Elk anatomy shot placement

feanor

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Does anybody have actual photos or a link to an article of an elk they have skinned and basically peeled away the meat to show the vitals? Im looking for a dissection of an elk for shot placement. I know there are a few overlays out there, but it seems like they vary quite a bit on how far forward the lungs are etc.
 

hobbes

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This is pretty good info and shows a good depiction of the frontal structure:

"The Anatomy of An Elk: Proper knowledge of shot angles and placement is “vital” - Western Hunter" https://westernhunter.net/tactics/t...wledge-of-shot-angles-and-placement-is-vital/

I think this is more accurate on spinal structure from a broadside view.

Screenshot_20200713-193857.png

There was a discussion about heart vs. double lung a while ago. I'm not sure how you get heart without hitting the lungs on a broadside shot.

As far as how far forward. The leading edge of lung is typically covered by the front leg and shoulder bones. Ahead of that is neck on a straight broadside shot (same for deer) unless his leg is significantly back while in motion. You need a quartered to or frontal shot to find the leading edge of lung. You can find lots of debate on that.
 
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S.Clancy

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The Elk 101 video on placement and frontals includes some dissection. Best I’ve seen on the topic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Laramie

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This is pretty good info and shows a good depiction of the frontal structure:

"The Anatomy of An Elk: Proper knowledge of shot angles and placement is “vital” - Western Hunter" https://westernhunter.net/tactics/t...wledge-of-shot-angles-and-placement-is-vital/

I think this is more accurate on spinal structure from a broadside view.

View attachment 197036

There was a discussion about heart vs. double lung a while ago. I'm not sure how you get heart without hitting the lungs on a broadside shot.

As far as how far forward. The leading edge of lung is typically covered by the front leg and shoulder bones. Ahead of that is neck on a straight broadside shot (same for deer) unless his leg is significantly back while in motion. You need a quartered to or frontal shot to find the leading edge of lung. You can find lots of debate on that.
The lungs go a bit further back than this image shows. 3" behind the shoulder is a great aiming point for broadside and leaves you several inches of room in all directions. As far as how far forward, they go a ways into archery no man's land from broadside. Frontal shots can be amazingly quick kills but plenty turn into wounded/lost elk so don't recommend that if you are asking beginner questions about elk anatomy. Stick to broadside/ quartering away behind the shoulder shots and save yourself the headaches.
 

S.Clancy

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The lungs go a bit further back than this image shows. 3" behind the shoulder is a great aiming point for broadside and leaves you several inches of room in all directions. As far as how far forward, they go a ways into archery no man's land from broadside. Frontal shots can be amazingly quick kills but plenty turn into wounded/lost elk so don't recommend that if you are asking beginner questions about elk anatomy. Stick to broadside/ quartering away behind the shoulder shots and save yourself the headaches.
Good point. You should have a number of dead elk by broadside hits before even thinking about attempting a frontal.
 

Laramie

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Is a person's ability to shoot degraded by a low number of elk kills?
No but their knowledge of elk, and elk reactions increases the more they hunt them. The frontal shot requires accurate arrow placement in the right situations at the right distances. For example, elk can and will jump the string making the frontal shot a very low probability of a clean kill unless you have a very close range shot at the right angle. Knowing when and when not to attempt the shot, in my opinion, takes time spent elk hunting. I have killed a pile of elk and exactly one was a frontal shot. It went a total of 6 yards. I have seen several attempts that didn't go as well and a couple lost bulls.
 

sndmn11

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The frontal shot requires accurate arrow placement in the right situations at the right distances.

If someone understand those situations, and is an accurate shooter, what else is there?

My second archery kill was a frontal shot on a buck at 50 yards, it died in a few feet just the same as if it would have been my 30th animal. I think it's a short sell to talk about a hard no on that shot based on animals killed. People have different abilities based on training and their thought process, and no two people are on the same performance curve.
 
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Good info in this thread....just like the first time elk hunter that has his brand new $10K Gunwerks gun and argues that he can shoot an elk at 1000 yds even though he hasn't shot at 1 yet...yes it is possible but would recommend limiting yourself to 300 yds until you get an elk or two under your belt......the point of most posters is there are high probability shots and low probability shots. Wise Elk hunters work to get the high ones to minimize chasing wounded elk. Looking for a wounded Elk all day is not a good hunting experience.
 

S.Clancy

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Is a person's ability to shoot degraded by a low number of elk kills?
I'm saying that weird shit happens when you have an animal in front of you instead of a target. I've seen people shooting darts to 80 yds hit an antelope in the horn at 50. Best to have more experience killing before taking a shot with less margin of error.
 

Laramie

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If someone understand those situations, and is an accurate shooter, what else is there?

