Form check, please

keith2210

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May 14, 2015
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Alright folks you’ve been helpful in the past so figured I’d reach out again. I’ve attached a picture of my form and would like any suggestions you may have. The reason I’m doing this is because I have a tail right tear that I’m struggling to get rid of. Reached out awhile back about a tail left tear and changed my grip up and seemed to have it corrected. I’ve been shooting plenty and started noticing arrows in the target not being parallel so I went back to paper and discovered a tail right tear.

Bow is to spec on brace height, axle to axle, center shot, draw length and cams are timed. I have a feeling my grip is inconsistent but wanted to check in with you all. After looking at the pictures of myself I’m wondering if my draw length isn’t a little long. Any and all suggestions welcome.
 

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Samdemarais

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Form looks pretty good, would need to see a shot from behind and slight above to see if your rear elbow is in line. Your bow arm elbow is not rotated correctly but I’m not sure that will affect your right tear issue. So…
- change your grip and see how it reacts through paper, if minor grip change does the trick then you can roll with that
- if your get the same right tear every time, your grip is consistent, given everything else is good with the bow tune
- try changing dynamic spine of the arrow, add point weight, take point weight off, reduce draw weight, add draw weight. See what gives you best result
- lastly, make sure you use multiple arrows, obviously all the same build, but same setup, and verify that it’s not something with that one arrow
 

Zac

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Looks good, however I imagine with your release set up like that it makes it difficult for you to make a hook with your index finger.
 
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keith2210

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Looks good, however I imagine with your release set up like that it makes it difficult for you to make a hook with your index finger.

I can shorten the release. Is that how you would suggest to fix it?
 

OR Archer

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I can shorten the release. Is that how you would suggest to fix it?
Yes. Definitely shorten your release and keep your release hand as relaxed as possible. Don’t grip the release once you anchor in.
If you’re getting a consistent right tear you’ll probably have to shim your cams or adjust your cable rod to help correct it.
 

Sled

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Like Sam said above, check your grip. I can't tell for sure but when zooming in it. Looks like your bow hand index and middle finger are turning white from putting excess pressure on the front of the grip.

On second look it's the index through ring finger. It does appear you might be gripping the bow rather than letting it sit on the pad of your thumb.
 
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keith2210

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I am definitely gripping the bow. If I use proper form the tear is even worse. This seems to be the only way I can occasionally get a bullet hole. This is the main reason I’m wondering if my draw length is too long.
 

Sled

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I am definitely gripping the bow. If I use proper form the tear is even worse. This seems to be the only way I can occasionally get a bullet hole. This is the main reason I’m wondering if my draw length is too long.

If you're gripping the bow to get a bullet hole there is something wrong. Go back to a comfortable and repeatable grip that does not influence or torque the bow. You may need to shim to get the bow to tune for you. A good pro shop should help.

Also, you mentioned arrows not parallel in the target. Are these bareshaft or fletched? That can sometimes happen in a loose bag target but just in case, check for vane contact again on cables and rest. Use some foot powder or the wife's favorite lipstick.
 

Foggy Mountain

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There’s some form issues. The grip being one but there are other things that could be causing the issue. One your bow hand looks knuckled up into a fist of sorts from the pic. Idk why but it’s not absolutely clear but it seems that way. , if that’s so it needs to be corrected. You also need to post an actual video cause so many things could happen at the shot, before the arrow leaves the string we cant see in only a pic. Are you using proper back tension and following through correctly. How are you firing trigger?
Can’t get there unless form is correct. Once stationary form is good, the mechanics of shooting can also come into play
Remember even imperfect form (not recommending that), if repeated exact will yield consistent results but fixing form should make things easier. Once that’s fixed the last step and still a possibility is bow out of tune.


Post a video
 
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keith2210

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If you're gripping the bow to get a bullet hole there is something wrong. Go back to a comfortable and repeatable grip that does not influence or torque the bow. You may need to shim to get the bow to tune for you. A good pro shop should help.

Also, you mentioned arrows not parallel in the target. Are these bareshaft or fletched? That can sometimes happen in a loose bag target but just in case, check for vane contact again on cables and rest. Use some foot powder or the wife's favorite lipstick.
I'm confident the bow is tuned. It is to manufacturers spec on axle to axle, center shot, brace height, draw length, and the cams are timed and in sync. It has to be a grip/form issue but I am having one heck of a time figuring out what part is off.

I suggested draw length above but changed the draw modules last night to decrease draw length by an inch, got everything back in sync/timed and had the same tear. The shorter draw length made me feel very "bunched up" at the draw as well so I changed them back and put everything back in sync/time and called it a night.

I will occasionally get a bullet hole through paper but can rarely repeat it. What I am getting consistently is a nock right tear of anywhere from .25-1.5 inches from 8 feet out.

The non parallel arrows are fletched and being shot into a rhinehart block target. I've attached another photo from the other night that shows what my bareshaft is doing in relation to fletched arrows at 12 yards. For you all suggesting to put a video up and additional pictures up, I will do so this evening. I appreciate all of the responses. I feel like my form/grip is the issue but trying to figure it out is driving me batty. I feel like I should be practicing for September right now and not continuing to chase my tail to get when season is so close.
 

