((In case anyone is interested in jumping to the review, it starts at 4:15))
Congrats on the draws! Also, nice Core4Element Assault shirt. How'd you like that?
Great review. I've been shooting the FMJ and was about to cut a new dozen but I've been waiting to hear about the injexion. Thanks for doing the review. I'm hoping the NAP insert will allow me to use the Grim Reaper or that Grim Reaper will come out with a broadhead that will work with the injexion.
Since I've not really shot anything other than the Grim Reaper, what broadhead would you suggest that is similar to the GR in performance, flight and killing which is an expandable that is currently ready to work with this arrow?
Nothing against Easton and I have used Easton shafts for years. But I would think someone is crazy to buy the injection shafts over the Victory VAP shafts. The Victory shafts are cheaper and also are less GPI at the same spine as the Injection shafts. Which leads me to believe they are using higher grade materials in the shaft. The only draw back on the Victory shafts is buying the stainless steel insert/outserts & they are made in Mexico "I think". Then again the Injection shafts require you to buy all new heads to match their inserts. Anyway just my 2 cents worth. I have some VAP's setup for my longbow going to be using the 340 spine shafts with 90 grain stainless inserts and 200 grain VPA heads.. Good luck this season.
OK.. Let me stress that if you like and TRUST the GR then get the inserts and stay with those. IMO broadheads are all about TRUST. There are a ton of heads out there that are really good... I am going to get the inserts and stay with my Silver Flames...
Regarding the Victory arrows, I can't get those locally and that is a big deal to me.. if I am on a hunting trip or just pounding the target in the back yard it is nice to know that I can get the arrows with little problems. There have been times with I am in the middle of nowhere hunting and I need a few arrows and it would be a drag to have to retune a bow if I couldn't get the arrows that I was originally hunting with...
I know you probably get your shafts from Easton for free or a reduced cost but damn, I bought my Victory shafts on Ebay for $60.00 a dozen. Injection shafts are like $300.00 a dozen? I'm not trying to start a pissing match but personally I think the Easton shafts are way way way over priced. I wish they would realize the average bow hunter can't afford to spend that much money when another company offers the exact same shaft for less than half.
They are definitely not cheap... The Injexion carbons are at least $60 less than the A/C Injexions. They are amazing arrows made with the highest grade materials - some of which Easton actually formulated themselves specifically for arrows. They're also made in the USA. I think for a hunting arrow, higher GPI - grans per inch is a big advantage - more penetration. If you're a speed demon, you can use A/C/E shafts with the Injexion components. They're one of the lightest shafts for the spine made, but only go as stiff as .370. Cut an inch off the back and they become a .340 though and 2" probably is about .320 spine. A/C/E's are barrel shaped arrows and the tail section is weaker than the center. This reduces wind drift for competitive field archers. Many medals were won with the A/C/E when they were first developed. It's the father of the X-10 shafts that basically own all outdoor olympic and field archery records.
I definitely wish they were more affordable - I was pretty disappointed when I saw the price tag. But if you can afford them, I think they probably are the ultimate hunting shaft available. They are just extremely expensive to manufacture. I have actually seen Easton's A/C arrow process and can tell you first hand that it's labor intensive and requires skilled technicians. The results speak for themselves...
I got impatient and called Grim Reaper. One of their guys used the 100gr 1 38" GR Razortip expandable with the Injexion last year on an elk he killed and what he did was use the Victory VAP insert in the Injecxion arrow. So I might give that a try if I switch from the FMJ to the Injexion.
What Jamaro said about trust is how I feel about Easton arrows - made in SLC, UT with the finest materials available, pushing innovation and technology in both carbon constructed tubes, aluminum constructed tubes as well as arrows with both materials. I can't find anywhere on the Victory site regarding where their arrows are made, but I hope it's USA made. Either way, I'm not posting to say Easton is better than Victory as I've not shot the later, but when it comes to training all year, shooting, getting the gear to make the hunt a success and that one shot presents itself, I'm super stoked and more importantly CONFIDENT to have Easton in the quiver.
I'm with J!!! If I can't get them locally I am not getting them...too many things can happen in the backcountry.
I agree with Coop that I was a little disappointed in the price tag BUT I can't say that I didn't know it was coming...its an X10 for hunting and I know the $$$ on X10s!!! I can't wait to get my hands on some Injexions...A/Cs would be fabulous.
Coop...tell me more about the A/C/Es and cutting off the back end to stiffen up the shaft and use the Deep Six components!!! That has me interested.
Thank you.... I think making these videos is alot of fun and it challenges me to really think about things... I will be the first one to admit that in the past I have "Chased Sexy" or chased things that everybody else was using... For example... I went to the shorter higher profile vanes... They were fine but I really believe that they were a product of marketing.... After really testing.... I mean really looking at all the options I can't say that they are any better than anything else...
