Heavy Arrow Build-Did I Mess Up?

mww982

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Oct 30, 2020
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About to pull the trigger on a Mathews V3-31. Draw length 28 and will be pulling about 65 lbs. My previous bow was a Triax and I was shooting Easton Hexx 330's cut to 27.25", which put me right around 420 grains. With the new bow, I am wanting to be 550+ grains and 16%+ FOC.

In preparation I built Easton Axis Match Grade 300 spine. Cut them to 26.75", installed Ethic Archery 100 grain half-outs and planned on shooting a 125 grain head. The added length of the insert brought me back to my normal arrow length. When I ran the numbers through Archers Advantage and OT2, it seemed to be a pretty good setup according the their charts. Not AA is showing them to bee too stiff. OT2 is showing to be on the stiff side of optimal. Did I mess up or should I try out the arrows before starting over?

I just got turned on to Ranch Fairy and thinking I may need to go to a 28" to 29" arrow (all measurements given thus far are shafts only). Running the numbers again on AA and OT2 in the Axis 300's at 28" with 225 grains up front would put me at about 560 grains and 17% FOC. Then I started looking at the Hexx's again.

AA and OT2 are all over the place with the spine and not sure if I should go 330's or 260's. I used 275 grains upfront for the Hexx's. The 330's show to be optimal in AA and weak on OT2. The 260's show to be stiff on AA and on the borderline stiff on OT2. Both put me at around 550 grains + and over 20% FOC, which I would like. If I were to go with the Hexx's should I start with the 260's and test them at different weights or stick with Axis in the 300's and test those out first. Personally, I prefer the 6mm shaft over the 5mm but really don't have a reason why.

Pictures attached of the results from both programs and sorry for being so long winded. Current Arrow.png Current-AA.png Axis-28-300.png Axis-28-AA.png Hexx-330-OT2.png Hexx-330-AA.png Hexx-260-28.jpg Hexx-AA.png
 

Jbxl20

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Dec 29, 2020
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Shoot the 300’s. I can’t see 300’s being too stiff with that much weight up front.
 

Dennis

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May 18, 2014
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It's a journey and my goals were the same as yours. I started off last winter with a new V3 31" at 65 lbs and the wish to increase my lethality based on some experiences with my previous set up and knowledge of my old set ups. I have used AA in the past and still do, but found that testing and building my own set up based on actual testing was both rewarding and challenging.

I started off shooting bare shafts with 350, 300 and 250 spines with a field tip test kit from 100 to 300 grains. My goal was perfect arrow flight at 7 yards and I had a few additional requirements. First was an arrow weight at or greater than 550 grains and as much structural integrity as I could get followed by striving to increase my FOC to 16% or as much as possible. Based on my shooting ability and my hunting experiences I decided that if I could shoot out to 60 yards I was good with whatever met those requirements. I knew that if I increased weight then trajectory would decrease, but 60 yards was good enough for me in hunting situations. I have shot the setup out to 80 plus yards on targets and the arrows still fly well. Once I found what shot best in my bow that met my requirements with me shooting I started shooting a couple different bare shaft contenders and nock tuning through paper and at distances looking at bare shaft groups. I found my bow would shoot several setups well and built a few arrows with each set up to shoot and test structural integrity in targets and stump shooting last summer. That remove one shaft pretty quickly as it was to brittle. Once I decided on my set up I found that the "Top Hat" on my Mathews bow needed adjustment to bring my set up into alignment with my sights. I ended up with an arrow weight of 624 grains 24% FOC and one elk that I was more than happy with the results. I also decided to shoot and test broadheads this year and in the end found the quality of the steel and sharpness of the broadhead does make a difference. Good luck!
 

5MilesBack

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Shoot the 300’s. I can’t see 300’s being too stiff with that much weight up front.
With a 26.75" arrow at only 28" draw and 65lbs, I can totally see being too stiff, even with 225gr up front. But what does "too stiff" mean (rhetorical), and how does that affect things?

OP.......shoot the arrows, tune your bow to them, and see how they do. They either work for what you're looking for, or they don't. I've never used a software program for building arrows and have yet to build a set that I can't tune the bow to or won't work. It just depends on what your goals are.
 

arrowsender

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Apr 3, 2019
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Illinois
What's your goal with this build? What's will you be hunting with it, what's the hunting situation (tree stand whitetails/ antelope on the plains/ elk in thick brush)? And what is your actual effective shooting range for the situation your planning to hunt?
 

Samdemarais

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Jul 27, 2017
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Ideally you would start with your arrows too weak and tune them in. So ya I would have cut them long and tuned from there. To rectify your mistakes you can probably turn the bow up a few cranks to 67-70 lbs and see if it works.
 

gelton

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May 15, 2013
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What arrowsender asked is important. I shoot the same bow V3 31" @ 70# with a 28.5" draw.

Your proposed setup will be fine in a tree stand but you might want to reconsider if hunting out west. I am guessing your true speed would be closer to 240fps than the 250fps that they show, maybe even less.

I am a firm believer that you want to be between 270-280 fps for some of the longer shots you encounter hunting elk, antelope, or mule deer which would put your TAW around 440 grains.

