Facts and Reality on Border issues

[Farmerlentz]

Thank you for your service!!!

 

[tdhanses]

Thanks for your service and laying out facts the media is unwilling to.

 

[5MilesBack]

Thanks for your service and laying out facts the media is unwilling to.

You can just about hear their teeth grinding every time the actual truth comes out on different issues, after they've tried to spin it all in the other direction.

 

[elkstabber]

First, thank you for your service. You have a job that most are unwilling to do.

Second, I have a question for you. I hunted Coues for the first time last month and was told some things by hunters that lived down there. They told me that there were three primary options for someone to cross our southern border:

1. Pay a cartel about $5k for their assistance (similar to a guide service) and they would take you some distance into the US.
2. Pay a cartel about $1-2k for their assistance plus carry a package into the US that was to dropped off at a specific location. This is effectively bringing in drugs for the cartel.
3. Head north and try to cross the border without paying the cartel (similar to hunting DIY). The hazard is that if the cartel catches them not using their services they may beat them to near death, rape them, or just kill them. The border wall/wildlife post had a link showing how many thousands were found dead and shown as red dots on the Arizona map.

Is any of this true? It sounds believable to me. But, I've never heard the media report on any of it.

Thanks!

 

[bikerdavet]

Many thanks for all the well wishes. Sincerely appreciate it.

Hard to not get wrapped around the axel on some issues and comments. Again, I can't get political. My 1st amendment Rights are not the same as yours.

But I did listen to AOC's last public address. And it was ONE WORD that spun everything the opposite direction to the uneducated. "He's (POTUS) ending TPS, he's ending DACA protection for dreamers, and doing so he's taking away the documented status of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands.....of AMERICANs"

These people in these classes, or any class of Immigrant or non Immigrant are not American's. They are foreign nationals seeking temporary or permanent legal status in the United States. Not until someone Naturalizes, do they become Americans.

Yeah they know how to spin a story.

Actually some of those folks are Americans. America is more than just the United States of America. So you can spin a story by the use of terms. Are they legally in the USA? Many are not.

I have a idea. If so many are fleeing from violence and oppression why not spend this energy helping them build a safe haven in their own country? Have a little compassion and lead as a nation to end the corruption and oppression like we see in Venezuela. We could lead the International community and help these people. We are going to spend the money anyway.

If you want to flame me have at it.

I was in Tecate yesterday and I am crossing there again today. All I met were nice people. Bet that's what today will bring.

Would you really mind if poor kids got some medical attention and an education if their folks worked in the fields all day picking carrots?

Drug dealers- waste them all.

Corrupt politicians - force them out.

God knows the folks in law enforcement walk a tightrope with little thanks. Yesterday here it was pouring rain. Border patrol was climbing a ridge. Don't know why but it had to be cold and miserable let alone dangerous. I say give them whatever they want to make their jobs easier. Wall, fence, drones, better laws.

Farm workers- make a legal way for them to work and go home when they want.

Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[WyoBowhunter21]

Thanks for your service and keeping our boarders safe.

 

[cuerro viejo]

First, thank you for your service. You have a job that most are unwilling to do.

Second, I have a question for you. I hunted Coues for the first time last month and was told some things by hunters that lived down there. They told me that there were three primary options for someone to cross our southern border:

1. Pay a cartel about $5k for their assistance (similar to a guide service) and they would take you some distance into the US.
2. Pay a cartel about $1-2k for their assistance plus carry a package into the US that was to dropped off at a specific location. This is effectively bringing in drugs for the cartel.
3. Head north and try to cross the border without paying the cartel (similar to hunting DIY). The hazard is that if the cartel catches them not using their services they may beat them to near death, rape them, or just kill them. The border wall/wildlife post had a link showing how many thousands were found dead and shown as red dots on the Arizona map.

Is any of this true? It sounds believable to me. But, I've never heard the media report on any of it.

Thanks!

Some Truth usually the cartel yote puts a pistol round in the back of the heads of each mules,......when they get close to the drop point.

 

[MuleyFever]

My understanding is that once they are on US soil they are safe and entered into processing. BP can't actually do anything to stop them from crossing. Is this the case? Not talking about drug smugglers, just regular people/families.

