Frustrated - Ready to sell my Sh!t

[timekiller13]

It sounds like you are hunting in western NC. That's a tough place to cut your teeth on whitetail. Low deer densities, big woods, little habitat diversity all make for a challenge. That being said, there are deer there and you can kill them. I spent a significant amount of time hunting the Pisgah National Forest back in the early 2000's. I was like you, I could find tons of fresh deer sign, yet never see a deer. Then, I finally figured out that the deer sign I was seeing was being made at night. You need to get tight to their bedding areas.

Don't let people discourage you on the spot and stalk aspect. It can be done here in NC. In fact, the big woods of the national forest actually play out nicely to spot and stalk. That's how I shot my first deer on Pisgah. I found a big ridge and spent an entire day just slowly working my way along that ridge. Take a few steps, stop and look and glass. Learn how to move through the woods like a deer or a squirrel. Deer are not overly concerned with noise they hear, especially if it's rustling/crunch leaves. They rely on their nose more than anything. Put the wind in your face and just ease along. Getting within bow range can definitely be a challenge, but if you are competent at 50 yds, you probably can get that close. I shot my first one from the ground with a muzzleloader at 60 yds.

I actually do a lot of spot an stalk hunting. I mostly hunt public land in NW NC now. It's very similar to Pisgah, lots of big woods. There is a little more habitat diversity and higher deer densities, so that helps. But my favorite thing to do is to go on "walkabout." I just grab my weapon of choice and spend the day easing through the woods. Honestly, I probably spook more deer than I see, but, as long as I have the wind in my face, the ones I spook usually just trot off and then will stop and try to figure out what the heck that weird thing is moving through the woods.

You are free to PM me with questions. And, if you are hunting Pisgah National Forest, I may be able to steer you the direction of some places I had success in the past. I no longer hunt those areas, and I will be honest, my intel is several years old, but it still may help.

 

[Newtosavage]

This is 100% the problem - trying to use western hunting strategies on eastern whitetail. It just won’t work, especially on highly pressured public land.

OP: If you’re able to find spots with acorns dropping and rubs and scrapes in the vicinity, put a climbing stand up in a tree downwind of those spots and sit ALL DAY. Sit still, watch your scent, and stay there dark to dark. You’ll see deer. But you’re certainly not going to sneak up on a public land whitetail, no matter how scent proofed you are. They will see, hear, or smell you. You cannot use western strategies in the Carolinas. Full stop. I’ve gotten impatient and tried many times.

Scout good spots, get in a concealed stand, play the wind, and sit all day. You’ll see deer, and, during the rut, you’ll see big bucks. There’s a reason people have been hunting that way for a century - it works.


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And don't discount the middle of the day either, especially for rutting bucks. They know to avoid the early and late periods because that's when they see most of the people moving in the woods. So oftentimes they will run all night, and then also for a few hours mid-day, and they will remain bedded early and late.

 

[SCLawyer]

And don't discount the middle of the day either, especially for rutting bucks. They know to avoid the early and late periods because that's when they see most of the people moving in the woods. So oftentimes they will run all night, and then also for a few hours mid-day, and they will remain bedded early and late.

Agreed. As an example, we had a half dozen very nice, mature, shooter bucks on camera at a mineral site when I checked the camera Friday night. They were all on camera at various times between 1 and 4 AM last week. Never in the daytime hours or close to sunrise/sunset.

Two of my hunting buddies decided to sit early Saturday afternoon. Each of them jumped one of those bucks walking into their stand around 2:00 PM. My rule of thumb is - in the early season - if you're seeing mature bucks only in the middle of the night, hunt them roughly 12 hours later. So if they're on camera every night at 2 AM, get in the stand at 12:30 because you might catch one moving/feeding around 2 PM. There's no science behind that. Just my experience with mature bucks in the southeast.

 

[Newtosavage]

Agreed. As an example, we had a half dozen very nice, mature, shooter bucks on camera at a mineral site when I checked the camera Friday night. They were all on camera at various times between 1 and 4 AM last week. Never in the daytime hours or close to sunrise/sunset.

Two of my hunting buddies decided to sit early Saturday afternoon. Each of them jumped one of those bucks walking into their stand around 2:00 PM. My rule of thumb is - in the early season - if you're seeing mature bucks only in the middle of the night, hunt them roughly 12 hours later. So if they're on camera every night at 2 AM, get in the stand at 12:30 because you might catch one moving/feeding around 2 PM. There's no science behind that. Just my experience with mature bucks in the southeast.

precisely. I get most of my mature buck trailcam pics around midnight-2 a.m. and again from noon to two. They didn't get that old by being stupid.