My second archery kill was a frontal shot on a buck at 50 yards, it died in a few feet just the same as if it would have been my 30th animal. I think it's a short sell to talk about a hard no on that shot based on animals killed. People have different abilities based on training and their thought process, and no two people are on the same performance curve.
Massive difference between practice and the real thing. In person experience, under pressure, has no substitute. As mentioned above, we owe it to the game we pursue to take the highest percentage shots only. An elks frontal kill zone is simply a much smaller target thus making it a much lower percentage shot. Other factors, in my opinion, that lower the percentage are lack of experience/animal reaction understanding, increased shot distance, and wind.
 

sndmn11

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I'm saying that weird shit happens when you have an animal in front of you instead of a target. I've seen people shooting darts to 80 yds hit an antelope in the horn at 50. Best to have more experience killing before taking a shot with less margin of error.


Have you met anyone who has killed a score but still gets the jitters? Or someone who is as green as a cucumber at hunting, and as cool as one also?

I would much rather see someone understand anatomy and physiology in order to make the best educated decision for themselves and that unique situation than to just say a certain angle is off limits. Have you ever known someone who passed up numerous shot opportunities in a situation, because they didn't know they were looking at opportunities?


Massive difference between practice and the real thing. In person experience, under pressure, has no substitute. As mentioned above, we owe it to the game we pursue to take the highest percentage shots only. An elks frontal kill zone is simply a much smaller target thus making it a much lower percentage shot. Other factors, in my opinion, that lower the percentage are lack of experience/animal reaction understanding, increased shot distance, and wind.

Effective practice doesn't leave a massive difference. What is the point of practice that is lacking?

What are the percentages of different shot angles?

The arrow and broadhead don't know how much "experience" the shooter has, they simply go where they are sent.

You are trying to support a blanket statement.....
You should have a number of dead elk by broadside hits before even thinking about attempting a frontal.
.....by introducing the concept of variables ("factors") but not recognizing that the variable exists in good shooters under pressure with zero notches on their belt. Humans have the ability to think critically, and I think it is a disservice to take away tools from other hunters by not educating on the many possible ways to inflict lethality and potentially setting them up for failure.
 

S.Clancy

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Have you met anyone who has killed a score but still gets the jitters? Or someone who is as green as a cucumber at hunting, and as cool as one also?

I would much rather see someone understand anatomy and physiology in order to make the best educated decision for themselves and that unique situation than to just say a certain angle is off limits. Have you ever known someone who passed up numerous shot opportunities in a situation, because they didn't know they were looking at opportunities?




Effective practice doesn't leave a massive difference. What is the point of practice that is lacking?

What are the percentages of different shot angles?

The arrow and broadhead don't know how much "experience" the shooter has, they simply go where they are sent.

You are trying to support a blanket statement.....

.....by introducing the concept of variables ("factors") but not recognizing that the variable exists in good shooters under pressure with zero notches on their belt. Humans have the ability to think critically, and I think it is a disservice to take away tools from other hunters by not educating on the many possible ways to inflict lethality and potentially setting them up for failure.
5cd6769c81974_Secrettohappiness-donotarguewithfools.png.d9d751564ef147deb893f33133bb0a72.png
 

hobbes

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Have you met anyone who has killed a score but still gets the jitters? Or someone who is as green as a cucumber at hunting, and as cool as one also?


I've met the first with deer and elk, but I can't say that I've ever met the second.

I've never killed or shot at an elk with the frontal shot, so really don't have enough experience with it to offer up an opinion. These threads always turn into a pissing match over the frontal shot. They could open up a separate forum for frontal shots and broadhead selection.
 

sndmn11

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These threads always turn into a pissing match over the frontal shot.

I have never understood taking to the field with a tool and the intention to take a life with that tool, but limiting your knowledge on how to implement that tool lethally. I am glad that a good link was provided covering a good number of ways to kill an elk, instead of having tunnel vision.
 

hobbes

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I have never understood taking to the field with a tool and the intention to take a life with that tool, but limiting your knowledge on how to implement that tool lethally. I am glad that a good link was provided covering a good number of ways to kill an elk, instead of having tunnel vision.

I volunteer with bowhunter ed during years that we aren't dealing with a pandemic. That doesn't make me any more knowledgeable than anyone, probably less in many cases. I can tell you why I don't go into detail explaining how to make a frontal shot or talking about the lethality of it if executed correctly................They are brand new bowhunters, green as a cucumber, many of them haven't even started practicing shooting. However, they plan to hunt elk within a couple months. They've likely never been within 20 yards or less of a bull, especially one slobbering and bugling in their face. Many are really young, but not all. It's not so much that I don't want to provide them with the info that could make them lethal with a frontal shot, but giving them all that info would instead be an endorsement of that shot. I don't want to endorse a shot to brand new bowhunters that are unlikely to be able to execute or recognize when or when not to take that shot. A broadside to quartering away shot is much more easily recognized and executed by them, so we recommend against anything but that.

If they are serious enough bowhunters they'll eventually recognize other opportunities that may be within their ability and they'll research them out.

I'm not worried about how many opportunities that they miss, but instead worried about how many poor choices they may make, how many bulls get hit poorly, and whether or not their decision will push one more person into the mislead opinion that bowhunting shouldn't even be allowed.
 
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