Fact checking Ashby

[5MilesBack]

1. Yes. I do believe it’s the # 1 factor. but on what scale i haven’t decided. If it’s 1,000 shots with a shitty arrow before error and 5,000 with a sound arrow. It’s an improvement, but at what degree does that helpMost hunters shoot 10-50 deer in a lifetime.

I don't care what everyone else uses, but arrow construction and durability are #1 on my list, but a lot goes into that. I would put arrow straightness and spine consistency into that "construction" category, but also.......I have found thick-walled weaved carbon arrows to be the most durable I have tested. Put all that into #1, and it's quite a bit that goes into it. Find a manufacturer that does all of those very well on a specific model of arrow, and they've got a winner in my book.

 

[4fletch]

Lot of those bullets don't do too well at high impact speed....



It's unfortunate more don't understand that.

If you took the time to read and follow along you would notice that the whole bullets constructed for the velocity they are being used at has already been covered. Frankly if you are using an established caliber and getting a bullet that doesnt hold together/work as advertised you are using garbage. The big companies figured out things like .40 and 10mm or 308 and 300WM need different jackets/design years ago.

Bullets and mouths.
Faster bullets and faster mouths using more words doesnt equal better.
I feel bad you cant grasp that.
I wish you the best of luck

When you enter a room look both ways and leave your bias at the door. Free advice, seems like you are the kind of guy who needs to hear it.

 

[Billy Goat]

If you took the time to read and follow along you would notice that the whole bullets constructed for the velocity they are being used at has already been covered.

When you enter a room look both ways and leave your bias at the door. Free advice, seems like you are the kind of guy who needs to hear it.

Dude, your whole argument was about the bullet bring faster was better.


The whole point was using a bullet that was built around impact velocity. You were the one focused on making it faster.


@Reburn and I have had several discussions. I think he's pretty good at leaving his biased at the door.

 

[4fletch]

Dude, your whole argument was about the bullet bring faster was better.


The whole point was using a bullet that was built around impact velocity. You were the one focused on making it faster.


@Reburn and I have had several discussions. I think he's pretty good at leaving his biased at the door.

You seem to struggle following the point. Perhaps circle back where i explained it last time and give it another go. Lol.
Would you like me to post a video showing .40S&W and 10mm both with the same weight bullet getting optimal expansion from the same distance on the same target and the 10mm doing far more damage? How about 9mm and 357sig?
Or can you just admit the obvious well known fact that increased velocity in bullets= more damage. Making KE a good metric for bullets while KE is a horrible metric for arrows. (HINT HINT, THE POINT)

 

[Billy Goat]

You seem to struggle following the point. Perhaps circle back where i explained it last time and give it another go. Lol.
Would you like me to post a video showing .40S&W and 10mm both with the same weight bullet getting optimal expansion from the same distance on the same target and the 10mm doing far more damage? How about 9mm and 357sig?
Or can you just admit the obvious well known fact that increased velocity in bullets= more damage. Making KE a good metric for bullets while KE is a horrible metric for arrows. (HINT HINT, THE POINT)

I think everyone is happy to see you are infact missing the point. You are still focused on the KE being the killing metric for a bullet, it's bullet construction. Same as penetration isn't everything with an arrow. If I wanted the ultimate penetration I'd be using the bullet points I used to shoot steel.

The problem is you seem to be making numbers up. Take your original example of a 340 fps arrow and a 280 fps arrow. 150 grain difference isn't going to be 60 fps, it's going to be closer to 40. So you threw the numbers off to try to make a point that KE was lower when it still infact wouldn't be.


Increased velocity does to a point mean more damage. Until the bullet doesn't hold together and just splashes. Such as many have found with match bullets at high impact velocity, however the same bullet is incredible at distance once it slows down.


This has gone south. We are arguing about bullets in an archery forum.


I'm going to shoot my bow. I find that does more for my success than worrying too much about the weight or foc.

 

[bsnedeker]

What I've gotten out of this thread is that I should be shooting 95 grain bullets out of my 300WM....is it just me?

 

[4fletch]

I think everyone is happy to see you are infact missing the point.

The problem is you seem to be making numbers up. Take your original example of a 340 fps arrow and a 280 fps arrow. 150 grain difference isn't going to be 60 fps, it's going to be closer to 40. So you threw the numbers off to try to make a point that KE was lower when it still infact wouldn't be.


Increased velocity does to a point mean more damage.

According to two different arrow velocity calculators it would be 340 and 290fps for 350g vs 500g. I threw the numbers in favor of the argument against me to be fair.
Bullet construction is not relevant for this conversation. Its just a distraction from the hard truth you finally admitted.

 

[4fletch]

What I've gotten out of this thread is that I should be shooting 95 grain bullets out of my 300WM....is it just me?