 

[OXN939]

No its been open for almost 3 now. Friday it transitions to muzzle loader season. NC sucks for bow hunters as it gives us the worst part of the season for bow only.

My post, though is not just about this season... Like I said, I have been at this for 5 years now - 2 1/2 uninterrupted by long elk hunting trips which chew up the prime WT.

VA Whitetail hunter here who has a bunch of experience in NC as well. Pittsboro is east of the line where they can hunt dogs, correct? If so, you should really consider doing blackpowder. That is the only way to be successful on public land that I have found- once guys start running dogs, anything worth shooting is immediately nocturnal and bedding areas are disrupted, even if they've only been there a time or two before you. It hits that sweet spot between when animals start moving more and the insanity of general firearms season. That being said, we've got a nice high pressure system looking like it might hit this weekend... that would be an excellent time to be in the woods if you can swing it.

 

[TheGDog]

3. The closest public lands are a little over an hour away.

Just an hour? Lucky B@stard!

 

[SCLawyer]

precisely. I get most of my mature buck trailcam pics around midnight-2 a.m. and again from noon to two. They didn't get that old by being stupid.

Question for you. Like I mentioned above, this has definitely been my experience in the last decade. This is the first year we've used cameras on our 100-acre tract, and it has definitely confirmed the middle of the night/afternoon movement of mature bucks that we had always noticed anecdotally. What has been your experience once the rut starts? Do the feeding/movement times tend stay middle of the night/middle of the day and you just observe *more* movement when they're chasing during the day? Or do you see a shift to more traditional sunrise/sunset times for mature bucks?

 

[TheGDog]

Oh and to all the "have you put cameras" out guys... Its public land. Its hard to put cameras out and come back and find them - and that's an expensive lesson. I have a could of cheap cameras I will put out in less obvious locations, but that's rare.

They have this thing... it's called "GPS"... and you can "Mark a waypoint" with them. And get this!... it let's you come right back to exactly the same spot! (GASP! I know, right!?)

 

[Newtosavage]

Question for you. Like I mentioned above, this has definitely been my experience in the last decade. This is the first year we've used cameras on our 100-acre tract, and it has definitely confirmed the middle of the night/afternoon movement of mature bucks that we had always noticed anecdotally. What has been your experience once the rut starts? Do the feeding/movement times tend stay middle of the night/middle of the day and you just observe *more* movement when they're chasing during the day? Or do you see a shift to more traditional sunrise/sunset times for mature bucks?

Honestly, at the peak of the rut those bucks can and do show up every time of the day. Whenever a hot doe is moving, they will be moving with her.

 

[*zap*]

If it was e-z everyone would do it, thats why so many hunt managed lands and outfitters because it is less work with more reward. Some folks prefer the hard work and a more earned experience.

 

[WannabeHunter]

I agree with what all the above have told you.

My side note: If you are hunting big timber with little understory, most likely, they aren't bedding in there. I hunt 700+ acres in SC private and have hunted 20,000+ acres of public. I can narrow down most bedding areas to within 100 acres. Whitetail in the SE don't like the big open timber for bedding. They will generally try to find thicker areas for bedding, including CRP or cut timber that's over grown. That's probably why you aren't seeing them at your big timber locations consistently. Try to pinpoint different bedding areas. Walk their trails until you notice it get substantially thicker. Hunt trails out of the big stuff depending on wind. I like cross winds, not winds directly in my favor.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[Drenalin]

They have this thing... it's called "GPS"... and you can "Mark a waypoint" with them. And get this!... it let's you come right back to exactly the same spot! (GASP! I know, right!?)

I believe the OP is referring to the high potential for cameras to get stolen on public land, rather than his inability to physically locate where he set them out. I could be wrong.

 

[KHNC]

Dont know if its been said, but by your handle on here, i am surprised you would give up so easily. How can one become a wilderness master in less than 5 years of hunting ? Thats what inquiring minds want to know. And to agree with others, tree stand hunting is pretty much the only way to kill a mature WT in the south.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

finding sign is easy, finding the right sign is more difficult. Scat, acorns rubs and scrapes can all be laid down at any time of a 24 hour day..... usually when you're not there. Finding them where they bed is tougher and getting close to them is tougher yet. I have had far better sits sitting off food and closer to beds. I'm convinced now more than ever the easiest time to kill a deer is the first few weeks of season. I used to love the rut, now that I know more of what I'm doing I loathe it. It sends a proverbial bowling ball into the deer herd of pins I'm chasing. Those deer may only be moving <100yds in the day light..... they might not be even getting to those acorns or other sign until well after dark. Give Infalt's podcast a thorough listen.

