Hammer bullets, copper frags in meat?

[SDHNTR]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around one element of the Hammer's design -- the fact that the petals are designed to break off. I can certainly see how that would aid in terminal effect, but what about those fragments ending up in your meat? Compare it to lead. Yes a lead bullet will fragment (lets not start a debate here please!) and you could ingest that lead. But the fragments are so small and lead is softer, so other than the theoretical potential for blood absorption (again, no debates here), any bigger pieces would likely just pass right through you harmlessly.

Now contrast that with copper from Hammers. I've seen the ballistic gel test vids and those copper pieces are not small. They also seem to travel several inches and can spread off in different directions from the bullet's core. Seems like there would be a decent chance that these fragments could wind up in your meat, several inches from bullet impact. Now what if you ingest these pieces of copper? That sure doesn't seem good in your gut!

Not an issue? Are these fragments easy to identify with bloodshot meat around them so you can cut or pick them out? Can someone increase my comfort level that this is not an issue? With factual info or logic? I did reach out to Steve with this question and he kindly responded saying he's seen fragments while processing meat, but never had any end up in packaged meat. That's just one man too (arguably with a bias, though his response did seem 100% honest) and it still seems like there's a chance to get pieces in your meat if your butcher isn't careful. And I don't know if I've ever seen a careful butcher! Steve did say (and I appreciate his honesty) that the pieces can spread from the shot site, which worried me, but didn't seem to concern him. I think I'm looking to broaden that sample before I gain enough comfort with them. Help me out here. I'm sure I'm overthinking it, but I'd like concrete reasoning as to why it's nothing to worry about, if it's not. Thoughts?

 

[brn2hnt]

As a waterfowl hunter (steel shot) I would say you’re going to have a hard time not biting down on it IF a piece did make it past butchering. I would be more worried about chipping a tooth than ingestion.


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[OXN939]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around one element of the Hammer's design -- the fact that the petals are designed to break off. I can certainly see how that would aid in terminal effect, but what about those fragments ending up in your meat? Compare it to lead. Yes a lead bullet will fragment (lets not start a debate here please!) and you could ingest that lead. But the fragments are so small and lead is softer, so other than the theoretical potential for blood absorption (again, no debates here), any bigger pieces would likely just pass right through you harmlessly.

Now contrast that with copper from Hammers. I've seen the ballistic gel test vids and those copper pieces are not small. They also seem to travel several inches and can spread off in different directions from the bullet's core. Seems like there would be a decent chance that these fragments could wind up in your meat, several inches from bullet impact. Now what if you ingest these pieces of copper? That sure doesn't seem good in your gut!

Not an issue? Are these fragments easy to identify with bloodshot meat around them so you can cut or pick them out? Can someone increase my comfort level that this is not an issue? With factual info or logic? I did reach out to Steve with this question and he kindly responded saying he's seen fragments while processing meat, but never had any end up in packaged meat. That's just one man too (arguably with a bias, though his response did seem 100% honest) and it still seems like there's a chance to get pieces in your meat if your butcher isn't careful. And I don't know if I've ever seen a careful butcher! Steve did say (and I appreciate his honesty) that the pieces can spread from the shot site, which worried me, but didn't seem to concern him. I think I'm looking to broaden that sample before I gain enough comfort with them. Help me out here. I'm sure I'm overthinking it, but I'd like concrete reasoning as to why it's nothing to worry about, if it's not. Thoughts?

The petals from Hammers make large enough wound channels that they would be hard to miss while butchering. Lead also tends to fragment into hundreds or thousands of microfragments rather than a few large petals. More importantly, the comparison here is between having a substance that is totally benign versus one that is a pretty toxic carcinogen in your food. In my view, it is no question which one is a greater risk.

 

[MattB]

Yeah, not an issue. If you've ever eaten a pheasant shot with lead shot, you've risked worse.

 

[Stalker69]

Run a metal detector over your meat. That’s we had to do with blades that brake off ram cat broad heads. And yea braking a tooth I would think is the worst thing with bullet pieces. Now we didn’t want to swallow pieces of broad head blades. I have swallowed a fair share of lead shot while eating birds, even a few pellets and bbs while I held them in my mouth for my pellet rifles when I was younger.

 

[SDHNTR]

The petals from Hammers make large enough wound channels that they would be hard to miss while butchering. Lead also tends to fragment into hundreds or thousands of microfragments rather than a few large petals. More importantly, the comparison here is between having a substance that is totally benign versus one that is a pretty toxic carcinogen in your food. In my view, it is no question which one is a greater risk.

Excellent! This is the exact kind of factual experience and description I was looking for! So you can actually see the individual channels of the fragments, and bloodshot meat around them? So you know what to avoid? That’s helpful. I didn’t know if the fragments were actually big enough to do this. As long as you can visually see what to avoid, I can see how this would greatly minimize the risk. Thanks for that feedback.

 

[SDHNTR]

And FWIW I realize copper is harmless with regard to toxicity. We drink our water out of it every day. That’s not what I’m worried about. It’s the effect of a potentially large enough and jagged/sharp enough chunk of metal passing thru your GI tract.

