Good workouts to get the lungs ready for high elevation

[hntr]

I have been running the last month to get the ol' lungs ready for higher elevation. Sadly, my shin splints are getting worse. I need some other workout ideas to keep my endurance up!

 

[Ridge Runner]

I really like intervals on the suckmaster, i mean stairmaster. Can add weighted pack to make it more challenging. Just completed 45 minutes and 200 floors 1 hr ago and the damn thing looked like I sprung a leak when I got done. For me much easier on the hips and knees then running. I try to do a 2 minutes hard 2 minutes easy for 6-8 sets at least a couple times a week with alternative workouts in between.

 

[justinspicher]

Just do burpees, they suck just like elevation gain does.

 

[DavePwns]

45lb to 90lb Sled pull for distance or go ruck steep terrain if available with a decently heavy pack

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

I did my first elk hunt last year and my training workouts were 3-4x a week backpack cardio 2-4 miles before work with a 40 -50 pound pack. In the evening 3-4x a week I would do a 30 minute kettlebell workout followed by a 30 minute yoga,stretching , core workout with lots of planks. I would also throw in 1-2x per week a 1/2 hour of mind numbing step ups onto a folding chair with my pack on. The kettlebells worked to strengthen my whole body while giving a HIIT workout.

This got me in as good of shape I could have hoped for a 53 year old with 6 herniated discs 3 in my neck, 3 in my lumbar, 3 knee surgeries from college football and a stent from when I had a widow maker heart attack at 43 just 7 months after winning the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Pan Ams. We climbed down and up 1000 foot vertical in less than 1/3 of mile 3 days with out issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Poser]

“Lungs” is probably just en expression in this case, but, just FYI, your lungs don’t actually get in shape, nor do they get “in shape” for altitude. That’s actually a cellular process in your bloodstream.
You do need an aerobic base for rucking, and running can help address that, however, once you hit a weight threshold (subordinate to your body weight and strength), usually around 25-30 lbs for most people, the energy pathway for climbing uphill with a pack is actually muscular endurance, of which running is fairly ineffective preparation for.

 

[Str8shooter]

It doesn't matter what kind of shape/strength I am in, strapping weight on my shoulders and getting used to sucking wind with that weight is the only thing that reduces the subjective suffering during season. Core and leg/calf strength are also critical. 6 weeks before season I start doing a couple miles several times per week with 65lbs.

 

[Tick]

Ridge Runner, post: 1748526, member: 3781"]
I really like intervals on the suckmaster, i mean stairmaster. Can add weighted pack to make it more challenging. Just completed 45 minutes and 200 floors 1 hr ago and the damn thing looked like I sprung a leak when I got done. For me much easier on the hips and knees then running. I try to do a 2 minutes hard 2 minutes easy for 6-8 sets at least a couple times a week with alternative workouts in between.[/QUOTE]

Agree. Stairmaster is the best I've found. Add a pack and it is a for sure ass kicker.

 

[bigcanyon]

Doing a few drills a week running backwards can really help with shin splints

 

[bigcanyon]

“Lungs” is probably just en expression in this case, but, just FYI, your lungs don’t actually get in shape, nor do they get “in shape” for altitude. That’s actually a cellular process in your bloodstream.
You do need an aerobic base for rucking, and running can help address that, however, once you hit a weight threshold (subordinate to your body weight and strength), usually around 25-30 lbs for most people, the energy pathway for climbing uphill with a pack is actually muscular endurance, of which running is fairly ineffective preparation for.

I agree with this to a point. The problem is most people don’t actually train when they run. If your truly training it means at some point you are going anaerobic and teaching the body how to use the oxygen it is taking in (v02max). Most people go out and run 3-4 miles and think that’s training. After a few weeks the body is pretty adapted to that. But doing say 10x200 meters with 200 meter jog in between and then a hard mile after the last 200 teaches your body to do something with that oxygen. I typically do two rounds of that workout.

 

[blacktail sniper]

Just do burpees, they suck just like elevation gain does.

good call. There is actually a spartan workout that is burpees pull ups and no more then 2 miles looks interesting burppes suck hate them but man have a buddy at work once a week bangs out 300 and another day 100 for time hes a machine and shredded also in his 30s the bastard

 

[justinspicher]

These posts always make me happy to live at elevation and have my hunting AO close.

 

[P Carter]

I agree with this to a point. The problem is most people don’t actually train when they run. If your truly training it means at some point you are going anaerobic and teaching the body how to use the oxygen it is taking in (v02max). Most people go out and run 3-4 miles and think that’s training. After a few weeks the body is pretty adapted to that. But doing say 10x200 meters with 200 meter jog in between and then a hard mile after the last 200 teaches your body to do something with that oxygen. I typically do two rounds of that workout.

