Gapping?

Takeem406

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I'm saving up for a new recurve, shooting the Hoyt compound now.

When I do get the Black Widow in, I've decided that I'm going to abandon the "instinctive" method and try to gap shoot.

Looks simple enough, just curious to see if there was a way to figure out roughly what arrow speed/weight and poundage to fall in a particular range for the gap?
As you learn your gaps you'll learn to become instinctive. If I pick up a different bow or change arrow weight I'll definitely be more aware of where my arrow is in relation to the target. Then after a few misses, an arrow in the neighbors roof, I'm golden to just use the Force lol.

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ScottinPA

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LOL! Are you sure your ready for this?

1. There is no such thing as instinctive shooting.

2. Your stepping away from tech and trying to make it technical. As if you can plug in some variables and then your gaps a pre set. No one can answer that. You may have a horse face with skinny fingers and no one can predict that.

3 The first thing you’ll need to do is tune the arrow to your bow


Curious regarding your comment #1. Please explain. Thx.
 

BigHink66

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I don’t believe in instinctive shooting. Whether they choose to accept it, in order to be accurate they must anchor, release, and follow through the same on each shot. If even on the slightest subconscious level they must be aware or the bow arm, arrow, and target.

The idea of instinctive shooting slows down the ability to achieve accuracy over various ranges.

Gap shooters or split vision progress to more of an instinctive shooting after learning and practicing a process till it becomes second nature. To think you can ever just begin shooting and that your concentration is what will get your arrow on target is absurd to me. I think that mentality causes people to experience inconsistent results and keeps them at shorter distances than a gap shooter who progresses to split vision will experience.

Even the analogy of throwing a baseball is not appropriate. In throwing you have control over every part of the process. There is no machine that disconnects you from the ball. It’s much easier to obtain accuracy with a ball, but still takes practice and learned muscle memory.
 

TomM

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Thanks for the YouTube suggestions, been wanting to try 3/under gap for a while, now I’m armed with a bit more knowledge...though I better stock up on shafts first😁
 

Beendare

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I would agree with BH66's comment.

I mostly shoot gap....but when I'm my most accurate its a process of setting the gap on the draw....and then aiming with a little split vision [or instinctive, whatever term you want to call it] mixed in.

..
 

ScottinPA

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BH66 - we'll have to agree to disagree.

I played with gap and string walking 35+ years ago but when I came back to the recurve almost 20 years ago, I shot instinctive only. If I have the arrow in my peripheral at all my shot won't be as accurate. Same with thinking about anchor, back tension, etc. Concentration must be wholly on the smallest portion of the target.

Sure it may be slower to achieve accuracy at various distances but so what. I choose to put the work in and engrain the trajectory. The accuracy will come with practice.

When you throw a ball, do you think of all the mechanics of doing so? No, but you need to have proper grip, follow thru, etc to do it accurately. Practice engrains it.
 

Btaylor

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BH66, I will have to disagree as well. My dad who was an instinctive shooter started me on a recurve when I was 7. The instruction was simple, pick a tiny spot on the target and burn a hole in it with my focus, dont look at the bow or the arrow, only the tiny spot on the target. When I asked how the arrow would go to the spot, his answer was with repetition the body will adjust on its own so the arrow goes where you intend for it too like throwing a ball.

I credit his and others ability to shoot running and flying targets to not needing a gap or sight or any number of shooting crutches if you will. Just look at what you want to hit with laser like focus and shoot those shots over and over again.

I do agree with you that for basic accuracy or decent hunting accuracy a sighting method will absolutely shorten the curve.
 

BigHink66

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How far do you guys shoot instinctively?

Do you practice?

More importantly, how do you go through the process of tuning? So that your assured of the results and have a tuned arrow and bow.
 

Btaylor

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Longest measured shot I have tried was 160 yards. Took 5 shots, had 2 arrows 4-5 feet from the target, rest were a 10-15 feet away. We were shooting at a 3D bear with about a 10-mph crosswind. I was pretty happy with that effort considering I had never shot at anything much past 50 yards before that. Normal practice is out to 40, Can only shoot 25 at the house.

You dont really practice with a stickbow, you go shoot it, a lot, cause it is fun, cause watching an arrow hit where it is supposed to is fun...it's nothing like practice at all, practice sucks.

A lot of similarities tuning a trad bow and a compound but some real differences too. The hard part of tuning for a new or newer shooter is they may not a have a consistently repeatable shot, hard to tune without that. Adjustments on the bow are basically strike plate, brace height and nock height if shooting off the shelf. With the arrow it is basically arrow length and front weight assuming you start with what should be a reasonably close spine.