On my bow I have a sticker that I had made up and it says... "Confidence is Deadly"
For me that means that I have complete confidence is ALL of my Gear and ALL of my Training... It is up to ME to make the shot... I don't care if it is a 20 yard shot at paper or a 50 yard shot on a Coues Deer.. Everything thing that I have done... EVERYTHING has led up to the point of MY SHOT. I have controlled everything that I CAN CONTROL...
Like the X10, the A/C/E is a barrel shaped shaft so it tapers at the ends. On both these shafts there is a long parallel section in the front, then a tapering section where the diameter gets bigger, then a parallel fat section in the middle, then it tapers back down on the tail section to a final parallel section that is much shorter in the back end. If you cut the back end of the shaft it stiffens the arrow faster than the front. The more flexible tail section was really designed for the finger release of recurve finger shooters - the stiff middle helped the arrows recover faster. What compound tournament archers found pretty quickly was they were having better results with cutting an inch or two or three off the back and removing most of the weak tail section. This eventually led to the birth of the X10 Pro Tour which is actually a parallel shaft in the rear that is stiffer than the rear of the old X10.
The A/C/E shares the same aluminum core tube as the new Injexion. Also the Navigator arrow. Therefore, you can actually put Injexion components in the A/C/E and Navigator arrows and turn them into hunting shafts. I mentioned cutting length off the back of the A/C/E just to help stiffen the arrows since anyone shooting these for target probably was shooting a lot less draw weight than their hunting rig. I shot .430's forever before X10's so I probably have 6 dozen or so kicking around. Not sure if I can cut much more off them, but I usually shot them with 2" off the back so they are probably pretty close to .350 or .370 spine now anyway. The rule of thumb was that you would jump one spine value for each inch cut off. As I recall, A/C/E's come in .620, .570, .520, .470, .430, .400, and .370 spine - there are lighter ones too, but you wouldn't dare hunt with those.
If you aren't sure how much is cut off the tail, stand them on the nock end and compare to an uncut shaft. The logos are the datum point on the arrow so if the logos are lower on the cut shaft than they are on the new shaft then measure the difference in the logo to see how much is cut off.
Easton actually made an outsert and broadhead combo for this arrow back in the day - the thread was a 6-32. It didn't catch on... Low and behold, 20 years later and look what a bitchin' idea this is!!! Maybe they will go all the way and make the X-10 Pro Hunter!!! That would be the BOMB! And... I would happily launch them at unsuspecting animals many furlongs away.
Jamaro - I happen to know a guy who knows some guys at Easton and we were chatting about the injexion. I showed him the video (which he thought was good) and he mentioned a couple of things that added to what you said that I think are worth mentioning.
Deep Six actually refers to the thread pattern not that there are “6 Broadheads available” as you mentioned. Perhaps if there are six now it is simply coincidence as the guys at Easton suspect there will be many more BH’s available soon from a number of companies that have said they will be building them.
The reason for the Deep Six treads and steel insert is because Easton had to make a smaller diameter insert to fit in the smaller diameter shaft which led to the new insert and Broadheads. Because it’s smaller and has smaller threads it was made in steel so that it would reach Easton's strength requirements. Also because it’s steel, it is 4 grains heavier than an Axis Hit insert, but that’s kind of a rounding error when it’s paired with a 100 or 125 grain point.
The penetration improvement comes from the smaller diameter like what you said in addition to the comments that D Cooper said above. Diameter is a big factor in penetration along with kinetic energy stored. Basically, a smaller diameter, heavier shaft will penetrate more. You can’t go too heavy, but as long as you keep the speed reasonable, heavier is better. Add to that the Easton testing and experience has shown that broadheads just fly better and group better on heavier arrows.
Anyway, I don't want to take away from the great video you produced and hope I didn't with these comments. I'm glad you did it because it's good that it brings out the continued discussion. Of course the real result will be when the season is over and the elk/deer/moose are on the ground.
On another note concerning these arrows - I have mentioned it before, but I would highly recommend cutting off the factory wrap and either fletching directly on the shaft or adding your own vinyl wraps - like some Rokslide wraps!! The factory wrap is just heavy and relatively brittle. Several of mine cracked from impacts and I think they weighed about 17 grains! Most vinyl wraps are about 4 - 8 grains depending on length and thickness.
The deep-six insert is threded 6-40 which is a custom thread... Not sure why they did not use a 6-32 which is a standard thread other than supposedly more thread engagement. I haven't noticed any improvement with field points loosening over a standard 8-32. I would love to see a break-off insert for these arrows so you could get more FOC, but maybe that's in the works for the future.