Extending sight question

[Nasty Bastage]

I have a spot hogg hogg father with the dove tail slide bar mount. Currently I have it set in the second to longest extended position to properly align the peep sight with the sight ring. Everything is fine accuracy wise, but I am wondering if there are any pros or cons to having the sight bar extended that far? Or is that adjustment purely for achieving proper peep sight to sight ring adjustment? I could swap out the sight ring with the smaller ring and reduce the length of the sight bar. Just looking for some input from archers more knowledgeable about this adjustment.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Longer bar allows for more micro adjust and on a hooter shooter it should be more accurate, longer distance between peep and sight. The drawback is the longer the bar the more movement you’re going to get as you hold on target. Imagine a 30x rifle scope vs a 12x rifle scope. Some people struggle with that pin float which could cause TP issues.

 

[sndmn11]

Torque Tuning Your Bow for Shooting Accuracy - Bowhunter

Don't let bow torque ruin your next shot. Use this method to enhance shooting accuracy!

www.bowhunter.com

 

[Billy Goat]

Torque Tuning Your Bow for Shooting Accuracy - Bowhunter

Don't let bow torque ruin your next shot. Use this method to enhance shooting accuracy!

www.bowhunter.com

I was just going to post this. I didn't feel like explaining it.

 

[Nasty Bastage]

Wow guys thanks for the info. Informative article. I figured there was more to that slide adjustment than just peep alignment. The good news is the bow is shooting excellent right now, but I am going to go through the torque tuning excercise to get everything dialed and forgiving as possible. I've got 45 days before I leave for my elk hunt in NM unit 17 and I want to be able to control the controllable. Thanks again!

 

[rob86jeep]

Also, the further your sight is the more movement (or pin gap) you'll have.

 

[Zac]

Horrible idea if your shooting multiple pins. There's a reason Dudley runs his scope right off the riser on his hunting rig.

 

[Nasty Bastage]

Who's Dudley?

 

[Brendan]

Horrible idea if your shooting multiple pins. There's a reason Dudley runs his scope right off the riser on his hunting rig.

Incorrect blanket statement.

Torque tuning and your preference for pin spacing and peep size dictates where the sight bar should be.

I have bows the dovetail gets run almost all the way out, others where it's almost in to the riser.

Torque tune first, then work on pin spacing / peep size preferences seeing if you can keep the bow torque tuned.

 

[Brendan]

Who's Dudley?

Former pro archer, runs / owns nock on archery.

Knows his stuff, but there's a lot of fan boys who forget to think critically sometimes about what he does and says.

 

[Billy Goat]

Former pro archer, runs / owns nock on archery.

Knows his stuff, but there's a lot of fan boys who forget to think critically sometimes about what he does and says.

I have always wondered about some of the stuff he does as it compares to others, his long draw probably changes a few things. His sight against the riser probably puts the sights at the same point as others with a 29" draw with the dovetail run out. Still should amount to where the bow torque tuned.

 

[Brendan]

I have always wondered about some of the stuff he does as it compares to others, his long draw probably changes a few things. His sight against the riser probably puts the sights at the same point as others with a 29" draw with the dovetail run out. Still should amount to where the bow torque tuned.

I think it's pretty rare he says something that's wrong or a mistake, he definitely says some stuff that he doesn't always explain, and aren't going to carry over to every setup.

His long draw does give him a very long sight radius, and moving the sight bar back in 4" (for example) gives him the same sight radius as someone with a 4" shorter draw running the bar all the way out. (roughly anyways...)

 

[Nasty Bastage]

Ya I was kidding, I know who Dudley is. I'm sure 99.99% of what he instructs is solid and thoroughly evaluated, however I am of the opinion that blindly following everything an expert espouses short changes one the opportunity to truly learn by working through something and drawing your own conclusions, which most times ends up being in line with what the expert says. I want to understand why.

 

[Nasty Bastage]

@Zac would you mind explaining why it is a bad idea with multiple pin set up? Thanks

 

[Jimbob]

Ya I was kidding, I know who Dudley is. I'm sure 99.99% of what he instructs is solid and thoroughly evaluated, however I am of the opinion that blindly following everything an expert espouses short changes one the opportunity to truly learn by working through something and drawing your own conclusions, which most times ends up being in line with what the expert says. I want to understand why.

Great post, I couldn't agree more. I love reading/listening to pros but the interesting thing is that a few of them contradict each other. That means there is not just one way to achieve great results, what works for one may not work for another.

So actually understanding how and why things work gives you the knowledge to get your set-up best suited for you.

 

[Brendan]

@Zac would you mind explaining why it is a bad idea with multiple pin set up? Thanks

Here's why it "can" be a bad idea. Longer sight bar increases your pin gaps, and makes accurate range estimation more critical, even though you can make a more accurate shot if you have the range dead on. But, remember, Dudley's a 32-33" draw or something like that, which makes his sight radius (which is what determines pin gaps) super long to start. Not directly comparable to a 28-29" draw archer.

But, what most people don't do is torque tune their bow. If you blindly take your sight bar and move it in, you could be creating a bow that is much more torque sensitive and less forgiving to shoot. I had an XPedition 3-4 years back where I was getting 18-24" flyers at 60 yards when I set it up initially, changed sight and rest position and cleaned it right up.. Torque the bow when tuned and you'll still hit the bullseye.

Both the rest position and the sight position need to be tested together, so you can go for the pin gaps and sight position you want first, but you may need to clean up your torque tune with the rest in that case, and some rests don't have a lot, or any adjustability in that direction.

More than meets the eye.

 

[KyleR1985]

If you shoot heavier arrows, or a slower bow, the further out you extend your bar, the less available range you’ll have to adjust the sight before interfering with your arrow.

example - I have a bow that shoots 250fps. When I have the hha optimizer ultra on it, I can shoot 80 yards. When I put the kingpin(normal one, not even the one with dovetail bar), and have it set as far back on bow as I can, I can only dial down to 70 yards. Getting that same bow in the 275 range, I’m only able to get 80 out of it.

 

[Zac]

@Zac would you mind explaining why it is a bad idea with multiple pin set up? Thanks

You'll have horrible pin gaps. If you've ever tried to shoot gaps at 60 or 70 you will quickly realize that extra space makes it impossible to be precise.

 

[Brendan]

You'll have horrible pin gaps. If you've ever tried to shoot gaps at 60 or 70 you will quickly realize that extra space makes it impossible to be precise.

Conversely, you want a torque free bow and sight bar is one way to tune that. And at long range you can range and dial and be more accurate with the sight bar all the way out as opposed to closer in because the wider pin gaps allow you to be more precise. Downside here though will be more perceived pin float (and the range estimation).

And, not the same for every draw length....

 

[n8saki]

I've ran both my Fast Eddies Double Pins and have better groups with the non extended bar. The groups are tighter for me as the closer to the riser also means less error if I'm off a little. The further the sight is away from the riser the greater the error if you are not shooting perfect. Levi Morgan explains it best and is also his preference when shooting.