Paper, bare shaft and walk back all get used. Tweak what can be tweaked til they act right.
 

ScottinPA

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Bare shaft & paper tune. Broadhead flight shows if it's tuned.

I do a lot of shooting 3-4 arrows at 10, then 20 then 30 then 40 then back thru to 10. A lot of chasing tennis ball with judos and stumping. Occasionally I'll do 3D's. Hope to do more this year.
 

MadDawg

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Instinctive shooting is what I have primarily used most of my life. Just a fair warning, while there is nothing wrong with gap shooting at all, it will almost ruin you "instinctively" if it doesn't work for you. I understand the argument for "no such thing as instinctive" and that is just because they have never been a truly instinctive shooter. It can mess with your head at times, being able to sink through a deer, but cant keep it in paper. I suggest learning your point on, then shooting enough until you have a mangled combination of gap and instinctive.


And don't let the naysayers confuse you! Just get out there and do what works for you! I have killed a lot of deer, and a turkey on the run, and in all of those moments, the tip of the arrow was the farthest thing from my mind.
 

MadDawg

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[

Even the analogy of throwing a baseball is not appropriate. In throwing you have control over every part of the process. There is no machine that disconnects you from the ball. It’s much easier to obtain accuracy with a ball, but still takes practice and learned muscle memory.
[/QUOTE]

Can you please explain this to me? how is throwing a ball one bit different than shooting?

I guess I was always the fat kid and was bad at baseball, so that must be why I can shoot good;)
 

Btaylor

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"Mangled combination of gap and instinctive" LOL. That is a pretty accurate description of what I am playing with right now. After a long lay off from shooting trad bows instinctively, I decided I would try shooting gap. Set the target up and figured my gaps to 30 but absolutely hated trying to remember to look at the arrow tip at full draw. So I flipped it and started over with setting my gaps pre-draw. Now I set the gap and can go back on auto pilot of just zeroing in on the target as I proceed through the shot. Certainly not the recommended way but it is working for me so far.
 

PHo

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I understand the argument for "no such thing as instinctive" and that is just because they have never been a truly instinctive shooter.

This ^

In my experience most people who tell me that there's no way I can shoot instinctive are usually guys who have never experienced a truly instinctive shot, and therefore don't really seek to try out instinctive shooting before finding an aiming system that they can more easily adapt to.
 

BigHink66

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No one ever had to teach you anything that is instinctive.

Most of you have admitted to practicing, if you were instinctive you'd pick up any bow and hit your target. There would be no need to practice. By practicing, you learned where to hold the string, where to hold your bow arm, where to position your feet, and whether you choose to admit due to your laser focus.... You learned the relationship between the arrow and the target in your sight picture and how it should look for distance.


Don't believe me, then find a way to block the bow and arrow from your view and see how you shoot. You are all closet GAPPERS!

I am not going to argue about it anymore, you have your styles and your happy with your results. Call it whatever, but its not instinctive. Its a learned action.
 

MadDawg

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and yes I now am a "closet gapper" since I made myself try gap, since it was sooo great ya know:)
 

PHo

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No one ever had to teach you anything that is instinctive.

Most of you have admitted to practicing, if you were instinctive you'd pick up any bow and hit your target. There would be no need to practice. By practicing, you learned where to hold the string, where to hold your bow arm, where to position your feet, and whether you choose to admit due to your laser focus.... You learned the relationship between the arrow and the target in your sight picture and how it should look for distance.


Don't believe me, then find a way to block the bow and arrow from your view and see how you shoot. You are all closet GAPPERS!

I am not going to argue about it anymore, you have your styles and your happy with your results. Call it whatever, but its not instinctive. Its a learned action.

Sounds like you’ve never experienced a truly instinctive shot.
 

ScottinPA

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No one ever had to teach you anything that is instinctive.

Most of you have admitted to practicing, if you were instinctive you'd pick up any bow and hit your target. There would be no need to practice. By practicing, you learned where to hold the string, where to hold your bow arm, where to position your feet, and whether you choose to admit due to your laser focus.... You learned the relationship between the arrow and the target in your sight picture and how it should look for distance.


Don't believe me, then find a way to block the bow and arrow from your view and see how you shoot. You are all closet GAPPERS!

I am not going to argue about it anymore, you have your styles and your happy with your results. Call it whatever, but its not instinctive. Its a learned action.

Instinctive - focus on target and target only
Gapping - use point of arrow to aim

That's the difference. Both require form and practice, just like anything else.
 
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