Gapping?

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I'm saving up for a new recurve, shooting the Hoyt compound now.

When I do get the Black Widow in, I've decided that I'm going to abandon the "instinctive" method and try to gap shoot.

Looks simple enough, just curious to see if there was a way to figure out roughly what arrow speed/weight and poundage to fall in a particular range for the gap?
 

LostArra

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I'm no help on your questions but I would suggest Jimmy Blackmon's youtube videos on gapping. And you might also want to look at trying a fixed crawl which allows you to put the point of the arrow on the target rather than some distance below it (gapping). Jimmy Blackmon has a good video on fixed crawl too.
 

Tartan

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I'm saving up for a new recurve, shooting the Hoyt compound now.

When I do get the Black Widow in, I've decided that I'm going to abandon the "instinctive" method and try to gap shoot.

Looks simple enough, just curious to see if there was a way to figure out roughly what arrow speed/weight and poundage to fall in a particular range for the gap?


There are too many variables to get a common answer. Arrow length and anchor position can create huge changes in your gap with identical velocity.

High anchor and long arrows are going to decrease your gap and point on distance. A low anchor and short arrows will increase your gap and point on distance even at the same speed. You won't really be able to figure it out until you test your set-up.

Get an arrow set-up and tuned at a reasonable weight for hunting. If you end up with a larger gap than you like you can either play with your anchor point, or use the fixed crawl as mentioned. Personally, I have a hard time getting the arrow under my eye and proper alignment with a high anchor due to the shape of my face. But others can do it no problem.

I think you should be able to find a good compromise inside of 30 yards with a fixed crawl at most any speed. Essentially able to keep the point on fur at any range inside 30 yards.
 

Tartan

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It depends. Primarily on bow length. It will be harder to find acceptable tune with a very short bow. But lots of guys/gals shoot a bolt down or one piece bow with a fixed crawl.

Fine tuning with it can be a bit of a cat and mouse game. As you crawl down, I think most will have to raise their nocking point. Well if you found point on, but raised your nocking point to then fine tune it, you just changed your point on again. Once you get close its just minor tweaks back and forth.

If you look up the original "the push" video on youtube, they go into a lot of detail about the fixed crawl and I'm sure have a lot of other good information for tuning for it.

Number one priority should be correct/consistent form. You can't fine tune a bow, and be consistent with any aiming method if your form is all over the place. Gap, fixed crawl, string walking, face walking, instincti-gap, instinctive, etc all come second.
 

Beendare

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Some good commentary.
if you are ordering a BW be sure to have them tiller for 3 under.

I gap shoot and use the fixed crawl. I don't purely look at the gap [like a pistol shooter looks at the front sight] I typically set my gap, then look at a spot on the target. So there is a little bit of instinctive going on there....at least with most guys. The gap just gives me a reference point to start aiming.

"Masters of the barebow vid vol 3"- Rod Jenkins has a really good segment on gap...and shooting.

The key factor in gap shooting is that the mid point distance between your Point on and the target will be your largest gap. [tighter gaps are inherently more accurate] So if your point on is say 55 yds vs say 35 yds...you will have large gaps for a lot of the avg bowhunting distances you will be shooting at game. You can adjust your PO distance to suit your shooting. Fixed Crawl puts the arrow right under your eye and you can adjust which distance you want your PO to be. So lets say you want to shoot Vegas 20 yd targets...you can adjust your FC to be right on at 20 yds.

My only issue with FC is you lose a little of the bows energy and the arrow flight just isn't quite as good. [remember, target accuracy and arrow flight can be 2 separate things]

Most guys try to shorten their point on to make their gaps smaller to fit their shooting. You can accomplish this with a higher anchor point....and/or a longer arrow. Your gaps are one of the reason a fixed crawl is so accurate....the gap is small...or not at all. For me, typically my PO is 38 yds...and my gap at 20yds is 7/8 inch.
 

DWinVA

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I shoot instinctive (I don't really like that term...maybe subconscious gap?) but have read, listened (podcasts) and watched a lot about other bare bow aiming. I suggest learning all you can about the bare bow aiming methods with the resources mentioned above plus check out the The Push YouTube and their podcast.

I currently shoot and hunt with an ILF recurve and in my opinion it will give you the most tuning adjustments for spilt finger, gapping, fixed crawl, etc.

Good luck and God Bless.
 

BigHink66

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LOL! Are you sure your ready for this?

1. There is no such thing as instinctive shooting.

2. Your stepping away from tech and trying to make it technical. As if you can plug in some variables and then your gaps a pre set. No one can answer that. You may have a horse face with skinny fingers and no one can predict that.

3 The first thing you’ll need to do is tune the arrow to your bow
 
OP
Jacob Chapman
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LOL! Are you sure your ready for this?

1. There is no such thing as instinctive shooting.

2. Your stepping away from tech and trying to make it technical. As if you can plug in some variables and then your gaps a pre set. No one can answer that. You may have a horse face with skinny fingers and no one can predict that.

3 The first thing you’ll need to do is tune the arrow to your bow

I'm sure. I've shot trad in the past, just never got the accuracy I wanted/felt was possible.

I took Rod Jenkins class (highly recommend by the way) but he didn't go over aiming methods with us, this was strictly form-which I found highly useful....may take it again in fact.

I was just curious to get an idea as to other guys setup as far as draw weight, arrow speed and arrow weight. I don't want a point on at 38 yards if I can at all help it, and I knew going into it that a heavier/slower arrow had higher or lower gaps, I would shift my thinking/planning (hope that made sense).

