First go at reloading

[sndmn11]

I have a really good pronghorn tag here in Colorado coming up and my "plan" is to use my grandpa's 30-30 since he passed in Feb., but right now, Grandma can't seem to find it. So, I decided I would get some reloading practice on my 30-06 Vanguard. This rifle shoots factory Barnes 180gr Vortx ammo at 2825fps, and factory 165gr Superformance GMX at 2948fps.

Rem Brass, 1x fired, trimmed to 2.484"
Fed 210 primer
H4350
24" barrel with Weatherby's accubrake
65ish degrees at 8000'

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/30-06Springfield.pdf

168gr TTSX COAL 3.266" gives a .099" jump
54.6grains = 2673fps, 2671
54.8 = 2711, 2716
55.0 = 2726, 2728
55.2 = 2730, 2707
55.4 = 2742, 2758
55.6 = 2749, 2757
Barnes website has 55.5gr as "max", at 55.2gr and above I could hear a few crunches on seating I assume was the powder charge.

175gr LRX COAL 3.276 gives about a .099" jump
54,2 = 2676, 2692
54.4 = 2705, 2702
54.6 = 2718, 2711
54.8 = 2729, 2693
55.0 = 2738, 2716
55.2 = 2728, 2748
Barnes "max" is 55.2, I could hear the crunch from 54.8 and up.

I had planned to start at a .065" jump, but doing the math left me a bit longer that the Barnes COAL and I don't know what seating depth does to pressure/velocity. The bullets were seated right at the relief band closest to the tip of the bullet which seems to be the norm.

Overall, I am inclined to shoot the 168gr TTSX at 55.5 grains. Part of me wants to see if there is more juice in the squeeze with H4350, there was no signs of pressure, and I also have Staball and IMR4451. The 30-06 seems to be paired with H4350 pretty consistently, and I thought that would be the best place to start. I also couldn't find recipes for those powders and these bullets. I was shooting all at a 300 yard target, and they were all within a cantaloupe of each other.

Since those were the first 24 I have ever reloaded, what would you tell me to do from here?

 

[Flycaster1977]

Thats a whole lotta bullet for pronghorn.
I would look at the 130 ttsx if your set on a mono bullet.
As far as your load, you can push above max, but do it SLOWLY and keep a sharp eye on brass. Look for bolt sticking at all, any ejector or bolt marks on the base and watch your primers.
I like to load 3 rounds in half grain increments from the min to max and look for the most accurate group. Then play with jump from there. You can go longer on coal, as long as it will fit your magazine and not jam while chambering. but i try to stay cognizant of loads. I wont increase coal on min loads because this can create too much space inside the casing and that leads to a whole new set of issues.

 

[Flycaster1977]

.30-06 Springfield

This has some exceptional info on bullet selection.

 

[gunnerblue]

H4350 and .30-06 go together very nicely. My first suggestion is that you need to fire more than two rounds per load to get accurate information. I know components are tight right now, but four should be the bare minimum.

Seating a bullet deeper will, to a point, decrease pressure as the bullet has a longer distance to travel unencumbered before becoming engraved onto the rifling. The opposite is also true.

Yes, the crunch indicates a compressed load. I've found several good '06 compressed loads- if I remember I'll look up my notes later today.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

H4350 and .30-06 go together very nicely. My first suggestion is that you need to fire more than two rounds per load to get accurate information. I know components are tight right now, but four should be the bare minimum.

Seating a bullet deeper will, to a point, decrease pressure as the bullet has a longer distance to travel unencumbered before becoming engraved onto the rifling. The opposite is also true.

Yes, the crunch indicates a compressed load. I've found several good '06 compressed loads- if I remember I'll look up my notes later today.

Correct me if I'm wrong but seating the bullet deeper in the case increases pressure (at the same powder charge) due to less case volume, seating it out further as long as you aren't touching the lands should decrease pressure for the same powder charge.


Everyone does load work differently. Personally I initially run a single shot load ladder ~.2-.3gr increments in the powder charge I'm thinking will get me what I want, including above max load, when I get pressure signs/excess velocity I stop and disassemble any rounds I didn't shoot. I am just getting a baseline on what my component combination and rifle are delivering for performance at that point, the manufacturer's max charge was with their barrel/brass/primer/powder lot, that can be a grain or two different for my combination. I don't feel the need to shoot multiple shots at each charge when just getting that velocity baseline. I use that to look for velocity plateaus across all of those charges to further investigate with more rounds per powder charge.