Certainly, VO2 Max intervals is a type of training. But it is hardly the only type of training for which running can be used. Running for a period of time (would likely take more than 3-4 miles, more like an hour or so) at aerobic pace is training, and indeed valuable and arguably necessary training. Running at anaerobic pace is also training, but it's training a different energy system. Typically you would train VO2 Max on top of an aerobic base, and not too much, since: performance gains by increasing VO2 Max are minimal compared to those by increasing aerobic capacity; VO2 Max workouts are more stressful on the body, meaning that there is more pain for less gain; and VO2 Max is more influenced by genetics and is therefore not as trainable as aerobic base.

All that to say, you are probably correct that many or most don't actually train when they run. But I would disagree that all "true training" is anaerobic training. I would agree that anaerobic/VO2 Max training is important for performance at altitude, but in small doses and on top of an adequate aerobic base.

The 10x200 meters then a hard mile might be considered a Vo2 Max workout, but it's not one I've seen. I'd be curious where you pulled that from. (Genuinely curious, I have no dog in the fight and don't really care that you are doing it; good on you!)

The typical VO2 Max workout I've seen is several miles warmup followed by 10x400, or 5x800, with equal time rest between sets. The idea being to maximize time at VO2 Max. With shorter intervals, you are spending too much time in the interval getting your heartrate up to Vo2 Max zone and not enough time in the zone. With longer intervals or shorter rest you would get too fatigued to stay at VO2 Max heartrates for the equivalent period of time as with properly rested intervals. (Think about running at Vo2 Max all in one chunk, which wouldn't be as long as in multiple chunks with rest in between. You spend more total time in the zone with properly rested chunks.) Again, I don't have a dog in the fight, this is just what I've seen, and what I do, for V02 Max workouts.

 

[Poser]

Certainly, VO2 Max intervals is a type of training. But it is hardly the only type of training for which running can be used. Running for a period of time (would likely take more than 3-4 miles, more like an hour or so) at aerobic pace is training, and indeed valuable and arguably necessary training. Running at anaerobic pace is also training, but it's training a different energy system. Typically you would train VO2 Max on top of an aerobic base, and not too much, since: performance gains by increasing VO2 Max are minimal compared to those by increasing aerobic capacity; VO2 Max workouts are more stressful on the body, meaning that there is more pain for less gain; and VO2 Max is more influenced by genetics and is therefore not as trainable as aerobic base.

All that to say, you are probably correct that many or most don't actually train when they run. But I would disagree that all "true training" is anaerobic training. I would agree that anaerobic/VO2 Max training is important for performance at altitude, but in small doses and on top of an adequate aerobic base.

The 10x200 meters then a hard mile might be considered a Vo2 Max workout, but it's not one I've seen. I'd be curious where you pulled that from. (Genuinely curious, I have no dog in the fight and don't really care that you are doing it; good on you!)

The typical VO2 Max workout I've seen is several miles warmup followed by 10x400, or 5x800, with equal time rest between sets. The idea being to maximize time at VO2 Max. With shorter intervals, you are spending too much time in the interval getting your heartrate up to Vo2 Max zone and not enough time in the zone. With longer intervals or shorter rest you would get too fatigued to stay at VO2 Max heartrates for the equivalent period of time as with properly rested intervals. (Think about running at Vo2 Max all in one chunk, which wouldn't be as long as in multiple chunks with rest in between. You spend more total time in the zone with properly rested chunks.) Again, I don't have a dog in the fight, this is just what I've seen, and what I do, for V02 Max workouts.

I do agree that anaerobic threshold training is deceptively stressful on the body. You don’t perceive the stress the same way you might after running an ultra or a 5 rep max on deadlifts, but it does impede recovery in such a way that a person needs to know what they are doing before interjecting that type of training into a program. I’d dare say that hunting as a “sport” is generally dumb enough and slow enough that there’s the ROI on focusing on anaerobic threshold is not the same as it might be for someone who races SkiMo or “sky running” etc. most guys are going to benefit much more from spending that time getting stronger and increasing their muscular endurance. Hunting is slow and heavy.

 

[justinspicher]

As long as you have your flat bill hat and drink MTN Ops you’ll be fine.

 

[Capehunter1]

Try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, that will get your lungs going.

 

[sd375]

@P Carter @Poser
You guys both seem quite knowledgeable about fitness and training. In your experience, what types of training lends itself best to mountain hunting?

 

[bigcanyon]

Certainly, VO2 Max intervals is a type of training. But it is hardly the only type of training for which running can be used. Running for a period of time (would likely take more than 3-4 miles, more like an hour or so) at aerobic pace is training, and indeed valuable and arguably necessary training. Running at anaerobic pace is also training, but it's training a different energy system. Typically you would train VO2 Max on top of an aerobic base, and not too much, since: performance gains by increasing VO2 Max are minimal compared to those by increasing aerobic capacity; VO2 Max workouts are more stressful on the body, meaning that there is more pain for less gain; and VO2 Max is more influenced by genetics and is therefore not as trainable as aerobic base.

