Gels when running

TxxAgg

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I am via my garmin watch but no way it is accurate. It is saying average on run is 176.

Thanks for all the input guys.

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That's your issue there. You need to slow down to keep your heart rate down. You'll be able to run much longer. Don't take my word for it...I'm still new at this.

Go research it. Literally every running coach out there will tell you to run 80% of your runs at a slower pace (keeping heartrate in the aerobic zones) to increase overall endurance.

You likely won't need additional calories until you hit double digit miles.
 
OP
WoodBow

WoodBow

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That's your issue there. You need to slow down to keep your heart rate down. You'll be able to run much longer. Don't take my word for it...I'm still new at this.

Go research it. Literally every running coach out there will tell you to run 80% of your runs at a slower pace (keeping heartrate in the aerobic zones) to increase overall endurance.

You likely won't need additional calories until you hit double digit miles.
I'm all for trying slower. I enjoy slower much more. My brain is the problem. It is the reason I quit running years ago. I always ran 5k training runs back then. But my brain thought I should be faster every day and that every day should be a new PR. And I just couldn't keep pushing myself that hard every day because it was not fun any more. I still want to push it every day. Do a little better every day. And I likely expect too much too soon. I'm only on about my 20th run since starting back. And I was running 0 zero miles until starting back. Working out, but not running. So i recognize that it is foolish to expect what I expect out of myself. My last 6 miles was a 8:50 average pace. I want it to be 8:00 and I want it yesterday. But I am going to take all the advice here, chill out, and slow down.
 

TxxAgg

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I'm all for trying slower. I enjoy slower much more. My brain is the problem. It is the reason I quit running years ago. I always ran 5k training runs back then. But my brain thought I should be faster every day and that every day should be a new PR. And I just couldn't keep pushing myself that hard every day because it was not fun any more. I still want to push it every day. Do a little better every day. And I likely expect too much too soon. I'm only on about my 20th run since starting back. And I was running 0 zero miles until starting back. Working out, but not running. So i recognize that it is foolish to expect what I expect out of myself. My last 6 miles was a 8:50 average pace. I want it to be 8:00 and I want it yesterday. But I am going to take all the advice here, chill out, and slow down.
The pros will tell you to run slower to get faster. Go down the youtube rabbit hole.
 

Highhuntin

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I say slow down, 6 miles you shouldn’t need fuel but it may help you get through to the next stage, each time I upped my mileage that last mile was tough! increase your mileage slowly. Take a handheld for water I like the soft Nathan exo shot, seems to be the most comfortable and easiest to run with for me.
 

Highhuntin

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Gels I never liked as they would mess with my stomach. Honey stinger waffles are good, dried bananas, soft granola bars/fig newtons like mtwarden said are great! Tailwind is good stuff but there is others like it that may be a better fit.
 
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WoodBow

WoodBow

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I did 9 miles Saturday morning at 0630. I did it fasted besides a glass of water before heading out the door. This was about 50% further than I have been running. Plus I did not run all week due to work schedule. So I planned on shooting for a 10 minute pace. Roughly a minute slower than what I have been trying to do, and taking into consideration all of yalls suggestions to run slower. None of it was awful, but I was quite tired for the last mile. I will attach my splits. Don't mind the first mile time. Not sure why it always registers weird, besides that I have to let it auto-pause while I shove it into my fanny pack. The automated notification said the first mile was 9 minutes even.

I did read up a bit on the concept of running slower to run faster. From what I understood it is basically adapting the body for endurance. Which I suppose is my ultimate goal. No race plans for me. Just high country mule deer to kill.

Running is an odd drug, at least for me. I wasn't really having fun past about mile 3. I plan my routes so that I can not just quit because I still have to get back home either way. If I was on a treadmill I would have no doubt stopped around mile 5. I was plenty tired by then. But I knew I could keep going. I also knew the feeling of accomplishment I could enjoy if I just completed the planned route. The rest of the route was just discomfort. I can't wait to do it again.

I also believe my garmin watch HR values to be quite inaccurate, as I said before. I looked into buying a chest strap and may go that route eventually. I used the whoop system for about a year and felt it read quite accurately, but hated paying a monthly fee. I think the key difference in accuracy may be the elastic strap, maintaining solid contact while not being uncomfortable. I found some replacement ones online for my garmin. I will give them a shot before dropping $100 on a garmin chest strap. I will also attach a screenshot of my HR reading. There is a very apparent shift from what I believe to be accurate, to not.
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Highhuntin

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9 miles is no joke! I remember the first time I hit 10 I was so happy to be in double digits! Maybe you need to wet the heart rate monitor before the start, it may be off until a bit of sweat makes the contact? (Seems I read sometimes about that) and yes it is a drug, I love that feeling of accomplishment. Some runs just suck no matter what though. I’d say your pace Is still a bit faster then it should be while building mileage but I don’t know your past or anything else so maybe not 🤷‍♂️
 

