FORLOH pack launched today!

bsnedeker

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May 17, 2018
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Didn’t say a thing about forloh fan boy. Not once did I mention them

Universal problem with American made outdoor gear.
So, you have zero experience with the brand we are talking about IN THIS THREAD THAT YOU RESPONDED TO.

Thanks for confirming that your opinion is completely meaningless, as if that wasn't already obvious.

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Venom One

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So, you have zero experience with the brand we are talking about IN THIS THREAD THAT YOU RESPONDED TO.

Thanks for confirming that your opinion is completely meaningless, as if that wasn't already obvious.

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Come on, man, let's not make it so personal and hostile. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, FORLOH is the greatest mfr of American made gear. They still have the challenge of mfg'ing in America where employee costs are significantly higher than elsewhere. That cost increase means the company has to make some choices. They either sell their product at a significantly higher price point - hence FORLOH's price of $800+ for their pack. Or they use inferior materials to offset the cost. Or a combination of the two.

I'm sure that most people would prefer to buy US made products, but if they can get a higher quality item for the same price or even cheaper, it's hard to justify. I have an Acura that's pushing 300k and it's had very few issues. Sadly, most US made vehicles can't compete with that. I believe this is the point Mojave was making.

As for the FORLOH pack, if someone wants to pay $800+ for a pack that's Made in America, FORLOH has made that possible. Is it better than the other options and will people pay that much for a pack? I guess we'll find out....
 

doncarpenter

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Mar 9, 2012
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Yorkville, IL
I got to put my hands on this pack last weekend at the Total Archery Challenge in Michigan. It seems like a very well built pack. A couple of my observations. The material seems very robust but did seem a little noisy, or at least noisier than 500d. This could get better as the material breaks in, but something to consider. The frame was not overly stiff, but moved with the body. It reminds me of the MR NICE frame like I mentioned earlier in the thread, even how the hipbelt articulates to the frame. That's not a bad thing, that frame is kind of legendary. The built in load shelf is cool, and works well.

If they come out with a 24 or longer frame I will probably try one, until then, I will pass, especially since I have a 21" torso.

On a side note, I got to check out FORLOH clothing for the first time as well. It is some of the nicest stuff I have seen. I bought a insectshield hoody, and it might be my favorite warm weather base layer I have ever used. I literally wore it for three days straight after buying it. It's awesome. I love the clothing that FORLOH is putting out.

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Mojave

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Jun 13, 2019
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481
Come on, man, let's not make it so personal and hostile. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, FORLOH is the greatest mfr of American made gear. They still have the challenge of mfg'ing in America where employee costs are significantly higher than elsewhere. That cost increase means the company has to make some choices. They either sell their product at a significantly higher price point - hence FORLOH's price of $800+ for their pack. Or they use inferior materials to offset the cost. Or a combination of the two.

I'm sure that most people would prefer to buy US made products, but if they can get a higher quality item for the same price or even cheaper, it's hard to justify. I have an Acura that's pushing 300k and it's had very few issues. Sadly, most US made vehicles can't compete with that. I believe this is the point Mojave was making.

As for the FORLOH pack, if someone wants to pay $800+ for a pack that's Made in America, FORLOH has made that possible. Is it better than the other options and will people pay that much for a pack? I guess we'll find out....
Thanks
 

Mojave

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Jun 13, 2019
Messages
481
As an example, I work in the aero space industry. We needed a 5 mile long cable capable of supporting a 8000 pound sled to stretch between two mountains to use as a aircraft target.

They used to run about $250,000, and were made in America out of high tech braided material. About 5 years ago the company lost interest in making them and now we have to purchase them from a foreign company (not in Asia) that produces the cable (really rope).

The company normally produces non-metalic gondola cables.

The new cost is about $4,000,000 per unit. One American company told us they would R&D one for us but the start up is $15,000,000 to get it going.

I deal with the Berry compliance issue regularly. Normally I am not very impressed with what Berry Compliance means when we have to go with an American made company to find a solution.
 

