Form check, please

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K

keith2210

Member
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
85
Those just mean your bow is in spec not tuned. If you want to clean up that tear you’re going to have to shim those cams and possible adjust the cable rod to correct it.
Sorry for the delay guys. I went ahead and moved the shims from the right side to the left and vise versa. I did this awhile back when I was getting a bad left tear so the shims are now back in their original position. I have moved the cable rod in a few different positions and can't say I've seen a noticeable difference.

Shoot at the clean side of your target. Fletched arrows should be going in parallel. If not you have fletching contact somewhere. I'd also guess you are choking the bow grip right after the shot. Get a bow wrist strap so you don't worry about dropping the bow. Find a reasonably comfortable and repeatable hand position that is not deep into the "V" of your hand. You should be able to tune the bow to you. Don't tune the bow to a hooter shooter if you can't repeat the form of a hooter shooter. That said, if it is factory spec and the hooter shooter can't get a bullet hole then it's time to shim.

After switching the cams back to their original positions the fletched arrows are parallel in the target. I have a wrist strap on the way. I ditched the wrist strap a couple bows ago but will give it a go with this one. I have also been working on a more comfortable, natural, and repeatable grip. Between that and switching the shims it seems to be helping, as the photos below show.

P

so have you changed the poundage of your bow or point weight yet?

I have not changed the poundage yet. I started with the first suggestion of grip and shims. I feel I am close and did not want to change everything at once. See photos/videos below.

Guys I’m gonna say this again. You cannot tune a bow with improper or at least consistent form. A guy I teach with is multiple time state champ. His grip is technically wrong but he executes it exactly each time. In a sense improper grip but it’s not torturing it changing a thing. Still easier to learn proper form. He understands and teaches that.
Besides the physical attributes the actuall shooting also comes into play. Where the video? Without it we could only guess.

See videos below.

Is there tape or something on your grip?

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Yes there is lizard tape on the grip.

Below are 3 videos of me drawing and shooting. I have numbered the shots through paper so that you can see the results of those shots. They were taken from 12 feet away from the paper.

Shot 4 on the paper was taken during the picture behind me. Shots 5 and and 6 were after the camera was put away.

The next two pictures show my grip. This picture was the most telling to me as the difference in my grip (Thumb direction and knuckle angle) is obvious. I believe this is where my problems are coming from but these tears are much much better than they were just one week ago after reading your feedback and focusing on a comfortable, relaxed, and repeatable grip.

The final picture is fletched arrows into the target at 20 yards.

Again, sorry for the delay. Everyone's help has been much appreciated. Critique away gentlemen.

*EDIT*
I'm having a hard time getting the videos to post. Any pointers here?
 

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Last edited:

OR Archer

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As far as the shims go they do not need to be the same top and bottom. Lots of times doing both top and bottom can over correct for a tear.
 

Marble

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Joined
May 29, 2019
Messages
1,578
Lizard grip is going to make you put more torque in your shot. It's just something to consider.

Sometimes the tape is used to induce repeatable torque and, or, build up a portion of the grip for comfort/better fit.

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Samdemarais

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
432
Sorry for the delay guys. I went ahead and moved the shims from the right side to the left and vise versa. I did this awhile back when I was getting a bad left tear so the shims are now back in their original position. I have moved the cable rod in a few different positions and can't say I've seen a noticeable difference.



After switching the cams back to their original positions the fletched arrows are parallel in the target. I have a wrist strap on the way. I ditched the wrist strap a couple bows ago but will give it a go with this one. I have also been working on a more comfortable, natural, and repeatable grip. Between that and switching the shims it seems to be helping, as the photos below show.



I have not changed the poundage yet. I started with the first suggestion of grip and shims. I feel I am close and did not want to change everything at once. See photos/videos below.



See videos below.



Yes there is lizard tape on the grip.

Below are 3 videos of me drawing and shooting. I have numbered the shots through paper so that you can see the results of those shots. They were taken from 12 feet away from the paper.

Shot 4 on the paper was taken during the picture behind me. Shots 5 and and 6 were after the camera was put away.

