ELK 101: Botched Hunts/Definition of a guide/Outfitters

[Indian Summer]

sorry indian summer but I don't full agree to that. I would tend to think that no matter how seasoned you are it is always good to keep tabs on your animals unless your hunting a high fence. animals can change their patterns and we all know that. Maybe I am not an elk guide but I don't fully believe that you can just show up having not really put some time in at some point and just say hey lets go and be somewhat successful.

Nope. Elk commonly relocate every 3-10 days. Not to the next county just a ridge or two over. Any elk guide who has a few seasons of hunting knows their favorite spots. And he DEFINITELY did his homework for rifle season during bow and muzzy season so based on that year... dry/wet, cold/warm or whatever the factor he has an idea of what’s going on. It’s not deer hunting! I’ve told a hundred clients that. When you said it seemed more like scouting than hunting I smiled. Lots of deer hunters say that. What he’s doing is his milk run. From high percentage spot to high percentage spot.

I’ve hunted Wyoming for the past 9 years. But believe me when I tell you I could guide you in Montana tomorrow morning without any scouting. We’d have fun too! That’s the other thing.... not all guides are fun to spend a week with. Sometimes even the best of them are quiet and downright boring. I agree with the above post that said communication is HUGE.

A good friend of mine... new to elk hunting, was with me 2 years ago. It’s easier for friends to communicate than it is a guide and a paying client. I shot an elk with him standing beside me. He said to me “I didn’t know we were even hunting. I thought we were just on our way to a hunting spot”. As a great deer hunter he just couldn’t imagine covering that much ground and being effective. Back in Pa you’d never kill a buck walking around like that!

Archery and rifle are night and day. You have to find elk to hunt or kill them. In September you can hear them. In gun season you cover ground and glass if the area allows until you lay eyes on them. Basically replace your calls and ears with boot leather and binoculars.

I hope you let us know what the outfitter has to say. I’ve been a guide, an outfitter, a client, and a DIY hunter so I definitely pause and see things from all perspectives before forming an opinion.

Maybe you’re just not wired for gun hunting. It’s all or nothing. There are more elkless gun hunts than there are elkless bow hunts. Bow hunting for several reasons is much more enjoyable if you don’t kill an elk.

 

[CorbLand]

Could I see an outfitter/guide "throwing" a hunt? Yes. Do I think its very probable? No.

We don't have enough information to determine whether or not that is what happened to you. We don't know the guide, the area, how much pressure, etc. All of those are variables in the most effective ways to hunt.

I am not a guide nor have I even been one but I have a lot of friends that are. There is only one that I could see "throwing" a hunt but even at that, he wouldn't take you where no elk are, he just wouldn't take you to the area with the big ones.

We see these threads every year. Someone goes on a hunt and doesn't kill one and thinks they got screwed. I am not saying that is what you are saying but that is how these threads come across. Honestly, you sound like you mind is already made up about this outfitter and you came here looking for validation. 90% of threads like this people will defend the outfitter. Why? Because of what I said above and has been said many times. People pay money for outfitters, dont kill something and think the outfitter screwed them. Outfitters don't pay based on the number of animals killed. It doesn't matter to them if you kill one or don't for their bottom line. In fact, you killing one early and going home makes them more money.

Once again, not saying this is what you doing but this is how it comes across.

Based off the information that you gave, it sounds like how you rifle hunt for elk. You don't have to be as quiet as for deer or even archery hunting elk. Busting through trees and pushing elk out into the open is an effective way to kill them with a rifle. Covering ground and glassing is a very effective way of killing elk with a rifle. Sitting water with a rifle? Probably not that effective as they aren't as dependent on water that time of year or they may only be hitting water at nights.

Running cameras for elk during rifle season isnt that effective. I am not saying that you shouldnt do it but its not the end all be all to finding elk. Why do they run them for archery season? Because that time of year lends themselves useful. Elk aren't traveling far from feed and water during the summer. Once the rut hits, its a completely different story. I had an elk on camera this year that traveled 12 miles to a completely different unit during the rut. After the rut, find the deepest, darkest, steepest area you can find. That's where the elk are. Want to find elk country post rut? Ask yourself where the last place you want to pack an elk out of.

I don't know what time period this hunt took place but calling is really only effective during the rut and most rifle hunts are post rut. You can get elk to bugle in mid to late October but its rare. If its a high pressured unit, bugling that late can also tell elk that's a person, run the other way.

 

[Next Ridge]

Time.
To.
Move.
On.
Sometimes you get a lemon. Ask the guide for money back. If yes, cool. If not, move on. DIY or find better outfitter.

 

[Deadfall]

Do you mind sending me a pm? I'm looking to book an outfitter and I have a few questions

I dont mind. Pm sent

 

[2ski]

Weird how many people scout in July for the upcoming season....guess they're doing it wrong....should be out scouting the days prior to every individual hunt.

To me, every time a guy goes out in season he's hunting first and foremost, but he's learning/scouting too. The guide hunted and scouted all through muzzle and archery. He continues the same thing. Learning and adapting as he goes. Smart.

I always find it funny when people won't post names. Honestly I wonder if it means they're embellishing a little. Or feel slighted and want to complain but know they don't have a basis to go to the owner. After I read your first post, I thought, "this is a guy thats upset he didn't tag out so he's going to accuse the guide of throwing the hunt". I'm not saying it is the case. Just my initial thought after your first post.

I can totally see a guide pandering to a rich client that comes every year and tips well. But I have a hard time with a guide throwing a hunt. I just don't see it. You could've/ probably did have a crappy guide. But throwing a hunt is a stretch. I also wondered if, because you had hunted with the guide before and not complained about him and (by your own words) tipped well, maybe the rich dude requested Rocky for his friends and since you had a history with the other guide, they thought it would work the way it went. Plus your guide probably wanted more of that good tip. (Insert that's what she said joke about good tip)

You posted this originally on the 23rd. Its the 30th. I assume in that week's time you have contacted the guide and brought forth your issues and concerns to him, right? Easy to come here and bemoan the outfitter. But calling him takes more courage right? There's a phone between you and him. He can't come through the phone and get you. At this point you're not going back to that outfitter. So you don't have anything to be afraid of. Take two deep breaths and hit send. You got this! Courage!

Real talk here. I'll be honest man, you come across as a little whiny. You may have some legitimate beefs but the way you present yourself just makes me question your take as a result. People have said things in this thread, I think you should've gotton irritated about. You've only got defensive and doubled down on your complaining. Or complained you don't want to talk about DIY(but you know more than the guide but still need a guide) When/if you call the outfitter, I would practice what I'm going to say before hand. If I had someone come to me and whine about my employee, I'd automatically get a little protective of my employee. As I read through your comments, if you came to me this way,, my instinct would be to have my employee's back. Just being real with you. I've been there and thats what I've done. You learn to read people and their style of complaining and make your judgment based on that. I trust my gut. Alot.

I will also add, I was just on the phone with someone that complained to me about something, and didn't want to hear rational thoughts. Just wanted to be reactive and go by how they felt. So I may sound a little harsher than I normally would.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Scouting and cameras have been mentioned a lot. I don’t know everywhere but In most of Wyoming, July and August scouting for September archery is worthless. Elk move a lot through the year. Where they are during archery isn’t always where they are during rifle.

Scouting isn’t always necessary either. If a guide knows the area he knows the hotspots. I scout maybe 2 days prior to season. Then I’m out so much scouting is just hunting. During rifle it’s all about get you high and look.

I think (not saying this is the OP case) a lot of non-elk hunters look at elk hunting the wrong way. Elk hunting is scouting all day until you find them. Then it turns into how to get them in range.