Tecker123

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Aug 8, 2021
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23
I'm not even tall (5'10") and a 24 inch frame is too short for 50+ pounds, a 26 inch frame is needed to comfortably carry 100+ pounds. Day packs work with 22 inch frames though as the load is under 30 pounds.
The arm straps and and waist belts expand exponentially to fit rather large humans. During field testing we had it on guys up to 6 ft 6 in, and with waists in excess of 45 inches, and it fit them perfectly. The frame was designed with a standard size on purpose, because of several factors, and was built by leading special forces pack designers, who have extensive experience managing load distribution on the human body. If you go to my Instagram you can see several photos of me field testing it over the last 1+ year on moose hunts carrying over 100 lbs. the standard frame keeps the load centered and anchored to the area of your back that is designed to carry load. Adjusting shoulder straps and waist belts conforms and moves this center anchor to the right spot on larger torsos. Too big of a frame promotes sway and misleading. Besides that the pack is not an apples to apples comparison of anything on the market, because the fabric is 100% waterproof, and weighs a lot less than standard historical cordura, and the pack has features that most packs can’t achieve. We went the extra mile for sure.
 

Tecker123

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I would like to add that most pack companies pricing is in the same ballpark as us, they just price it out differently, by showing frame pricing or pack pricing, but once you purchase it all it basically comes out to a very close number as ours. Yes to your point we only use the best materials, and it goes further, Diamond Nylon rip stop is revolutionary for packs, the fabric is stronger than cordura, quieter and half the weight. Their is a cost to that premium. Ours is also completely waterproof (fabric), the bottom of the pack is bonded, so it can be set in water without water seaping in. We also included key features like the bow and rifle holder, which a lot of others charge as an addition.
 

Tecker123

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I got to put my hands on this pack last weekend at the Total Archery Challenge in Michigan. It seems like a very well built pack. A couple of my observations. The material seems very robust but did seem a little noisy, or at least noisier than 500d. This could get better as the material breaks in, but something to consider. The frame was not overly stiff, but moved with the body. It reminds me of the MR NICE frame like I mentioned earlier in the thread, even how the hipbelt articulates to the frame. That's not a bad thing, that frame is kind of legendary. The built in load shelf is cool, and works well.

If they come out with a 24 or longer frame I will probably try one, until then, I will pass, especially since I have a 21" torso.

On a side note, I got to check out FORLOH clothing for the first time as well. It is some of the nicest stuff I have seen. I bought a insectshield hoody, and it might be my favorite warm weather base layer I have ever used. I literally wore it for three days straight after buying it. It's awesome. I love the clothing that FORLOH is putting out.

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See my earlier comments on frame size. Unfortunately the industry has taught you incorrectly that if your tall you need a tall frame. Not true our frame will fit a monster 6.5ft tall perfectly. Also the fabric noise is a bit off. We designed the fabric to be quieter than 500D and has been proven in lab testing. We did this with a PU coating on one side and TPU on the other. It used to drive me crazy to get the corduroy swoosh effect from branches as I was rushing in on a elk bugling, so we designed the fabric to eliminate that sound or minimize it as much as possible. Great observation on the frames ability to move with the body. We designed it with and to act as an exo skeleton so it is more comfortable under load.
 

amassi

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May 26, 2018
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2,056
See my earlier comments on frame size. Unfortunately the industry has taught you incorrectly that if your tall you need a tall frame. Not true our frame will fit a monster 6.5ft tall perfectly. Also the fabric noise is a bit off. We designed the fabric to be quieter than 500D and has been proven in lab testing. We did this with a PU coating on one side and TPU on the other. It used to drive me crazy to get the corduroy swoosh effect from branches as I was rushing in on a elk bugling, so we designed the fabric to eliminate that sound or minimize it as much as possible. Great observation on the frames ability to move with the body. We designed it with and to act as an exo skeleton so it is more comfortable under load.
Pretty cool you guys figured out a way for a standard frame height to fit while the rest of the established pack manufacturers waste our time offering options that fit individuals.
Should be pretty easy to show it working on the aforementioned 6'6" person.