 

[sndmn11]

Second go-round here, same range, same temperature. I have a probably 400 1x fired 30-06 cases; about half are Remington and half are Hornady. On sorting the cleaned brass, I found a handful of Hornady had snuck in with the Remington, so I decided to try 6.5 Staball in the Hornady as well as continuing to work on the Remington with H4350. I also decided to move to a .075 jump and gain some case capacity since I was crunching the H4350 the first time. It was interesting to see that the COAL for each bullet was equal when making them the same BTO. No pressure signs on the brass, and nothing remarkable with the bolt lift. None of the Staball loads were crunched.

If you were me, what would you do from here?

Remington brass 1x trimmed to 2.484", COAL 3.291", BTO 2.615" = .075 jump
175gr Barnes LRX, Federal 210, H4350
55gr = 2698fps
55.5 = 2739
55,8 = 2769, 2777 compressed from here on up in charge
56.0 = 2778, 2777
56.2 = 2794, 2800
56.4 = 2805, 2783
56.6 = 2802, 2820
56.8 = 2829, 2836
57.0 = 2799, 2819
57.2 = 2831, 2818
57.4 = 2823
2.485" 2x fired case with spent Fed210 primer = 199.8gr, full of H2O = 268.9gr = case capacity H2O 69.1gr


Hornady Brass 1x trimmed to 2.484", COAL 3.291", BTO 2.615" = .075 jump
168gr Barnes TTSX, Federal 210, 6.5 Staball
55.5gr = 2770fps
56.0 = 2795
56.5 = 2808, 2814
56.8 = 2809, 2821
57.1 = 2821, 2832
57.3 = 2855, 2860
57.5 = 2852, 2847
57.7 = 2858, 2879
57.9 = 2893, 2883
58.1 = 2880
2.485" 2x fired case with spent Fed210 primer = 181.7gr, full of H2O = 254.3gr = case capacity H2O 72.6gr





In this rifle the Barnes factory 180ttsx averages 2825fps, standard deviation of 19.7



In this rifle, the factory Superformance 165gr GMX averages 2948fps, standard deviation of 23.6

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Some powder crunch on a compressed load isn’t an issue IMHO. The 175lrx load I would try some three shot groups 55.8, 55.9, 60; for the 168ttsx 57.3, 57.4, 57.5, 57.6. You’ll want all those groups (esp the center charge) to shoot with low velocity deviation, same impact, good group size. If not seek another node. But with the initial data those are what jumped at me to try.

 

[JakeSCH]

What is your goal for this load?

Some powder crunch on a compressed load isn’t an issue IMHO. The 175lrx load I would try some three shot groups 55.8, 55.9, 60; for the 168ttsx 57.3, 57.4, 57.5, 57.6. You’ll want all those groups (esp the center charge) to shoot with low velocity deviation, same impact, good group size. If not seek another node. But with the initial data those are what jumped at me to try.

I am hoping you intended 56.0 for the LRX?? If that is the case would agree...I would honestly go with 55.9 and try 3 different seating depths to check group size.

0.050" off lands (as long as it still fits in mag)
0.075"
0.100"

 

[sndmn11]

What is your goal for this load?


I am hoping you intended 56.0 for the LRX?? If that is the case would agree...I would honestly go with 55.9 and try 3 different seating depths to check group size.

0.050" off lands (as long as it still fits in mag)
0.075"
0.100"

For the 175gr I would like to develop something that I can use for elk, then mule deer, and pronghorn. For the 168gr I would like to develop something that I can focus on the pronghorn and mule deer. Running the numbers, I am seeing that out to 500 yards, there is little difference and probably nothing meaningful between any of them. I also have a 300wsm that I will develop a load for. I will focus the 30-06 on the 168ttsx, and save the 175gr for the 300wsm, or for down the road. I invested a lot in all the components, so I am committed to this and would like to be able to think to myself that I have a more accurate or faster load, ideally both, than I can buy factory. I also wanted to be prepared with multiple bullets in case one didn't like to shoot, and since it is my first try I wanted to have more than one test case just for my confidence.

I currently have a lot more Rem brass cleaned and prepped than Hornady. Since I saw no pressure signs in the Hornady brass up to 58.1 at any of my tests, I am going to load some starting at 57.0 in .2 increments up to 58.2 in the Remington brass with Staball with the same jump as my test over this weekend. If I understand things correctly, I "should" see a little more velocity due to the smaller case capacity of ~3gr. even though this is not the goal. The downside to using a magnetospeed is that I don't think I can realistically test for grouping and velocity at the same time. So, I think I will maybe load some up at the longer jump to see if the velocity node is consistent. It is about an hour and ten minutes to drive one way to the range, and $10, but it is half way to my pronghorn unit.

I am wondering if I should make a guess at what I think the node will be in the smaller brass, and load up a lot more than just two each, and then do some group testing at the tested velocity node, and pull what I don't shoot?