 

[Jimi Nugent]

Thank you for the job you do, and for taking the time to pass along this info to the rest of us. It is a messy and muddled issue, that regrettably, has no clear resolution in sight.

 

[Halleywood]

JJ thanks for the work you do and sharing your knowledge.

 

[5MilesBack]

My understanding is that once they are on US soil they are safe and entered into processing. BP can't actually do anything to stop them from crossing. Is this the case?

This leads to the question of where exactly is the border wall or barrier or obstruction in relation to the actual geographical border? People talk about eminent domain for the wall, but we're only talking about a few feet width for that barrier. So where is the barrier put?

When talking about the Rio Grande I would assume that the actual border is the centerline of the river, thereby anybody even making it to this side is technically on U.S. soil already........even if on the other side of the wall. I assume we aren't building the wall in Mexico territory.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Couple responses-

RE: Cartels. The "Cartels" are really interested in Dope, of whatever flavor. The flow of illegals brings BP to their areas or smuggling corridors. The Dope and Illegals are not usually found in the same locations. The illegal smuggling game is one all on it's own, or a separate business. I can't speak directly to what roles cartels do or don't play. My experience is Very Little. But that's opinion.

As far as cost and outcome. I've encountered many people that have been ripped off. Paid X number of dollars and were shuttled out to the remote desert and told "walk that way until you see lights". Pretty common. Price varies drastically.

As far as the dope mules being executed nearing a drop off......very unlikely and I've not seen or heard of anything like that. IF the load was delivered to a drop off or stash location successfully, those mules become an asset, not a liability. The know the route and techniques that succeeded prior.

RE: Wall locations. Didn't fully understand the question. There is an International Boundary Commission. I am certain their engineers and surveyors are much smarter than I am. I trust they build in the correct location. I do believe the center of the Rio IS the boundary. I don't foresee them attempting a wall down the center of the Rio. I have some experience near El Paso, TX and most the fence and wall is on the US bank. Not really a grey area....but nobody is sacked up until they're over the fence. In areas with no fence, YES, once they hit the US bank they are scooped.

RE: Deterrence It's part of the BP Mission statement "Detect and Deter". They can attempt to deter. But if the aliens do NOT deter or return back to the other side, they must be apprehended.

FACT: these huge caravans you see on the news are making entry in large groups. Say 100-400. They do NOT attempt to flee or hide. They made entry into the US and sit down. They are expecting to be apprehended, processed and released "OR" Own Recognizance. Set free into the US with a future court date. This is due, in large part, to having the child of tender age with them. Again...FACT

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

While I have time, an explanation of "Deportation" is probably informative. Keep in mind Immigration is it's own set of laws and processes. Unless you are directly affected, most have no experience with it.

Typical scenario (current times). Say 15 aliens are apprehended. Depending on which geographic area they were encountered, it's highly probable that they will be processed for Deportation. This process takes maybe 2-4 hours depending on the Agent's familiarity with the paperwork, Spanish language level (if these aliens speak Spanish....the public often loses sight that illegals from all over the world are encountered....it's just that Mexico is the most prevalent and common), writing ability etc.

These illegals DO have the Right to Due Process in most cases. Meaning, they have the Right to be presented in front of an IMMIGRATION Judge and plead their case as to why they should be allowed to remain in the United States. They will receive a Thumbs Up or Down. This varies by which Judge they see, his stance on Immigration, or better, the belief in the Aliens reason, needs, justification. Things such as prior apprehensions, prior Deportations and Criminal History have a bearing in his decision, as well as their Credible Fear of returning to their Country. And it also matters in which court Circuit the case is heard. There is quite a difference in the court case outcomes from the 5th circuit vs the 9th.