P Carter

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I did 9 miles Saturday morning at 0630. I did it fasted besides a glass of water before heading out the door. This was about 50% further than I have been running. Plus I did not run all week due to work schedule. So I planned on shooting for a 10 minute pace. Roughly a minute slower than what I have been trying to do, and taking into consideration all of yalls suggestions to run slower. None of it was awful, but I was quite tired for the last mile. I will attach my splits. Don't mind the first mile time. Not sure why it always registers weird, besides that I have to let it auto-pause while I shove it into my fanny pack. The automated notification said the first mile was 9 minutes even.

I did read up a bit on the concept of running slower to run faster. From what I understood it is basically adapting the body for endurance. Which I suppose is my ultimate goal. No race plans for me. Just high country mule deer to kill.

Running is an odd drug, at least for me. I wasn't really having fun past about mile 3. I plan my routes so that I can not just quit because I still have to get back home either way. If I was on a treadmill I would have no doubt stopped around mile 5. I was plenty tired by then. But I knew I could keep going. I also knew the feeling of accomplishment I could enjoy if I just completed the planned route. The rest of the route was just discomfort. I can't wait to do it again.

I also believe my garmin watch HR values to be quite inaccurate, as I said before. I looked into buying a chest strap and may go that route eventually. I used the whoop system for about a year and felt it read quite accurately, but hated paying a monthly fee. I think the key difference in accuracy may be the elastic strap, maintaining solid contact while not being uncomfortable. I found some replacement ones online for my garmin. I will give them a shot before dropping $100 on a garmin chest strap. I will also attach a screenshot of my HR reading. There is a very apparent shift from what I believe to be accurate, to not.
ea856f8bf30b6c1552ff843c291314db.jpg
6c745dd3e3b4b3d418505c3838f48a58.jpg


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Agreed, 9 miles is great work.

Optical hr monitors are terrible. But you should be able to gauge by your exertion. Aerobic pace would be “conversational,” ie, you could carry on a conversation with a running partner speaking in full sentences. (Not like droning on and on, but legit speaking a few sentences at a time.) if you’re huffing and puffing, it’s not aerobic.
Over time you’ll develop a pretty good sense of this. Also, I know life gets in the way, but the endurance adaptations need consistent, low intensity stimulus to develop. So 9 miles on a weekend is great, but running 4ish days a week is all the better. Great work, in any case!

Edit: it may help to think of it less of “running slower to run faster”, and more of, “when you run slow, run slow, and when you run fast, run fast.” Run slower on the typical day, with the goal of recovering and building base miles, then 1 or 2 days run some true speed workouts—8 by 400 yards as fast as you can while maintaining even splits, 2 minute recovery in between each, something like that. That way you are working on both speed and aerobic base while avoiding the “gray zone” when you’re not working either.0
 
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TxxAgg

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Keep us updated.

And make sure you're getting plenty of rest.
 

G_Tacoma

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If you head down the YouTube rabbit hole check out Nick Bare. He’s a weightlifter turned endurance runner and he does quite a few mini series on how to increase endurance and what to eat before/during/and after.
 

timekiller13

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Looks like you doing well.

I had the same issue. Wanting to run fast and couldn’t get it in my head that I needed to slow down. I was trying to maintain 5k pace for 10+ miles. That was just resulting in frustration.

I slowed my pace down to about where you are (10-10:15 min/mile) for any run over 10 miles. Man, what a difference. I feel great after those runs at that pace. I even feel like I could just keep going. Beforehand, when trying for a faster pace, I would be completely exhausted and would actually end up having a slower overall pace due to crapping out in the last mile or two.

I still have my “fast” days. I’ll do a short run (3-5 miles) at 8:30-8:45 pace. But anything over that distance I try and slow it down.

I’m 78 days out from my first marathon. 3 months ago when I started seriously training, I didn’t think I was ever going to make it to even half marathon distance, much less a whole one. But, after slowing down, I can run further and longer without feeling like death at the end.
 

cs1

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I’ve tried pretty much every gel on the market and my stomach finally settled on Huma (hard to find in a running store). The only GU i can tolerate is the salted caramel. I found a gel once every 30 minutes good for me for runs over 10 miles. On really long runs i have to have solid food and absolutely CANNOT do Tailwind.

Distance running is all about figuring out what your body wants and when it wants it; it’s also a moving target. Constant experimenting and evolution and every body is different.