What you should have taken away is a 300wm will do more damage than a 308 using like bullets. (weight, sd/bc)
What i now understand is why fish and game uses hard cal restrictions, its pretty clear that there is a lot of BS hardwired into the hunting community from decades ago that has since been cleared up not only on paper but on video but nevertheless some choose to hang on to it religiously.
Sometimes you have to sell the horse to the glue factory i guess.

 

[Reburn]

When you enter a room look both ways and leave your bias at the door. Free advice, seems like you are the kind of guy who needs to hear it.

Yep your right about everything. I concide. You win. Lets just stop.

 

[bsnedeker]

What you should have taken away is a 300wm will do more damage than a 308 using like bullets. (weight, sd/bc)
What i now understand is why fish and game uses hard cal restrictions, its pretty clear that there is a lot of BS hardwired into the hunting community from decades ago that has since been cleared up not only on paper but on video but nevertheless some choose to hang on to it religiously.
Sometimes you have to sell the horse to the glue factory i guess.

Dammit! I just ordered a case of 95 grainers! I'm ruined!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Beendare]

Del

 

[Beendare]

I don't care what everyone else uses, but arrow construction and durability are #1 on my list, but a lot goes into that. I would put arrow straightness and spine consistency into that "construction" category, but also......
.delete

 

[Reburn]

shoot your bullet without a barrel….

Yea but my 300wm with no barrel beats your 308 with no barrel because its faster.

 

[Reburn]

Ok let me play devils advocate here;

So you would take arrow construction and not have it hit your intended target?

It seems to me that good arrow flight is a no brainer at number one. If the arrow isn’t flying well then you could have the strongest arrow in the world and it doesn’t matter because you’re gonna miss.

How many deer have been killed with a weak arrow set up? Hundreds of thousands easy. How can a strong arrow even be in the top 2? Tons of animals killed with weak bows, weak arrows but using a very efficient BH. (Trad guys have proven this, Ive proved it myself) perfect arrow flight improves every setup

My list of priorities:
1) Perfect arrow flight
2) an efficient BH
3) arrow weight
4) Bow weight
5) Strong arrow
.
.
212) FOC- grin

Fixed it for ya.

1) Perfect arrow flight
2) an razor sharp efficient BH
3) arrow weight
4) Bow weight
5) Strong arrow
.
200) a visually appealing arrow
.
212) FOC

 

[Mighty Mouse]

According to two different arrow velocity calculators it would be 340 and 290fps for 350g vs 500g. I threw the numbers in favor of the argument against me to be fair.
Bullet construction is not relevant for this conversation. Its just a distraction from the hard truth you finally admitted.

I agree that KE isn't a good indicator of arrow lethality, but there's no need to falsify speed numbers to show a (non-existent) trend of KE decreasing with arrow weight in an attempt to prove that KE is irrelevant. KE increases (modestly) with arrow weight, so if a guy were to pursue maximum KE, he would tend toward a heavier/slower/higher momentum arrow, which (I think) is what you would recommend.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I agree that KE isn't a good indicator of arrow lethality, but there's no need to falsify speed numbers to show a (non-existent) trend of KE decreasing with arrow weight in an attempt to prove that KE is irrelevant. KE increases (modestly) with arrow weight, so if a guy were to pursue maximum KE, he would tend toward a heavier/slower/higher momentum arrow, which (I think) is what you would recommend.

I’ve had KE decrease in some testing I’ve done.

 

[5MilesBack]

Ok let me play devils advocate here;

So you would take arrow construction and not have it hit your intended target?

It seems to me that good arrow flight is a no brainer at number one.

That's a weird argument. You're assuming that just because I have an arrow with good construction that I'm not going to hit my target?????

"Good arrow flight" is a no-brainer........that's why it's not even on my list. But if that was my only consideration......I'd be shooting ACC's for everything. Unfortunately.....ACC's aren't very durable from my experience. I prefer an arrow that fly's with great accuracy but is tough enough to take my abuse.

I'm pretty sure I could take most any manufacturer's arrows and get them to fly well, even arrows out of my spine range. I've proven that before. But I've also proven that most arrows just don't hold up to my abuse. That's why I chose arrow construction at #1......and I have never even read Ashby, other than what I see others post about his stuff.

 

[5MilesBack]

According to two different arrow velocity calculators

That's where you made your mistake......

 

[Beendare]

I’ve had KE decrease in some testing I’ve done.

Then your testing is not accurate. That Archery Report website is still up, check that out for a legit source.

 

[Beendare]

That's a weird argument. You're assuming that just because I have an arrow with good construction that I'm not going to hit my target?????

"Good arrow flight" is a no-brainer.......

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