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Tecker123

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No problem, we will get some content made showing larger folks wearing it. I will actually be out on my elk hunting ranch doing some field testing of other future launching products in 3 weeks and will have one of my monster buddies come up and we will do a comparison video from me 5ft 10in 33 in waist to him 6.5ft 40+in waist. I’ll show you wear your focus should be on centering load and how our adjustments take that into consideration. Our frame acts as an exo-skeleton and moves with the body, not overly rigid as traditional pack construction dictated. This allows for a more comfortable ride and less sway.
 

ljalberta

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Dec 7, 2015
Messages
877
I am skeptical about the 22” frame carrying loads as comfortably on a long torso individual as a 26” frame. I suspect, based on my past experience, that the top of the frame where the load lifter straps connect would be not sufficiently above the shoulders.

My past experience has been that when those straps are too low, even with the bulk of the weight resting on the hips, the pack itself feels like it’s pulling back and down on the shoulders. To me, this has been uncomfortable. When there is that upward angle to the load lifter straps, it feels like the pack is no longer pulling straight back and is much more comfortable to tote heavy weights long distances.

Now that being said, I am most certainly open to being shown differently and I look forward to the upcoming videos.

Are you able to link us to your Instagram to see some of these photos?

*edit* I found the Instagram, but the only photos I could find from your moose hunt with any load on the pack, seem to indicate the pack is failing to do its job. The one shot that has been posted, appears to show the frame bent back and way off your shoulders and down off the hips as well.

The second shot is from behind, so you can’t see much, but the bag itself appears to be hanging below your butt. Your post states that the pack handled the load better than your legs, but the pack doesn’t appear to be handling much well in those shots. Again though, my understanding from this thread is that was a prototype pack upon which improvements have been made. Can you touch on the specific improvements that were made after this trip to address the issues you encountered?
 
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PredatorSlayer

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Jul 20, 2019
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See my earlier comments on frame size. Unfortunately the industry has taught you incorrectly that if your tall you need a tall frame. Not true our frame will fit a monster 6.5ft tall perfectly. Also the fabric noise is a bit off. We designed the fabric to be quieter than 500D and has been proven in lab testing. We did this with a PU coating on one side and TPU on the other. It used to drive me crazy to get the corduroy swoosh effect from branches as I was rushing in on a elk bugling, so we designed the fabric to eliminate that sound or minimize it as much as possible. Great observation on the frames ability to move with the body. We designed it with and to act as an exo skeleton so it is more comfortable under load.
I am 6’5” 250 with a 38” waist and have tried about every pack out there. I am super skeptical your pack frame will work as well as you say it does for big guys like myself.
 

Tecker123

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I am skeptical about the 22” frame carrying loads as comfortably on a long torso individual as a 26” frame. I suspect, based on my past experience, that the top of the frame where the load lifter straps connect would be not sufficiently above the shoulders.

My past experience has been that when those straps are too low, even with the bulk of the weight resting on the hips, the pack itself feels like it’s pulling back and down on the shoulders. To me, this has been uncomfortable. When there is that upward angle to the load lifter straps, it feels like the pack is no longer pulling straight back and is much more comfortable to tote heavy weights long distances.

Now that being said, I am most certainly open to being shown differently and I look forward to the upcoming videos.

Are you able to link us to your Instagram to see some of these photos?
I am Forloh’s Founder and CEO Andy Techmanski, Instagram @andytechmanski , I understand your concerns, but this is a completely different approach to weight distribution. Carrying weight too high will wear you out much quicker. Our rendition of load lifter straps as you call them, actually connect through the top of the frame and onto the top/front of the shoulder straps, ensuring that the load stays evenly distributed between shoulder and hips and is completely adjustable to suit how you as the user like to split the weight. And all with near zero sway, that’s super important because away also wears you out and causes more noise.
 