Also, the Axis isn't a good arrow to start chasing FOC with. I am building some Victory RIP TKO's (if they ever get back in stock) and with my standard 175 grains upfront I will end up with a 455-grain arrow with 15.5% FOC that will shoot ~280fps, which is what I think is about perfect for an all-around arrow.

If I were just tree stand hunting at known distances, then I would consider going heavier.
 
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Mighty Mouse

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Spine software (or charts) just give you an approximate starting point, not a set-in-stone requirement. Shoot what you built and see what happens. If the arrows tune well (i.e., broadheads group with field points), their spine is functionally "optimal" regardless of what the software says. I bet your 300's will be fine.
 

Beendare

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Modern compounds shoot stiff arrows just fine…in fact its desirable.

FYI,
You are focused on factors many experienced guys don’t even think about. Its better to focus your time on proper form, a tuned bow and perfect BH arrow flight.

You dont need a 600g arrow to get good penetration. The heavier arrow will help with penetration and give you a quieter bow and a good idea if you are using a big cut inefficient BH …..but there is no free lunch with heavy as it hurts your trajectory.
.
 
OP
M

mww982

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Oct 30, 2020
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Fort Worth, TX
What's your goal with this build? What's will you be hunting with it, what's the hunting situation (tree stand whitetails/ antelope on the plains/ elk in thick brush)? And what is your actual effective shooting range for the situation your planning to hunt?

Whitetail and pigs from a blind or tree. Max range no more than 40, maybe pushing 50.

If I was going out west I’d definitely go lighter.


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texans42

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Apr 1, 2013
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While I'm shooting a different bow(but 28” draw) I shoot exact same arrow set up (but four fetch) from 65-70lb. On computer I'm slightly stiff at 65, slightly weak at 70. Yet paper and arrow flight are fine.
 
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OP
M

mww982

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Fort Worth, TX
As soon as I started reading your post, I knew you snorted to much fairy dust,

I like arrow with 15% FOC or greater. My previous set up were Easton Hexx’s, 27.25”, 75 grain brass inserts and 100/125 grain broadheads. Which put me right around 430-440 grains. Wanted to get over 500 grains with this build.

Wasn’t planning on going through the RF process. Was going tune my bow to get the arrow flying right, not just keep adding or taking away weight to get it to fly right.


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arrowsender

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Apr 3, 2019
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Illinois
As mighty mouse said computer program is a good starting point, not an absolute. But there's multiple ways to manipulate your arrow.

Being able to test multiple shafts is best but expensive. Starting with the shaft long and cutting it down 1/4" at a time, till you find at what length tunes best.

If you don't have access to an arrow saw, you can manipulate the arrow by changing component weights. Broadhead/field points. Inserts and weights can be changed but requires hot metal glue (if hot metal glue is done incorrectly it'll bust the carbon shaft). Adding weight to the rear (wraps/heavier nock/larger or more fletching) will stiffen the shaft but reduce FOC, opposite will weaken it and increase FOC. Adjusting your draw weight will also weaken or stiffen your arrow to assist in tuning.

It's time consuming but fun if you're into it.
 
OP
M

mww982

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Oct 30, 2020
Messages
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Location
Fort Worth, TX
While I'm shooting a different bow(but 28” draw) I shoot exact same arrow set up (but four fetch) from 65-70lb. On computer I'm slightly stiff at 65, slightly weak at 70. Yet paper and arrow flight are fine.

What bow are you shooting and what kind of speed?
 

Beendare

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I like arrow with 15% FOC or greater. My previous set up were Easton Hexx’s, 27.25”, 75 grain brass inserts and 100/125 grain broadheads. Which put me right around 430-440 grains. Wanted to get over 500 grains with this build.

Wasn’t planning on going through the RF process. Was going tune my bow to get the arrow flying right, not just keep adding or taking away weight to get it to fly right.
Yes sir…good strategy. Your bow will be a little quieter but Someone tells you they are getting much better arrow performance from another 50 grains of arrow weight then they had poor arrow flight with the lighter Arrow.

Shorter hunting shots, under say 40yds- then the extra weight helps without a big affect on trajectory. Extra weight helps inefficient BHs perform better. Most guys are golden between 450-550g. If all a guy takes is close 20-30y shots, then a 550g arrow is a good option.
.
 

TheViking

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Mar 2, 2019
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Colorado
Yes sir…good strategy. Your bow will be a little quieter but Someone tells you they are getting much better arrow performance from another 50 grains of arrow weight then they had poor arrow flight with the lighter Arrow.

Shorter hunting shots, under say 40yds- then the extra weight helps without a big affect on trajectory. Extra weight helps inefficient BHs perform better. Most guys are golden between 450-550g. If all a guy takes is close 20-30y shots, then a 550g arrow is a good option.
.

This.

Don’t get too carried away. I like 15% FOC and above, no less than 500 grains. If I have a dedicated elk setup, I’ll shoot 550+, but for an overall setup (elk, deer, antelope) I’ll run closer to 500 to still have good trajectory.

Current setup -

Sirius Orion 250 shaft - 28”
Ethics Outsert - 100g total + 125g head
Wrap + 3 fletch
515 grains - 18% FOC

Hits like a hammer, still shoots pretty flat

30” draw length helps
 

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