What a major hang up is.....get ready....cuz this is truth and very difficult for some.......the Immigration courts are sooooo backed up, that many of these people are released OR....Own Recognizance. Basically cut loose. Kinda like semi supervised probation. They are given temporary status and an Employment Authorization Card....means they can legally work in the US. Their court dates are YEARS down the road. To them....Life is Good! Can work in the US. Paid way better than Home. Get driver's licenses, etc. Why would you show up to Court in 4 years for a Maybe chance at being allowed to stay? You all can connect those dots yourselves.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

If they do NOT show up years down the road for their proceedings, they will be deported in abstentia. But what does that really mean? Means that they blew their chance to plead their case and their records should be updated that the receive a Deported status.

But they are already living among the US population. Who looks for these people? ICE....that's ICE's job. But there are literally hundreds of thousands of people in this "status". The only way for them to come up on the RADAR is if they get hemmed up criminally by state/local Police. Wait for it......

Alien X does NOT show up to his court proceedings he was scheduled for in 2015. He is declared Deported in Abstentia. He get's arrested DWI in......Des Moines, IA. The very very few ICE Fug Ops guy in the local ICE office see him pop up on the jail intake. Does his checks and determines he's a prior Deport. He faxes or email his Detainer to the jail which says "Please hold Alien X for immigration upon completion of their local charges".

Mayor of Des Moines orders local law enforcement and jail staff to NOT honor the detainer (ie proclaims Des Moines as a Sanctuary City). 13 days later, with time served and several thousand dollars in fines, Alien X is released. ICE is NOT contacted. They're free again.

Probability Alien X pays the several thousand in fines? Connect those dots yourselves

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

The above is fictitious example. The selection of Des Moines, IA was completely random and popped into my mind due to it's geographic centricity and distance from any international boundary. No idea the current policies of state or local govt in that region.

And ICE Fug Ops agents are generally pretty high speed and deal with very violent offenders illegally present within the US, with serious felony records. But it varies by region. Regardless...in the scenario, this would fall upon an ICE agent.

 

[Beendare]

Thanks JJ.

I've bumped into Drug mules there S of Arrivaca...a bit of a gut check when bowhunting without a firearm. The BP guys kept telling us we were nuts for doing that. The BP guys we met were fantastic....doing a thankless job.

I can't imagine doing your job keeping our country safe...but then being hogtied at every turn and constantly verbally beaten up by a large segment of the Democrats that have no clue to the realities of the situation.

..

 

[5MilesBack]

This is why our immigration laws need to change, and exactly why the Dems refuse to help with those changes. IMO as soon as these people are apprehended, they should be back across the border deported within whatever the quickest timeframe is possible. The whole OR releases are an abomination to our nation and our citizens. I guess the sniper towers with shoot on sight orders are out of the question?

It is mindboggling that there are actually American citizens that say we don't have an illegal immigration problem. Thanks JJ for clearing it all up. It should be crystal clear now to all on here that we indeed have a massive problem that quite frankly........is so far beyond repair that not even sure what can be done......except fix the laws NOW and start over.

 

[Zbot]

I will add some insight as well, I grew up on the border and hunted/fished everyday I could from when I was a teen until now. Have one stand about 100 yards from the river and watch folks fish and swim in the river between deer sightings. Never felt unsafe nor felt like I needed to take my kit everywhere I went. That’s with running into crossers frequently as well. Most are timid and afraid of human interaction. When I do interact with them, they ask for water and directions. We leave camp open with food/water in sight and directions to not destroy the place if they stay.

IMHO, the wall will help tremendously by deterring some and funneling the rest into more concentrated areas. Wildlife will adapt, the ones on the other side will be poached as they are already unfortunately.

 

[dirtclod Az.]

Zbot is correct,they do not want to interact or harm you.
Wake up and smell the bed stains.They want IN not You!

 

[MtGomer]

JJ, you mentioned my post about the lookout points and it probably a corridor in AZ
That’s correct.
It’s in a wilderness area in the Sonoran desert National Monument, this one near the Vekol Valley. From just outside Maricopa where I live it’s uninhabited federal, public land, then Tohono O’Odom Indian reservation all the way to the border.
At the top of this news piece there’s also a video. It was shot over the weekend just outside town near AZ84/I-8 about 70 miles north of the border.

https://www.12news.com/mobile/artic...izona/75-04c25926-553f-4680-a82e-3bda3cf7b5fd