So for example, do I need to get a 50# bow and quit trying to overbow myself, or get a 60# and just be hyper critical of my form making sure that I execute a perfect shot everytime? A 60# bow has more energy, and I can shoot a heavier arrow faster-all well and good. Unless it puts my point on at 60 yards-then I'd have to go with a stupid heavy arrow....whereas if I go with a 50-52# bow, and arrows 10 gpp or so-would my point on be more in the 30 yard range.. See what I mean?
 

Beendare

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So for example, do I need to get a 50# bow and quit trying to overbow myself.....

Its best to start shooting at a lower poundage than 50#. ....35# is a good start. I'm sure Rod Jenkins said as much.

A cheap starter bow can be [found and] sold in the classifieds for about what you pay for it.

It sounds to me like you are putting the cart before the horse....I would get your form right..... then get your arrow spine right... you can start fiddling from there.

A 50# bow will kill any animal in North America. Putting a very efficient 2 blade head on an arrow turns it into a very deadly weapon and makes bow weight almost a non issue.
 
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BigHink66

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Most 3 under shoots have point on of roughly 40.

Split finger will be further some out to more than 50.

Fixed crawl you can set to whatever you want inside your point on range.

As a rule the closer the arrow to the eye the lower the point on will be.
 
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Jacob Chapman
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Its best to start shooting at a lower poundage than 50#. ....35# is a good start. I'm sure Rod Jenkins said as much.

A cheap starter bow can be [found and] sold in the classifieds for about what you pay for it.

It sounds to me like you are putting the cart before the horse....I would get your form right..... then get your arrow spine right... you can start fiddling from there.

A 50# bow will kill any animal in North America. Putting a very efficient 2 blade head on an arrow turns it into a very deadly weapon and makes bow weight almost a non issue.

I took Rods class with a light bow. Shooting a compound I think I really helped as far as how I grip my trad bow, as well as using back tension vs pulling with my arm.
 

Greencb

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I own 2 widows a PA and a PMA. I have 2 different sets of limbs for the PMA. Each bow shoots a "user friendly" gap at 10gpp. 10 grains per pound.
As others have said several variables are at play but I am confident you can find a very comfortable sight picture at 10gpp.

In IBO 3d the goal is to never run a gap that is outside of the 8 "lungs" past 20 yards. The same logic would be applicable to setting up a hunting arrow.

50lbs is very heavy, it will be difficult to build a good shot process with that weight.
 

lumis17

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Too many variables to try to pre-determine what your gaps will be, but if you’re looking for a close point-on I’d definitely try shooting an arrow in the 10+gpp range. I should probably write more things down, but, if I remember correctly, shooting 50# my 3-under point-on is ~45 yards at 8gpp and ~35 yards at 10gpp.

The nice thing about ILF bows is you can get decent limbs at various poundages without breaking the bank.
 
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oldgoat

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I'm sure. I've shot trad in the past, just never got the accuracy I wanted/felt was possible.

I took Rod Jenkins class (highly recommend by the way) but he didn't go over aiming methods with us, this was strictly form-which I found highly useful....may take it again in fact.

I was just curious to get an idea as to other guys setup as far as draw weight, arrow speed and arrow weight. I don't want a point on at 38 yards if I can at all help it, and I knew going into it that a heavier/slower arrow had higher or lower gaps, I would shift my thinking/planning (hope that made sense).

So for example, do I need to get a 50# bow and quit trying to overbow myself, or get a 60# and just be hyper critical of my form making sure that I execute a perfect shot everytime? A 60# bow has more energy, and I can shoot a heavier arrow faster-all well and good. Unless it puts my point on at 60 yards-then I'd have to go with a stupid heavy arrow....whereas if I go with a 50-52# bow, and arrows 10 gpp or so-would my point on be more in the 30 yard range.. See what I mean?

In general, you won't see a lot of difference in point on distance between a 50# and a 60# bow of the same basic design because you will generally have to use a higher weight arrow for the 60# bow. You won't likely end up with an overly long point on if you anchor 3 under
 

bobinmi

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If you want to do a dedicated gap shooting method you need to map it out for your bow. I mapped it in 5 yard increments with a perfectly tuned bow. I didn't like how large the gaps were and I ended up switching to a fixed crawl.
 
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I took Rods class with a light bow. Shooting a compound I think I really helped as far as how I grip my trad bow, as well as using back tension vs pulling with my arm.
Just curious, when you did shoot your trad bow did you give up shooting your compound entirely? IMHO dont think one could become truly accurate has he could be when switching back and forth. Other then that everything Beendare said goes.
 
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Jacob Chapman
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Just curious, when you did shoot your trad bow did you give up shooting your compound entirely? IMHO dont think one could become truly accurate has he could be when switching back and forth. Other then that everything Beendare said goes.

I did not-I enjoy shooting both too much to go one way full time (at least for now)
 
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I sold my compound last season and switched to a recurve (Samick sage). Started at 35lb limbs and then went to 50lb. I like the fixed crawl. I’m down about 1/4 in below my nock, which allows me to anchor on my face with pointer finger in corner of mouth, nose on he nock, thumb joint against corner of jaw bone, eye lined up over arrow. Makes for a very repeatable system. I shoot indoors at 18 yards and learned what my sight picture needs to look like. With slight adjustment I can shoot a bit farther (25 or so), and shorter shots are very easy. This system worked great for me and I killed two whitetails this year and really boosted my confidence. Highly recommend fixed crawl.
 
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