All that to say, you are probably correct that many or most don't actually train when they run. But I would disagree that all "true training" is anaerobic training. I would agree that anaerobic/VO2 Max training is important for performance at altitude, but in small doses and on top of an adequate aerobic base.

The 10x200 meters then a hard mile might be considered a Vo2 Max workout, but it's not one I've seen. I'd be curious where you pulled that from. (Genuinely curious, I have no dog in the fight and don't really care that you are doing it; good on you!)

The typical VO2 Max workout I've seen is several miles warmup followed by 10x400, or 5x800, with equal time rest between sets. The idea being to maximize time at VO2 Max. With shorter intervals, you are spending too much time in the interval getting your heartrate up to Vo2 Max zone and not enough time in the zone. With longer intervals or shorter rest you would get too fatigued to stay at VO2 Max heartrates for the equivalent period of time as with properly rested intervals. (Think about running at Vo2 Max all in one chunk, which wouldn't be as long as in multiple chunks with rest in between. You spend more total time in the zone with properly rested chunks.) Again, I don't have a dog in the fight, this is just what I've seen, and what I do, for V02 Max workouts.

I do a lot of different things for training. I did a 12 mile tempo on Monday at 5:45 mile pace and today was 14 miles easy at 7:10 pace. You make great points, I am just trying to say running is probably enough training for most People., but they do not do anything hard. The body adapts very quick to easy running. Easy running is amazing for teaching your body how to be more efficient, but it you want to have lungs you have to teach your body how to go anaerobic as well.

 

[bigcanyon]

Certainly, VO2 Max intervals is a type of training. But it is hardly the only type of training for which running can be used. Running for a period of time (would likely take more than 3-4 miles, more like an hour or so) at aerobic pace is training, and indeed valuable and arguably necessary training. Running at anaerobic pace is also training, but it's training a different energy system. Typically you would train VO2 Max on top of an aerobic base, and not too much, since: performance gains by increasing VO2 Max are minimal compared to those by increasing aerobic capacity; VO2 Max workouts are more stressful on the body, meaning that there is more pain for less gain; and VO2 Max is more influenced by genetics and is therefore not as trainable as aerobic base.

All that to say, you are probably correct that many or most don't actually train when they run. But I would disagree that all "true training" is anaerobic training. I would agree that anaerobic/VO2 Max training is important for performance at altitude, but in small doses and on top of an adequate aerobic base.

The 10x200 meters then a hard mile might be considered a Vo2 Max workout, but it's not one I've seen. I'd be curious where you pulled that from. (Genuinely curious, I have no dog in the fight and don't really care that you are doing it; good on you!)

The typical VO2 Max workout I've seen is several miles warmup followed by 10x400, or 5x800, with equal time rest between sets. The idea being to maximize time at VO2 Max. With shorter intervals, you are spending too much time in the interval getting your heartrate up to Vo2 Max zone and not enough time in the zone. With longer intervals or shorter rest you would get too fatigued to stay at VO2 Max heartrates for the equivalent period of time as with properly rested intervals. (Think about running at Vo2 Max all in one chunk, which wouldn't be as long as in multiple chunks with rest in between. You spend more total time in the zone with properly rested chunks.) Again, I don't have a dog in the fight, this is just what I've seen, and what I do, for V02 Max workouts.

I don’t want to sound like Cameron Hanes either here. I do not believe most people need to run more than 30 to 40 miles a week to be in very good shape with proper training. One thing that really irritates me is when people see someone wearing a certain shoe, so they go and buy it to run in and have no idea wether the pronate or are a neutral runner and then they wonder why their knees hurt or get an injury due to the wrong shoes. I wish there were more informative Instagram runners

 

[P Carter]

I do a lot of different things for training. I did a 12 mile tempo on Monday at 5:45 mile pace and today was 14 miles easy at 7:10 pace. You make great points, I am just trying to say running is probably enough training for most People., but they do not do anything hard. The body adapts very quick to easy running. Easy running is amazing for teaching your body how to be more efficient, but it you want to have lungs you have to teach your body how to go anaerobic as well.

Ha! You are a real runner! With those distances and paces, I can understand how the workout you posted would be V02 Max. For me, I'd be way too fatigued to stay in that zone for a mile after the 10x200. I'm with you that anaerobic work is a very good addition that most folks don't do. But non-runners also go the opposite way, jumping right into hard intervals without putting in the time for a base. For what it's worth, coincedentally, I've been right in that 30-40 mile per week zone for the past few years because I've been focused on hunting rather than running events. And slow, super slow compared to your pace. For many or most on the board, that seems to be a lot of running, but in the running world that is low mileage. Funny how perspectives change depending on your area of interest.