When i lived in Texas i could go for six miles with no water but here in New Mexico i rarely step out without at least a handheld and most often go with a vest and two bottles. A hint about bladders- find a pack/vest that hugs you. A typical Calebak pack rocks and sways too much for me and led to some neck pain by subconciously trying to correct for the sway.
 

iShoot17

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Personally - I use Hammer products. Gels, Endurolytes, Perpetuem, and Recoverite.

I ran through highschool, college, and now run ultra marathons competitively. I would agree that speed and distance have their places. We’ve done months on end of high intensity interval / fartlek / tempo based training at distances ranging from 5-18 miles through college, and we’ve also gone out and done heart rate based stuff that required low and slow.

Now, training is more based on recovery and pushing distance, with speed involved when appropriate. Weekends usually end up being back-to-back long runs. With one day tending to be fast on roads, then next being slower and on trails.

I say all of this from the perspective of speed and chill running are both necessary - for all levels of running. Patience and consistency lead to endurance. If you feel you need a gel at mile five, then take it. Everyone and every body is different. Train how you need.
 

TxxAgg

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If you head down the YouTube rabbit hole check out Nick Bare. He’s a weightlifter turned endurance runner and he does quite a few mini series on how to increase endurance and what to eat before/during/and after.
That guy is impressive. Real impressive. He's always trying to sell something, though, and I have hard time getting through his videos.

Bump for the OP. Let us know how it's going.
 
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WoodBow

WoodBow

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That guy is impressive. Real impressive. He's always trying to sell something, though, and I have hard time getting through his videos.

Bump for the OP. Let us know how it's going.
It's not going at all because of this annoying thing called work. Last week was just nuts. I did do 7 miles on the galveston seawall weekend before last. Enjoyed that at a moderate pace.

Gonna have to get back on that horse though because September is coming and the mountains don't care how busy I am or that it's 105 degrees every day!

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mtnbiker208

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I am not runner, but a mountain biker. right around an hour of excercise, you don't need water or calories, over that you need to start adding calories and water. after 2 hours you need to add protein, and calories. after 4 hours you need to be a tough mental person who is adding calories, protein and water on a consistent basis. once you get into the 8 hour mark, just suck it up butter cup.
 
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WoodBow

WoodBow

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Had not run in over a week. Did 45 mins of wall balls, burpees, and heavy squat cleans on Saturday (after also having not lifted in a while). That was a recipe for some very sore legs. I was pretty worn out after tearing the roof off part of my house in the heat but a tiny front blew in and dropped the temps so I decided to get some miles in yesterday. Plan was just to log miles at whatever pace I could manage to move at. I felt like I was barely moving. Legs were not happy. But I was fine not pushing it. I would have guessed I averaged between 10 and 11 minute pace. Checked my garmin app this morning and I averaged 9:36. Really surprised by that. Other than my legs being beat up already, it felt like I could do that pace for a long time.

Only thing different than normal was that I normally start "fast" and gradually slow down as I tire. Yesterday I just started slow and stayed slow but average pace came out about the same as my longer runs when I feel good. So should I be just trying to keep the same pace from start to finish?

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WoodBow

WoodBow

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Had my best run yet this morning. Lots of variables so hard to say what to attribute the success to. I had fairly low expectations due to not having been running as much as I was leading up to running this route last. Variables included a great value energy drink mix in about 16 ounces of water, a handful of gummy bears, about 3-4 ozs of pickle juice, a friend ran the first 4 miles with me, had a packet of apple sauce at mile 7, and I recently quit drinking alcohol. I'd be willing to bet the not drinking had the largest impact.

I really felt like a million bucks. Last mile was the only one that felt like a bit of a struggle but I was also trying to pick up the pace to stay sub 9 average pace.
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TxxAgg

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You're doing well. You will still hit a wall if you don't watch your heart rate. Seriously, watch some youtube videos. It's one of the few things these days that has 100% consensus.
 

grfox92

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Had my best run yet this morning. Lots of variables so hard to say what to attribute the success to. I had fairly low expectations due to not having been running as much as I was leading up to running this route last. Variables included a great value energy drink mix in about 16 ounces of water, a handful of gummy bears, about 3-4 ozs of pickle juice, a friend ran the first 4 miles with me, had a packet of apple sauce at mile 7, and I recently quit drinking alcohol. I'd be willing to bet the not drinking had the largest impact.

I really felt like a million bucks. Last mile was the only one that felt like a bit of a struggle but I was also trying to pick up the pace to stay sub 9 average pace.
d8735a4ee347efa333951da37e66e3b2.jpg
700f7597c0e64df74e96030e9eb6ebc8.jpg


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That's cruising man. Great job.

I just started running seriously again after 2 years of not being consistent and I am really slow. I'm running 11 minute miles for 4 miles every other morning. I'm already seeing improvement as my first runs were 12 minute miles.

This thread has me excited. I'm hoping to run in the Bighorn Ultra next June.

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