 

[MeatBuck]

Maybe by now it’s been said but that sign you see is likely from nocturnal usage.
I have zero whitetail experience but using the info u provided, you aren’t hunting where they are during daylight hours.
Get further away from the feed and closer to bedding. It may only be first or last light that you get a shot at them so being close to the bedroom should give you the best chance of seeing one up and moving back from or towards the food source.

I see on YouTube where those saddles come in handy when trying to set up quietly close to bedding areas.

 

[zacattack]

Ask around to try and find some small acreage private lands that people will let you hunt. You’d be surprised as to what you can find. It’ll be less pressure than public land.
Also as an old timer once told me “ you can’t eat track or antlers”. Mostly meaning that signs are generally useless. They tell you where a deEr once was.

I also believe that while smell, camo etc is important the biggest issue most people face is being absolutely still. I mean you gotta be like a damn statue still. I think they can pick up on movementbetter than any other sense.

 

[fshaw]

I think one of the hardest thing for solitary hunters to do is slow down while moving and be sure to spend the time looking around you and not at the ground right in front of you. Also give yourself some room between where you set up and where you expect to see the deer. If you have the ability to shoot without interference from brush, find good cover 50-75 yards from where you expect the deer to come in, with the wind in your favor, of course. If it’s gusting from all directions you’ll probably have to be farther out than that. I also try to be sure my face and hands are covered if I’m sitting. I think deer pick up on those easily.

 

[Flatlander50]

If you decide to actually take up golf, get Callaway clubs and several flasks of whiskey.

Seriously- be patient - all of these guys are giving tons of great advice. I had a 3 year stretch on private ground where I never seen a deer. Changed tactics and got back into the groove. Be patient.

 

[Valkyrie]

I am at the end of my rope with whitetail hunting... About ready to sell all my stuff and take up golf (which I hate).

I started hunting late in life (5 years ago). The last 3 years I have probably spent more time elk hunting (out West) but have spent a decent amount of time whitetail hunting here back east where I live (NC).

I scout.

I actually am very skilled at finding deer sign. Like this weekend, a game warden gave me some new access points to public land and on my first trip in, I find a spot where it was clear deer were feeding on acorns (there was glistening scat) and a runway where literally every 30 yards a scrape and rubs. Clearly some runway a nice buck was using.

I have done this "blind" in several parcels of public land. Even have found bear...

But I can't "see" any deer nor get any within shooting distance.

I try to manage my scent, and definitely manage the wind. Scent wise I have an ozone box I keep my clothes in and run it before I go out. I also spray down with scent killer before walking in the woods. Wind wise, I do my best but these big woods parcels often have swirling/changing winds.

I manage my noise. Granted it is nearly impossible to be quiet in these places, as there are deadfall, twigs, and dried leaves EVERYWHERE. So I step, stop; step, step, stop; make scraping noises... otherwise try not to sound like a human and more like an animal moving through the woods.

The public lands I hunt are east coast big woods. They are semi (small) mountainous. There are hardwoods, evergreens (southern pines, junipers and faux cedars). I hunt the edges of these, I hunt the topographic changes, I hunt the bottoms, hedge rows.... You name it. I still hunt and set up stands.

And I KNOW, that this time of the season is tough to kill a deer, but i have done this (gun and archery) for 3 seasons and just not having any luck.

Any ideas I am open to.

there’s a lot of good advice in here. I’ve been hunting white tails since I was 12. Went along with my grandfather since I was five. Killed my first when I was 17. Seemed to get easier after that to tag a deer. I’ve been almost exclusively and archer for the last 25 years. Again it was a couple seasons before I tagged my first archery deer. It git easier after that and I haven’t gone a season since 1997 without tagging an archery deer.

a couple things I have learned. Still hunting whitetails is extremely difficult. I mean nuclear physics difficult. They are already wound as tight as a snare drum. They spook at almost anything. I watched them spook at each other on occasion. I’ve successfully stalked and killed two archery deer and I was very very lucky. I haven’t tried again in a long long time.

The next thing I learned is that most of the sign I have seen was made at night. Rubs, scrapes, tracks, etc. I quit using that as an indication of where to hunt specifically but instead as a place that they travel between food and bedding. Once you figure that travel route you can better figure the timing.

Hunt funnels and transition areas. Observe browse lines, that’s an indicator of deer travel even if there’s no trail. Utilize mapping software to find thickets, ravines, fields and other areas that usually hold deer. It’s an incredible tool.

And don’t give up. Successful hunters are the guys in the stand after everyone else is down and at the truck for coffee. They are the ones in the stand long before the birds start chirping. You’ll get hot, half frozen, soaked to the underwear, tired as a dog, and eventually you’ll connect. Then something happens. It starts to come together.