 

[JakeSCH]

I would say both bullets are excellent and you can't go wrong with either. My buddy uses the 175 LRX & 300 WSM combo to kill lots of critters (from antelope to elk) but he shoots them 2930. So your 30-06 is not far behind that.

As painful as it is, if you want to use the Remington brass I would back off a couple of grains and work your way back up. Not only are the volumes different, but so are the brass material properties meaning they may be designed to yield at different pressures.

To make the most out of your trip...I would do a ladder of the 168's with rem brass and load up seating depth test with the Hornady brass at 57.4 gr...the result of this test would be finding the powder weight with Remington brass that gives you same velocities (node) as the Hornady brass along with identifying the corresponding CBTO that produces best accuracy.

At that point you "should" have something that produces well enough while minimizes your trips to the range for load development.

From what I have read, the magnetospeed will not through off the "node" but only the point of impact...meaning you will need to re-zero when you remove it.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

What is your goal for this load?


I am hoping you intended 56.0 for the LRX?? If that is the case would agree...I would honestly go with 55.9 and try 3 different seating depths to check group size.

0.050" off lands (as long as it still fits in mag)
0.075"
0.100"

Yes sorry was quick reply on my phone and typo. Hope the .1gr increments were apparent!


BTW: in an ideal world when working up a good load, start with GOOD fresh brass. I mention it because you said 300wsm in the future, if you don't have the brass for it yet once fired wouldn't be my first choice. If you plan to use once fired and have some you may want to check the primer pocket tightness now vs later and potentially be disappointed. A buddy had a stack of once fired and basically every primer pocket was loose, yes there are ways to tighten it up to get another shot string out or such but I surely wouldn't want to build up a load on soft brass off the bat.

 

[sndmn11]

BTW: in an ideal world when working up a good load, start with GOOD fresh brass. I mention it because you said 300wsm in the future, if you don't have the brass for it yet once fired wouldn't be my first choice. If you plan to use once fired and have some you may want to check the primer pocket tightness now vs later and potentially be disappointed.

It is a fancy engraved Xbolt with a big gold RMEF or MDF medallion in the wood stock. I had been pestering my friend about it for a while, and he ended up swapping it with me for a stripped AR lower during last year's "crisis"...
I bought 200 Norma Bondstrike to shoot through it because I'd thought Norma brass was well regarded. That rifle is silly accurate and I think I have run through 3/4 of that ammo.
How do I check primer pockets? Would it be pretty apparent when seating the primers?

 

[wind gypsy]

It is a fancy engraved Xbolt with a big gold RMEF or MDF medallion in the wood stock. I had been pestering my friend about it for a while, and he ended up swapping it with me for a stripped AR lower during last year's "crisis"...
I bought 200 Norma Bondstrike to shoot through it because I'd thought Norma brass was well regarded. That rifle is silly accurate and I think I have run through 3/4 of that ammo.
How do I check primer pockets? Would it be pretty apparent when seating the primers?

Yeah, if they seat with zero resistance and dont stay seated they are no good. They can seat with pretty dang light resistance and still be fine IMO. I'd be real surprised if your norma pockets are toast after one firing of a factory load. I've heard of this being an issue occasionally with fed or hornady brass but never personally experienced it.

Edit: I'll note that norma brass supply for my xbolt 300 wsm is doing fine on it's 4th or 5th firing.

 

[CCooper]

I generally start with what you have here, but don't put too much faith in published min/max charges. For a magnum I will load a 1 round per varying grain charge in .5 grain increments. I will start below minimum and load to above maximum. I will shoot and chrono each subsequent round until I see pressure, carefully examining the primers and monitoring bolt lift. I then take the velocity and grain charge information I have recorded and import the data into a spreadsheet graph (some like google sheets) and play with the scales and generate a point to point line chart which eventually will identify a flat spot in velocity between two charge intervals. sometimes they are very apparent, other times subtle- it will highlight your node. I will start dead center of the node and start playing with seating depth to work the vertical out of it and eventually it will come together from here. I will start with seating depth intervals of .010. from on the lands to .100 off, and refine down to .002 changes once I have identified where the groups really tighten up. but I generally am shooting Bergers.

You COULD have a potential higher node you have not explored if you haven't seen pressure yet. Always be extremely careful when getting into hot loads. Most of my magnums have found their "happy" spots about 1-1.5 grain below observed pressure. If powder is compressing you can try to settle it using an electric toothbrush/ razor on the side of the case or a drop tube.

 

[sndmn11]

The 300wsm isn't much of a priority. I have 20 cases in the cleaner right now simply to have something to shoot while the other rifles are cooling. It would be nice to get an easy load with one of the Barnes bullets figured out just in case my brother wants to hunt with it.

