GSP and collar issues

[blake_mhoona]

i've got a 2.5 y/o male GSP and he has a really good nose. we don't have wild birds here so most of our bird work is either in the training field or in NSTRA trials all with planted quail/chukar. the issue i'm running into is that whenever the e-collar is on he's the perfect dog. holds point forever, no flagging, responds immediately to all commands. however when we run trials where no e-collars are allowed he breaks point and tries to flush the bird about every 1 in 3 birds. he also flags until i get up there to flush the bird (provided he held point).

I take him home and train him in the field and try to simulate a trial atmosphere with other dogs and holding blinds. and with the collar on he's back to being the perfect dog. or i arrive early or late to a trial and go to clean the field with him with the collar on and he's the perfect dog. its just when the collar comes off that he thinks he's a flusher instead of a pointer. any suggestions on how to outsmart the dog?

i've thought about running him no collar and bird launchers for awhile and launching the birds as soon as he's too close or starts creeping. my only concern with that is him chasing the bird down and still catching it and doing the opposite of creating a teaching moment. my other concern with that method is in my previous experience he's never tried to creep in on a launcher. it's only when he can see the bird. so i may never get a teaching moment out of that exercise. and i don't think i can trust our pen raised quail to be planted loosely and take off before he runs in and grabs them if he's running with no collar.

any thoughts?

our last trial i was able to outsmart him by taking the receiver off the e-collar and strapping that on him instead of his normal collar. but that's a short term fix i'm sure.

we've got a long break before our next trial so i should be able to get a lot of bird work in before we run again. before our last trial i was ready to just stop running trials and find a new trial dog. but that happened to be the run where we actually did good and restored a little confidence in him.

 

[KurtR]

I would talk to a pro trainer and see how they would fix the collar wise problem. I would guess it would involve check cord and heeling stick for corrections

 

[rideold]

Sounds to me like he hasn't fully learned the commands and discipline. It could be age. That 2 year stage is tough (or at least it was with my GSP). You might try going back to the check cord and shoot for the 80/20 rule of discipline vs praise. I tend to think more on the 1 correction to every 5 praise because that's easier for me to remember. That said, my dog (4.5 years old) is not perfect so it's all what your goal is. I struggled really hard early in my training days to remember that the collar is used to enforce known commands rather than teach new ones.

 

[blake_mhoona]

i have heard someone say that the "terrible 2's" were the same for dogs as it was for kids. i didn't know if it was a joke or them being serious. i'm hoping its just a phase.

when we do yard work i usually use no collar and leave the check cord on him he'll hold it all day and i'll throw hats or place retriever dummies on the ground in front of him and he'll keep it held. i started a timer last night and he held it for 4 minutes before i released him and threw him a retriever dummy for the positive aspect. he goes crazy for retrieving.

 

[slvrslngr]

He’s basically a teenager, so have patience, there’s plenty of time for him to come around. I’d keep working him without the collar and just be patient. Sounds like he’s a good dog, he’ll mature and become a great dog. Did I mention you need to be patient?

 

[jmez]

Can you whoa him without a collar and get an immediate response under all circumstances?

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[Superdoo]

How is he on the woah table?

 

[blake_mhoona]

Can you whoa him without a collar and get an immediate response under all circumstances?

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

In every instance, it’s an immediate response. Collar, no collar, yard, field, etc. just apparently not when he’s 6 feet from the bird and I’m kicking brush not to his liking. Lol. At one trial his snap lead came off his tie out post. I didn’t notice till I saw him making a bee line to the field. I yelled for the nearest person to whoa him and he stopped on a dime till I got there and put a leash on him.

How is he on the woah table?

I personally don’t have a table but the guy that helped train him uses a barrel. He just came back from him a month ago for a little tune up and they went back to the barrel before going back in the field. Said he did great. I had him work on backing a little more and holding point on walking birds. He hates to back but does it. And is perfect on walking birds with a collar on. I’m going to his place tomorrow and I’m gonna see about walking birds with no collar but a check cord in a controlled situation.

 

[Superdoo]

Try him on a woah table and a pigeon on a string.
Start with a wing tied pigeon and toss it in front of him.
Progress though “flushing” the bird on a string from the front and side an behind.

Set him up for failure on the table to show where you need more work.

I agree with the others that his age is very likely the culprit here, but the above drills will pay dividends.

 

[jmez]

First off, 2 is pretty young to have a broke dog.

I would go back to some basics and reinforce the whoa command. You need to be able to stop him 6 feet from a bird collar or not. I don't use the table but they are effective.

Once you have that, it is birds and repetition. Train without the collar. Don't turn loose without a 50 foot check cord. Start with check cord in hand and work up. He moves on a bird stop him with the cord and tell him whoah. Got directly to him pick him up put him back where he was and tell him whoah. Style him up a little then go on with a flushing sequence. If he move during any of this reapeat.

If he continues moving catwalking, trying to catch the bird progress in the discipline. Pick him up by skin of neck and back, give a firm single shake while telling him whoa. You can progress that to 3 but usually don't need to.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[jmez]

I would also use pigeons to start. Dog is much less likely to catch them.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[Salmonchaser]

Terrible twos, sounds like you’re going to have a great dog. I was ready to give up on Molly when she was two. Went to Alaska guiding for the summer knowing I wouldn’t work her much while there. Home in September, out to the ranch to guide some guys from Leupold. She was flawless, damn good anyway. Jmez has a good outline, focus on those basics and look for that switch to get flipped.

 

[Forks]

He's smart and knows the pen raised/trail game and has a big hard on for it. Can't say I blame him......just like life when you start to figure things out and have confidence. Time to change the game.

 

[RC305]

Similar issues with collar smart dog.