Elevation shims/mounts, need more MOA.

[Jasent]

100% correct on your side and 100% brain fart on my side.

We all have them

 

[packer58]

No one has mentioned this that iv'e read.......don't go crazy with the MOA on your rings or rail because there's a possibility you may run out of elevation adjustment to get a 100 yard zero depending on the scope.

 

[Wrench]

I have several sets of the zee insert rings. You could put 40moa in the rings.....plus you can shim windage if necessary.

Burris 1 Signature Ring Pos-Align Offset Inserts Installation Kit

These offset inserts work only in Burris Signature Rings. One insert half is slightly thicker and the other slightly thinner than standard. Swapping the...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[35WhelenAI]

No problems, we all have those moments. To recap:

Post #1 details the situation, post # 13 is the follow-up after remediing the situation.

Post #14 and beyond is my speculating on another way to handle the situation with the same 20 moa inserts and the method jasent has used to shim bases from his experience.

With respect to post #22, I did the math (counted clicks on the turret, used Leupold specs, etc) and the scope is 15 moa for a full turn. I had just a bit less than a full turn of elevation remaining on the new scope when mounted. 20 moa gives what I needed, about 1 1/3 turns additional adjustment on the elevation in addition to the almost one full turn that was remaining before 20 moa inserts.

The the scope is just a bit past midpoint with respect to up elevation adjustment when boresighted to the same relative reading as the previous scope before removal.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Went to the indoor range today. Went ahead and put the -20MOA shim on the bottom front (drops the front the same as putting the +20 on the bottom rear). After a few adjustments, got it 1.5" high at 100 yds with my hunting load of a 200 TTSX @2925 fps from the 35 Whelen AI. That gives a calculated 200 yd zero.

There are 1 1/3 turns of up adjustment left at this point. The Leupold VX3HD CDS ZL needs one full turn to use it to max effect. Is 1/3 turn remaining after a full turn encroaching on issues with consistency, as that is approaching the mechanical limit of the scope? I could put a 10 moa insert in the rear ring for a bit more leeway. Or go another 20 moa and be dialing up through the center of the scope's adjustment.

Or am I doing this all wrong wanting to be able to use a 200 yd zero/6" low at 300 yds (an easy hold adjustment to make for me) and use the dial for the longer shots? Is it standard to zero at 100 yards and dial from there? I get one custom turret cap from Leupold so wanting some recommendations.

The bullet is at the 2000 fps threshold I use for consistent expansion at just past 500 yds, and has 40.6" of drop at 500 yds based on 1.5" high at 100 yds and 7000' elevation where the range is located. Therefore, wouldn't be dialing past 500 yds.

Any pointers based on that information are appreciated. As well, is there a calculator/website to enter those parameters and it would tell me what I'm going to need for adjustment to get dialed out to 500 yds with a 200 yd zero?


Definitely a newb at dialing turrets.

 

[Wrench]

I'd shim for most usable correction....unless I didn't intend to use it.

 

[nobody]

One important thing to remember is that if you turn in the voucher for your CDS dial is that with the VX3 series, once you put the custom turret on, you're locked into about 3/4 of a turn on your elevation dial no matter where you are in your total elevation travel. You could have 20 more rotations worth of elevation travel left in your erector, but your custom dial will choke you to about 10 MOA of total vertical travel. So as long as you have about 10 MOA worth of travel left, that's all you'll need anyways and all you'll have the option to use. If you want more than that, you'll have to jump to the VX5 series to get more than one rotation.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Thanks for the info fellas. My instinct tells me to shim more as well, debating whether 10 or 20MOA. 10 moa, roughly, will leave two full turns of up elevation, so it would be starting at mechanical center, again roughly. I would feel comfortable with turret rotation that leaves one full turn of adjustment within the scope even though I cannot access it with the CDS. It's just the principle of having the adjustments closer to mechanical center than toward the limits.

With that said, could I take the +20 that is paired with the -20 up front and move the +20 from the top front to the bottom rear and use the standard zero moa inserts on top? Or does that leave too much potential slop?

My understanding and from what I physically have seen, the CDS cap that came with it has one full turn available. I would gather the custom cap is made for whatever I choose as the zero mark, and increasing yardage is dialed from there up to one full turn, like the CDS cap that came with it?

I gather from what you said, nobody, I am not gonna need to dial in anywhere near a full turn (with a 200 yd zero) for about 40 inches of drop at 500 yards, is that accurate? There are basically 60 clicks per rotation.

 

[nobody]

Thanks for the info fellas. My instinct tells me to shim more as well, debating whether 10 or 20MOA. 10 moa, roughly, will leave two full turns of up elevation, so it would be starting at mechanical center, again roughly. I would feel comfortable with turret rotation that leaves one full turn of adjustment within the scope even though I cannot access it with the CDS. It's just the principle of having the adjustments closer to mechanical center than toward the limits.

With that said, could I take the +20 that is paired with the -20 up front and move the +20 from the top front to the bottom rear and use the standard zero moa inserts on top? Or does that leave too much potential slop?

My understanding and from what I physically have seen, the CDS cap that came with it has one full turn available. I would gather the custom cap is made for whatever I choose as the zero mark, and increasing yardage is dialed from there up to one full turn, like the CDS cap that came with it?

It's not quite one full turn. If I recall correctly, the CDS and CDS-ZL turrets on the VX3, VX3i, and the VX3HD have 12 MOA per full rotation, and every single one I've set up gets about 10 MOA total once the CDS dial is installed. The stock turret gives you slightly more. I've done a few of them on rifles for myself and family, this has been the case every time, 10 MOA and then there is a hard mechanical stop that can't be overcome no matter what. So if you zero at 200, you can get to whatever distance 10 MOA will get you, I'm guessing about 500 yards with that 35 whelen at most.

The CDS-ZL2 dials on the VX5 and 6 should ***theoretically*** give you 2 rotations, but it's about 1 3/4 rotations in real world land. The -ZL3 dials give you about 2 3/4 rotations is all.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Leupold specs on their website as 15 MOA per rotation, and 14.5 MOA for the rotation of the CDS dial with ZL (3.5-10 x 40 VX3HD). That's what I get with the standard cap that comes with the scope. Interesting the custom dial would be more limiting.

With the Burris rings, can I use the -20 moa half up front on the bottom, the +20 moa half on the bottom rear and use the standard "0" inserts on the top, or would that not provide the correct support of the scope?

Currently I have the -20 on the front bottom and the +20 on top front as a set and the standard inserts top and bottom in the rear.

 

[nobody]

Leupold specs on their website as 15 MOA per rotation, and 14.5 MOA for the rotation of the CDS dial with ZL (3.5-10 x 40 VX3HD). That's what I get with the standard cap that comes with the scope. Interesting the custom dial would be more limiting.

Yeah it's BS for sure, really pissed me off when I started messing with them. And sorry I mispoke, you are correct on the MOA/rotation, it SHOULD be 15 but comes out to about 12. My cousin-in-law shooting a .270 only gets 12 MOA now that I'm remembering clearly. It's obnoxious for sure, it's one of the reasons I've moved away from the VX series of scopes for future setups.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Gotcha, thanks for the heads up to what I will find with the custom cap.