for that. I’ll have to re-read a few times. Haha.


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[5MilesBack]

I didn't like the durability of the FMJ's (i.e. bending within the first few weeks), and I don't like .165" ID arrows. That scratches both of these off the list. I would love it though if someone would come out with a super tough weaved carbon arrow with .204" ID that was ~12gpi in a .250 spine in .001" straightness or better with matching spine tolerances.

 

[Arctic Hunter]

Why anyone would pay more...for a new companies arrow product....when Easton has been making these things for 60 years plus? Sheesh. Those Easton boys wrote the book on arrows.

That Grizzley Stick is a perfect example...guys pumping these things on the forums like crazy.......and then so many reports of guys spending big $$$$$ on hunts and having them fail. They fell for the hype.

Yeah, Easton is boring....they make good shit day in day out....they don't sponsor a bunch of internet BS.. ..they don't need to.........you almost never hear a complaint unless its user error.

...I just don't get it......now if they were a lot cheaper, it might be worth trying.

Chalk it up to Internet forum hype I guess.

...

...

This is true.

I've shot a lot of different arrows over the last 25 years. I always end up back with Easton.

The longer I do this, the less I buy in to hype. Rarely is there not some alterior motive involved.....

 

[Beendare]

Yeah,
The key to these components is the overlap. For example, the HIT inserts are pretty long [lots of overlap] compared to a standard insert. Plus, it is drawing from further inside the shaft...not just the last 3/4". Those HIT inserts are piggybacking on apps 2" of arrow shaft. ...longer is better.

The problems I've seen getting my BH's straight were with the shorter std inserts or outserts on the old Beman Hunters. Then add any manufacturing inconsistency- and they wobble.

The HITS have the advantage of a med. epoxy. If you spin the insert multiple times while inserting, you get an even layer insuring that you are borrowing from the shafts straightness.

I'm surprised someone hasn't come out with a 3" insert. I see the outsert guys finally figured out they need more overlap with these new longer outserts- a must have IMO if you are using the skinny shafts.

All it takes is a little runout on these shafts...then the short insert borrowing the crookedness from that runout to impart a PITA wobble to your BHs.

 

[dkime]

Yeah,
The key to these components is the overlap. For example, the HIT inserts are pretty long [lots of overlap] compared to a standard insert. Plus, it is drawing from further inside the shaft...not just the last 3/4". Those HIT inserts are piggybacking on apps 2" of arrow shaft. ...longer is better.

The problems I've seen getting my BH's straight were with the shorter std inserts or outserts on the old Beman Hunters. Then add any manufacturing inconsistency- and they wobble.

The HITS have the advantage of a med. epoxy. If you spin the insert multiple times while inserting, you get an even layer insuring that you are borrowing from the shafts straightness.

I'm surprised someone hasn't come out with a 3" insert. I see the outsert guys finally figured out they need more overlap with these new longer outserts- a must have IMO if you are using the skinny shafts.

All it takes is a little runout on these shafts...then the short insert borrowing the crookedness from that runout to impart a PITA wobble to your BHs.

What I cannot understand is why someone has not developed a taper on the front end of the insert to ensure concentricity. It would be costly for a QC perspective but it can definitely be done


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[Hunthigh1]

It sounds like I’m not the only one here that is disappointed in FMJ (mine are 4mm fmj injexions). I think this is why so many folks are intrigued by the day six claims of extreme durability. Its certainly attractive to me!

However I agree, they need a lot more time under their belt before I’m likely to buy them. (I’m not rich)

With that said, what’s the best option for those of us with FMJ’s that are sick of broken arrows? And want to run skinny shafts?

Easton carbon injection with some kind of insert or footer?


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[Btaylor]

I am just curious here but how often are you breaking shafts? What are you shooting to cause the number of broken shafts to be a concern? That I can remember I have only broken 2 that didnt involve a critter being shot. I dont count shafts that get broken in the process of killing something because that was its purpose in the first place.

 

[Hunthigh1]

This season I fell and damaged my sight while beginning the early approach of a stalk. I super glued the site in the field and then did some stump shooting/ shot some soft dirt to check them. I broke 2, bent 2. This plus 3 arrows lost to grouse misses this year and I’m considering something different. The breaks are one thing but I’m annoyed by dented/ bent outer aluminum shafts of the fmj. I’ll be honest these are the ONLY arrows I’ve ever shot. So I don’t have any comparison to something like the Axis. . . I may have excessive expectations. Stump shooting with a 66lb compound may just not be an option......


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[Trial153]

I spend money like fool on all things related to bowhunting. Crazy arrow systems are really the worst. the downside of the front end systems of the micro shafts are just nowhere worth the expense and hassle that comes with it.

 

[Arctic Hunter]

I prefer the durability of the axis shafts over the weight of the fmjs. Aluminum is aluminum no matter if you wrap it in carbon or not. It dents and bends as you would expect. That's why most people quit shooting aluminum shafts to begin with. The ACCs were slightly better to me, however I had some similar issues with them.

You can tell a difference in the carbon shafts when you start cutting them. Axis shafts are harder to cut than some other brands and in my opinion are a great choice for a skinny shaft.

Just my opinion from what I've seen.

 

[Hunthigh1]

I spend money like fool on all things related to bowhunting. Crazy arrow systems are really the worst. the downside of the front end systems of the micro shafts are just nowhere worth the expense and hassle that comes with it.

So, with that said. What do you shoot?


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