This weekend I will keep working on the 30-06, and I will start on 6.5cm. I think I have 100+ federal small primer brass cleaned up, some 120gr etips, some 127gr LRX, and Staball/h4350/imr4155.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

It is a fancy engraved Xbolt with a big gold RMEF or MDF medallion in the wood stock. I had been pestering my friend about it for a while, and he ended up swapping it with me for a stripped AR lower during last year's "crisis"...
I bought 200 Norma Bondstrike to shoot through it because I'd thought Norma brass was well regarded. That rifle is silly accurate and I think I have run through 3/4 of that ammo.
How do I check primer pockets? Would it be pretty apparent when seating the primers?

I would tend to think norma once fired all from the same lot would be fine to work with. I'm using norma currently in my 300wsm (ADG is making it now if I was starting over) and primer pockets have been fine so far but I'm not pushing a hot load. My buddy had some federal and maybe barnes once fired factory loads (fired by him) and they all were loose after that first factory load.

As noted yeah the primers seat really easy and some can even just fall out, if they seat too easy there is the potential of blow by on firing but also they can actually dislodge from the rounds in the magazine on recoil. If you're really wanting to check you can buy a .209 pin gauge and if it drops into the primer pocket easily its too loose. You can peen the pocket with a chrome bearing to tighten it up to limp a bit more life on your brass if you are wanting to do so but as noted not where I'd want to start load work! More so "this is the last round with this brass" type of deal.

 

[sndmn11]

I would tend to think norma once fired all from the same lot would be fine to work with. I'm using norma currently in my 300wsm (ADG is making it now if I was starting over) and primer pockets have been fine so far but I'm not pushing a hot load. My buddy had some federal and maybe barnes once fired factory loads (fired by him) and they all were loose after that first factory load.

As noted yeah the primers seat really easy and some can even just fall out, if they seat too easy there is the potential of blow by on firing but also they can actually dislodge from the rounds in the magazine on recoil. If you're really wanting to check you can buy a .209 pin gauge and if it drops into the primer pocket easily its too loose. You can peen the pocket with a chrome bearing to tighten it up to limp a bit more life on your brass if you are wanting to do so but as noted not where I'd want to start load work! More so "this is the last round with this brass" type of deal.

Which powder of staball, IMR4155, or H4350, would you choose to sling a barnes LRX from?

 

[JakeSCH]

I know you didn't ask me but all things being equal it would be:
1. Staball 6.5
2. H4350
3. IMR4155

Mainly because i love velocity in temp stable powders that meter well.

 

[sndmn11]

I know you didn't ask me but all things being equal it would be:
1. Staball 6.5
2. H4350
3. IMR4155

Mainly because i love velocity in temp stable powders that meter well.

I have a lot of Staball and imr4451, and the least of H4350. At some point loading of 6.5cm, 7-08. 30-06 (two rifles each) will all be regular and priorities. 25-06, 270, and 300wsm are more of novelties at this point but will be reloaded down the road. I do have some imr4166 that I got in case I turn up some light .308 bullets.

My hope was/is to sort of spread around the love in those powders and find a solid two powder loads for each cartridge in case one was hard to find. On paper, it seems like the Staball wins in everything but the 25-06, but i figured that there is a reason why everyone loves h4350 in a lot of cartridges, some love the imr4451, and maybe staball isn't unicorn dust. I did buy 11lbs of staball in the last week after how much easier I liked loading it compared to h4350 and what I saw on the magnetospeed seemed to pan out. I also don't want to forget about the other powders because in reality 100-200fps probably is meaningless for what I am doing.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

H4350 was a tried and true more stable powder so its why everyone has liked it for that burn rate. Stabal is newer thus not going to have as much cult following yet if it proves out as intended. To be perfectly honest I hadn't been paying that much attention as I had loads/powders and didn't really need to chase anything so I didn't notice staball 6.5 was released until I was looking at 243win load data recently. I have no experience with it but just got a pound of it to try out. SO long story short I'm not gonna tell ya what to do. But in general I'll give up velocity for accuracy, that said ideally staball delivers both for ya.

I mainly hunt with a 280AI (IMR7828SSC, h4831sc wasn't available in inventory when I worked up the load) and 300wsm which I use H4831sc in, I have an 8lb of that to cover me a good bit and also I can work up a 280AI load in that if needed.

Anyways enough mumbling, best bet with whatever powder is work up a load and pick a powder and get a full jug (or more if you shoot alot), confirm the performance with the new powder lot and then enjoy your shooting life for a good long while regardless of shortages.