 

[OXN939]

Excellent! This is the exact kind of factual experience and description I was looking for! So you can actually see the individual channels of the fragments, and bloodshot meat around them? So you know what to avoid? That’s helpful. I didn’t know if the fragments were actually big enough to do this. As long as you can visually see what to avoid, I can see how this would greatly minimize the risk. Thanks for that feedback.

Visual illustration of what I'm talking about. As long as you're slightly observant when processing your meat, you'll have no issues.

Even if you did process your game in the dark, the front shoulders where a potential fragment would be end up as ground for most people anyway, so hopefully you would catch it in tha process. And, even if all of those things failed somehow, a small piece of copper is objectively much less of a concern than consuming a bunch of lead dust.

 

[SDHNTR]

Visual illustration of what I'm talking about. As long as you're slightly observant when processing your meat, you'll have no issues.

Even if you did process your game in the dark, the front shoulders where a potential fragment would be end up as ground for most people anyway, so hopefully you would catch it in tha process. And, even if all of those things failed somehow, a small piece of copper is objectively much less of a concern than consuming a bunch of lead dust.

View attachment 196237

That’s great. Informative pic. Just curious, what cartridge was that from and what did it hit at what range? Do they always come apart with pieces that big?

 

[OXN939]

That’s great. Informative pic. Just curious, what cartridge was that from and what did it hit at what range? Do they always come apart with pieces that big?

Just file photos of a Hammer and a lead cup-and-core, so I couldn't say for sure. From my testing, Hornady GMX projectiles fragment the least (read: I have never seen one lose any measurable amount of weight other than the polymer tip) of any hunting bullet out there. Barnes TTSX a close second.

 

[MeatBuck]

Masticate your meat appropriately and I don’t think you will ever accidentally swallow one of them petals.
There’s a little saying something like “it’s already dead, don’t eat it like it’s trying to get away”.

Now that you know what to look for I’d say you can ease your mind some.

 

[MattB]

And FWIW I realize copper is harmless with regard to toxicity. We drink our water out of it every day. That’s not what I’m worried about. It’s the effect of a potentially large enough and jagged/sharp enough chunk of metal passing thru your GI tract.

I would think you would spit the petal out after biting down on it, just like you would with bird shot.

 

[Newtosavage]

Visual illustration of what I'm talking about. As long as you're slightly observant when processing your meat, you'll have no issues.

Even if you did process your game in the dark, the front shoulders where a potential fragment would be end up as ground for most people anyway, so hopefully you would catch it in tha process. And, even if all of those things failed somehow, a small piece of copper is objectively much less of a concern than consuming a bunch of lead dust.

View attachment 196237

Good illustration, but you bring up a good point too - about finding copper petals in the grinder. I bone out all my meat and then take it to the local butcher to grind and package, and make sausage for me. If a copper petal makes it into his grinder, that could be the last time he accepts meat from me. And I really don't want to have to buy him another commercial meat grinder...

I never really thought about that before. My sample pack of Hammers is on my workbench as I type this. Hmmm.

 

[TomJoad]

Copper is also very soft, especially when compared to hardened steel grinding plates. Not as soft as lead but one hell of a lot softer than steel shot. I doubt your butcher would ever know he passed a piece through his grinder, steel cuts copper like butter. As for your GI, those intestines are amazingly tough as well. You’d likely pass that copper just fine. Now a Broadhead fragment in the GI tract or the butchers grinder, totally different story!

 

[Hnttillmt]

Some food for thought. Other than meningitis,the sickest I have ever been was from ingesting several lead pellets from a pheasant. The pellets settled into the bottom of my stomach and didn’t pass for about 4 days. I was going through a roll of toilet paper a day. Had no idea what was going on until the day I started feeling better I noticed the pellets settled into the bottom of the toilet where they stayed for another few days before finally disappearing. I shoot barnes now almost exclusively!

 

[Stalker69]

If your worried about it a Metal detector will tell you if there’s metal in the meat.Weather its fresh or if its warped and frozen. Beeps , throw it out or look for the piece of metal.

 

[100percent]

Wow, I wish I had time to worry of such... first world problems for sure!!!

 

[Spoke'n'fly]

The petals are much larger than any shotgun shot and very easy to identify. I know from personal experience. Plus the on game performance paired with the ease of load development make Hammers one of the best bullets on the market. It’s a no brainer in my book.


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[tdot]

From the 7 animals I've shot with Hammer's, the petals have exited on 6 of them. That includes 3 black bear. The petal exits are obvious, holes in the hide, within a few inches of the main exit wound. The wound channel from the petals is also quite obvious and easy to follow. The only petals I have found were from a mule deer that was shot in the chest and 3 of the 4 petals were found against the broken back femur; the 4th petal exited. I assume the femur was broken by the main bullet shank, which also exited. Considering the damage that was done to that deer and unfortunate shot placement (later figured out the scope was pooched) I lost maybe a couple pounds of the back ham, and that mostly due to the broken femur.

I have zero concern with petals from the hammers. If I didn't see the exit wounds, they are easy to trace.