The next two pictures show my grip. This picture was the most telling to me as the difference in my grip (Thumb direction and knuckle angle) is obvious. I believe this is where my problems are coming from but these tears are much much better than they were just one week ago after reading your feedback and focusing on a comfortable, relaxed, and repeatable grip.

The final picture is fletched arrows into the target at 20 yards.

Again, sorry for the delay. Everyone's help has been much appreciated. Critique away gentlemen.

*EDIT*
I'm having a hard time getting the videos to post. Any pointers here?
But why would you mess with your grip and shims if it’s simply the spine of your arrow.
 

Foggy Mountain

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Joined
Jun 19, 2021
Messages
213
Yea sorry bud, I only see pics. I’m kinda new here and can’t help. One sight I was on it was easiest to load to you tube. Than I could share there. Maybe that’ll help?
 

Brendan

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Aug 27, 2013
Messages
3,661
Location
Boston, MA
I'm confident the bow is tuned. It is to manufacturers spec on axle to axle, center shot, brace height, draw length, and the cams are timed and in sync.

@OR Archer said this above but it's worth saying again - THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE BOW IS TUNED. This is a starting point, then you tune the bow to your grip, form, etc.

You do want to make sure form is as good as possible first, and more importantly your form is consistent shot-to-shot and you are getting a consistent tear, but most people still need to make adjustments.
 
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keith2210

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May 14, 2015
Messages
85
But why would you mess with your grip and shims if it’s simply the spine of your arrow.

I started with those because several people suggested it and I could do it at my house for free.

@OR Archer said this above but it's worth saying again - THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE BOW IS TUNED. This is a starting point, then you tune the bow to your grip, form, etc.

You do want to make sure form is as good as possible first, and more importantly your form is consistent shot-to-shot and you are getting a consistent tear, but most people still need to make adjustments.

Thanks for the clarification. I am still working on this. Also, I've got a couple videos but have yet to figure out how to get them on here.
 

Marble

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May 29, 2019
Messages
1,578
What is the arrow set up you are shooting including added point weight?

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keith2210

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May 14, 2015
Messages
85
What is the arrow set up you are shooting including added point weight?

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Easton Axis 5mm Match Grade
-340 spine
-50 grain hit insert
-100 grain field point
-27 inches carbon to carbon
 

Marble

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Joined
May 29, 2019
Messages
1,578
28.5" at 64 pounds
That seems in the realm of working. Kind of also depends on the specs of your bow.

If you have broadheads already, I would be curious to see what they do when shot with your field points. I'm guessing currently it won't go well.

You seem to be moving in the correct direction but you may need another set of hands/eyes to help out to get you where you need to be. We can be helpful from the internet, but most of us are just guessing based on past experience and without seeing the bow and seeing you shoot, it's tough.

I've had two different bows at the same draw weight and length, couldn't shoot the same arrow out of both. A spine change fixed it.

Also, your tear seems inconsistent. Which makes me suspect form is part of the issue. The tape can enhance grip pressure to predict torque on the grip, but can also be a problem if your grip is changing ever so slightly.

Lastly, something I've noticed from a couple newer shooters is lots of lefts and rights at closer yardage compared to longer distance. At close range people tend to overtime and really try to control that pin, forcing it in the dot. They do this by applying grip pressure. They get out to 40, 50 yards and beyond and shoot great groups because the float is acceptable to them at that range and shoot great groups. My wife struggles with this. I have to remind her to trust the float, trust the process and have good follow through. When she does this, she can stack arrows at 110 with 45# bow. When she doesn't, she misses at close range.

Remember with archery the saying is, "Change one thing, change everything."

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Badseed

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Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
216
Curious where you learned this? From what i understand, draw length at that small of adjustment will not help his tear issues, it has more to do with pin float. Unless your draw length is too long or short causing back arching or shoulders hunching, adjusting DL in small amounts ahouks be something that you shoot a lot of groups at different adjustments to see what tighens them, not to fix a tear.

that was the opinion of a coach i worked with, could be different philosophies though.

I was speaking directly to the draw length question and not the tight tear. Small draw length adjustments help with group sizing as it indicated by bare shaft testing. In the original photo, his bare shaft arrow hit slightly left of the fletched arrows. I failed to mention that form must be consistent first.


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