Marbles

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May 16, 2020
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I am skeptical about the 22” frame carrying loads as comfortably on a long torso individual as a 26” frame. I suspect, based on my past experience, that the top of the frame where the load lifter straps connect would be not sufficiently above the shoulders.

My past experience has been that when those straps are too low, even with the bulk of the weight resting on the hips, the pack itself feels like it’s pulling back and down on the shoulders. To me, this has been uncomfortable. When there is that upward angle to the load lifter straps, it feels like the pack is no longer pulling straight back and is much more comfortable to tote heavy weights long distances.

Now that being said, I am most certainly open to being shown differently and I look forward to the upcoming videos.

Are you able to link us to your Instagram to see some of these photos?

*edit* I found the Instagram, but the only photos I could find from your moose hunt with any load on the pack, seem to indicate the pack is failing to do its job. The one shot that has been posted, appears to show the frame bent back and way off your shoulders and down off the hips as well.

The second shot is from behind, so you can’t see much, but the bag itself appears to be hanging below your butt. Your post states that the pack handled the load better than your legs, but the pack doesn’t appear to be handling much well in those shots. Again though, my understanding from this thread is that was a prototype pack upon which improvements have been made. Can you touch on the specific improvements that were made after this trip to address the issues you encountered?
Agree. Even a 24 inch frame pulls back on my shoulders under heavy loads. The weight is not on my shoulders (can slip a finger under the straps on top), but the compression on the front of my shoulders must reduce either veinous or lymphatic return as after a few hours my hands are swollen and stiff (rings no longer fit, so objective evidence of swelling). A 26 inch frame resolves this problem.

Also, I don't feel weight should be distributed between shoulders and hips. I want all of it on my hips, but I want to be able to shrug my shoulders and lift the weight off of my hips. The reason for this is more than just comfort. The lumbar spine is the most prone to damage under load as it has no support from other bones. Putting the load on the pelvic girdle, rather than the shoulder girdle, reduces the forces the lumbar spine is exposed to and decreases the odds of injury if things go sideways.

The thing is, I have learned what works through lots of personal pain and discomfort. It is pretty difficult for me to take someone's word that everything I have learned is wrong. For free, I would be willing to risk suffering to find out, but hazarding a good portion of my gear budget is a tough sell. FORLOH's 30 day return requires tags be attached and the item is unused, no way to know if a pack works and meet that criteria.
 

Ucsdryder

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Jan 24, 2015
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If they figured out a way to make a 22” frame work like a 26” that’s really exciting, but I too am skeptical. My buddy bought a 22” kifaru because it was on sale. He’s never been able to adjust it to get the weight off his shoulders. My 26” frame keeps the weight 100% on my hips, until I get heavy weight, over 100lbs then it distributes everywhere and it all seems to suck! Pretty sure I’ll be packing out a few animals solo this year so I need all the help I can get.
 

fwafwow

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I am Forloh’s Founder and CEO Andy Techmanski, Instagram @andytechmanski , I understand your concerns, but this is a completely different approach to weight distribution. Carrying weight too high will wear you out much quicker. Our rendition of load lifter straps as you call them, actually connect through the top of the frame and onto the top/front of the shoulder straps, ensuring that the load stays evenly distributed between shoulder and hips and is completely adjustable to suit how you as the user like to split the weight. And all with near zero sway, that’s super important because away also wears you out and causes more noise.
It seems like one of the primary questions related to the frame size. With respect to your responses about the design overcoming what has been done by other companies, are there any diagrams with the engineering demonstrated? Or something other than requiring a person to test drive it? I think @Marbles point is good - the audience is open to being shown your new design works, but you have some history and familiarity that folks need to overcome to be persuaded.
 
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BLJ

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Is the frame actually bending under the load of the moose head in the picture posted earlier?
 
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