Pay attention to your instincts. Often we sense something is about to happen, a deer is coming, we just know it and then suddenly there it is! Like karma right? Wrong. Because most of us are so detached from nature except for a few days in the fall, we automatically filter out 90% of the background around us. Odors, movements, sounds, it all gets sent to the recycle bin. But your subconscious knows. You seen something move in the distance and your brain filters it out but you still are a predator. And as a predator? You have those instincts and senses. Pay attention to what your instincts tell you. If you suddenly feel like a deer is coming or nearby, you likely smelled or seen or heard something that didn’t register to your consciousness. But with enough experience you’ll learn to see that straight horizontal line that isn’t natural and realize it’s a deers back. That small twitch of an ear off in the distance. That odd musky odor you don’t recognize.

All of this will come together. Patience.

 

[SCLawyer]

there’s a lot of good advice in here. I’ve been hunting white tails since I was 12. Went along with my grandfather since I was five. Killed my first when I was 17. Seemed to get easier after that to tag a deer. I’ve been almost exclusively and archer for the last 25 years. Again it was a couple seasons before I tagged my first archery deer. It git easier after that and I haven’t gone a season since 1997 without tagging an archery deer.

a couple things I have learned. Still hunting whitetails is extremely difficult. I mean nuclear physics difficult. They are already wound as tight as a snare drum. They spook at almost anything. I watched them spook at each other on occasion. I’ve successfully stalked and killed two archery deer and I was very very lucky. I haven’t tried again in a long long time.

The next thing I learned is that most of the sign I have seen was made at night. Rubs, scrapes, tracks, etc. I quit using that as an indication of where to hunt specifically but instead as a place that they travel between food and bedding. Once you figure that travel route you can better figure the timing.

Hunt funnels and transition areas. Observe browse lines, that’s an indicator of deer travel even if there’s no trail. Utilize mapping software to find thickets, ravines, fields and other areas that usually hold deer. It’s an incredible tool.

And don’t give up. Successful hunters are the guys in the stand after everyone else is down and at the truck for coffee. They are the ones in the stand long before the birds start chirping. You’ll get hot, half frozen, soaked to the underwear, tired as a dog, and eventually you’ll connect. Then something happens. It starts to come together.

Pay attention to your instincts. Often we sense something is about to happen, a deer is coming, we just know it and then suddenly there it is! Like karma right? Wrong. Because most of us are so detached from nature except for a few days in the fall, we automatically filter out 90% of the background around us. Odors, movements, sounds, it all gets sent to the recycle bin. But your subconscious knows. You seen something move in the distance and your brain filters it out but you still are a predator. And as a predator? You have those instincts and senses. Pay attention to what your instincts tell you. If you suddenly feel like a deer is coming or nearby, you likely smelled or seen or heard something that didn’t register to your consciousness. But with enough experience you’ll learn to see that straight horizontal line that isn’t natural and realize it’s a deers back. That small twitch of an ear off in the distance. That odd musky odor you don’t recognize.

All of this will come together. Patience.

Beautifully put. Couldn’t agree more with this.

And OP - don’t take any of this advice as criticism. We all want to help you. I’ve been an SC whitetail hunter for 25 years and I dream of going on a public land elk hunt out west. After an hour of being in a stand and seeing nothing, I still get an urge to go walk the earth and sneak up on a WT. Believe me. I’ve tried. It never works out. What works is picking a good location, sitting still, and staying there for hours. If you picked the right spot, the deer will come.

Very much agree with finding a private tract to hunt like the food plot you mentioned. I hunt 100 acres with almost no hunting pressure (other than me). I missed a long shot on a doe Saturday morning because I got the heart pounding, first of the year shakes. I was so angry at myself. It felt like a clean miss, but I walked the edge down to the area to make sure there was no blood or sign of a hit deer (there wasn’t). In hindsight, I should have stayed put but I had that awful feeling that I was 99% sure I missed and 1% scared I injured a deer but didn’t kill her.

I thought my spot was blown and thought about switching stands, but I felt confident in my time of day and location. Back to the stand I went. 30 minutes later, a wary mature doe crept out. Then 30 minutes later a 2.5 year old 6-point walked across, and he’s in the freezer now. Not a monster by any means, but a nice meat buck.

Point is, you don’t have to be perfect every time to fill the freezer. You do have to be perfect (or lucky) to kill a wall hanger. But none of that matters if you don’t know where they’re moving, what time they’re moving, where you can put a stand to be concealed from their sight but still get a shot, and put in the hours.

Tell us more about your farm and food plot and we might be able to give you some good advice about how to turn it into a prime hunting spot. A lot of posters on this thread know a lot about WT hunting (and a hell of a lot more than I do).


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