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OR Archer

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I'm confident the bow is tuned. It is to manufacturers spec on axle to axle, center shot, brace height, draw length, and the cams are timed and in sync. It has to be a grip/form issue but I am having one heck of a time figuring out what part is off.
Those just mean your bow is in spec not tuned. If you want to clean up that tear you’re going to have to shim those cams and possible adjust the cable rod to correct it.
 

cjdewese

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Still new to this as well, but it looks like the bow is sitting across the center of your palm. It should sit more on your thumb muscle pad than inside the middle of your palm. For me, it helped to ensure I wasn't torqueing the bow as much as I was before I fixed that issue.
 

Sled

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Shoot at the clean side of your target. Fletched arrows should be going in parallel. If not you have fletching contact somewhere. I'd also guess you are choking the bow grip right after the shot. Get a bow wrist strap so you don't worry about dropping the bow. Find a reasonably comfortable and repeatable hand position that is not deep into the "V" of your hand. You should be able to tune the bow to you. Don't tune the bow to a hooter shooter if you can't repeat the form of a hooter shooter. That said, if it is factory spec and the hooter shooter can't get a bullet hole then it's time to shim.
 

Badseed

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The draw length looks a little long. An easy way to check is to perform some bare shaft tuning to dial it in. Ultimately, you will adjust your draw length by small amounts 1/4”, 1/8”, or even less to get a bare shaft arrow to group with fletched arrows. Once you can do that, you will know your draw length is good. You will be amazed at how big of a difference a 1/4” change in draw length will make


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Samdemarais

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P
I am definitely gripping the bow. If I use proper form the tear is even worse. This seems to be the only way I can occasionally get a bullet hole. This is the main reason I’m wondering if my draw length is too long.
so have you changed the poundage of your bow or point weight yet?
 

Foggy Mountain

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Guys I’m gonna say this again. You cannot tune a bow with improper or at least consistent form. A guy I teach with is multiple time state champ. His grip is technically wrong but he executes it exactly each time. In a sense improper grip but it’s not torturing it changing a thing. Still easier to learn proper form. He understands and teaches that.
Besides the physical attributes the actuall shooting also comes into play. Where the video? Without it we could only guess.
 

Badseed

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Guys I’m gonna say this again. You cannot tune a bow with improper or at least consistent form. A guy I teach with is multiple time state champ. His grip is technically wrong but he executes it exactly each time. In a sense improper grip but it’s not torturing it changing a thing. Still easier to learn proper form. He understands and teaches that.
Besides the physical attributes the actuall shooting also comes into play. Where the video? Without it we could only guess.

100% accurate! To ensure that you are consistent with your form try setting up a piece of cardboard or use a paper tuning stand in front of a target to aim at a dot 3’ away. Having the target about shoulder height is ideal. Aim at that dot 20-30 times until you can create a single shaft diameter hole. Since you are aiming at the dot, your arrows will hit below the dot allowing you to consistently aim at the same location. Once you can make 20-30 shouts hit the exact same spot, try it again at a slightly further distance say 6’. Deviations in your form will be obvious when the hole is larger than a shaft diameter. There are multiple videos showing the technically proper way to grip the bow so its a good idea to focus on that while doing this drill. The bare shaft tuning to identify ideal draw length will only work if your form is consistent.


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540-Virginian

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Online advice will get you started. If you really want to tweak the final steps, best to have an in person coach. Have you tried to find one in your area? You’re going to get correct info on here, but also incorrect info as what works for some may not work for you. Our bodies are different as is our physical conditions…

Right nock tears, from what i understand, are due to facial pressure 90% of the time. To confirm, have your release hand and string close but not touching your face. No need to worry about anchor for this test as you arent aiming for a bullseye, you want to see if you get a right tear. If you do shoot and get a right tear then it may likely be your grip. If you get a bullet or more left tear it is definitely facial pressure.

I had a lot of right tears, first it was facial pressure, then the last little bit of tear was grip. For facial pressure, the string should barely, and i mean barely, touch your nose and corner of mouth. For grip, play with different wrist angles and placement on your palm. For me, my knuckles are slightly more than a 45 degree angle. But no matter what your wrist and grip should be 100% relaxed. Do not grip the bow. I let my fingers relax on the riser, no pressure, just touching.

Good luck.
 

540-Virginian

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The draw length looks a little long. An easy way to check is to perform some bare shaft tuning to dial it in. Ultimately, you will adjust your draw length by small amounts 1/4”, 1/8”, or even less to get a bare shaft arrow to group with fletched arrows. Once you can do that, you will know your draw length is good. You will be amazed at how big of a difference a 1/4” change in draw length will make


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Curious where you learned this? From what i understand, draw length at that small of adjustment will not help his tear issues, it has more to do with pin float. Unless your draw length is too long or short causing back arching or shoulders hunching, adjusting DL in small amounts ahouks be something that you shoot a lot of groups at different adjustments to see what tighens them, not to fix a tear.

that was the opinion of a coach i worked with, could be different philosophies though.
 

Marble

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Is there tape or something on your grip?

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