Hold on to your GMU 23/26A Shorts boys

[LongWayAround]

While it was technically a federal closure, it was disappointing to see the Alaska Fish and Game representative vote in favor of the closure at the board meeting, especially after they were so adamantly against it. In my opinion, they should have stood behind the arguments they have been making over the last year and half.

Ben Mulligan (?) is/was the Alaska fish and game representative who spoke at the meetings repeatedly stating the state's opposition.

 

[VenaticOppidan]

I remember hearing him speak against during testimony, for some reason i thought he voted for when it came time. I was on most of the calls/hearings, get sidetracked sometimes given how poorly they are ran and old Charlie not knowing that the hell is going on


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[FSUhunter1010]

Those that recieved their letter from Golden Eagle yesterday, what are your plans now?Will this be resolved by 2023? Any august hunters having golden eagle take them up to Unit 26?

 

[CGSwimmer25]

I'm not upset. I said if AK got rid of some of their idiotic requirements, they would have more support.

I see it more and more. Residents of (insert state) wanting help over and over from non res yet discriminating more and more. I wonder how that is working for them? Oh look AK residents just lost access to hunting caribou on fed land in some areas. I guess it's not working that well?

If AK stays on the same track, I wonder if they will have more or less non res support when the residents come asking for help again? Anyway like I said good luck during the next round of closures.

Alaska residents lost access to Caribou on fed land because of all the non-residents flooding into that area and posting about it on public forums to invite other non-residents to continue the crowding. Alaska’s “idiotic” requirements are in place to prevent people like you from destroying hunting up here. Stay in your state and enjoy the hunting opportunities you have there, problem solved.


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[ddavis_1313]

Alaska residents lost access to Caribou on fed land because of all the non-residents flooding into that area and posting about it on public forums to invite other non-residents to continue the crowding. Alaska’s “idiotic” requirements are in place to prevent people like you from destroying hunting up here. Stay in your state and enjoy the hunting opportunities you have there, problem solved.


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Lolololololololololololol. I bet you’re the same type of guy that gets mad if someone hunts “your” spot on public. Heaven forbid someone else kill “your” deer too. Same goes to whoever liked your comment as well. What a divisive response in regards to something that should belong to us all and that we should all cherish.


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[z987k]

Alaska residents lost access to Caribou on fed land because of all the non-residents flooding into that area and posting about it on public forums to invite other non-residents to continue the crowding. Alaska’s “idiotic” requirements are in place to prevent people like you from destroying hunting up here. Stay in your state and enjoy the hunting opportunities you have there, problem solved.


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That could pretty easily be changed from out of state to out of area(kotz, etc) and you have what we're discussing here.

 

[kwackkillncrew]

i dont think it is anyones (people who are non local to the kotz area) fault that this has happened. I do not think enough animals are takin from non local people to make a difference in a herd that has that many animals. If non resident hunters are that pissed off at the state (who was against this closure) then dont come up here and hunt. Residents would have no problem getting on some of these flights to get out hunting.

also can you tell me some of these idiotic requirements the state has for hunting?

 

[AKDoc]

As LB noted in his thread title ("Federal Proposals...") this specific action is entirely Federal, not an action of the state of Alaska.

Speaking just for myself, these various proposals can get truly complicated at times with lots of moving parts to decipher and keep clear in one's head. I'll also personally share as a thirty-five year active outdoor Alaskan (and Federal taxpayer like everyone here) that the deciphering process and needed participation over the years have been typically frustrating, too often disappointing, and sometimes exhausting for me...this particular action is just one example. That said, I realize that there are many different perspectives other than mine.

Adding to the complexity...

• ROUGHLY 86% of the land in Alaska is publicly owned...60% of Alaska (222.7 million acres) is Federally owned, thus Federal governmental entities have "over-sight" (lots of "yeah, but" to that statement) . ROUGHLY 26% of Alaska is state owned.
• ROUGHLY 13% of Alaska is privately owned by various Native Corporations.

I sincerely wish the best for everyone here, and I hope that your Alaska dream hunts do happen. I'd also like to do a caribou hunt in that area, but I'm under the same restrictions as a nonresident.

 

[CGSwimmer25]

Lolololololololololololol. I bet you’re the same type of guy that gets mad if someone hunts “your” spot on public. Heaven forbid someone else kill “your” deer too. Same goes to whoever liked your comment as well. What a divisive response in regards to something that should belong to us all and that we should all cherish.


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What “public”? This is Alaska, not Texas


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[Catag94]

Those that recieved their letter from Golden Eagle yesterday, what are your plans now?Will this be resolved by 2023? Any august hunters having golden eagle take them up to Unit 26?

From what I understand from GEO, they seldom take folks to 26, even in August. But, I’d love to hear others answer.


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[ppumil]

I have lived in many states and consider myself an American first honestly and a Louisiana boy after. I understand the frustration with me coming to YOUR state but realize your own states are the ones who want that. If the resource is managed correctly there should not be any issues with it either and we can all achieve the goal of access to public resources.
Here we have federal management in direct conflict with state basically. The FEDS owe the state of Alaska a ton of land and it is tied up in the politics basically. We as hunters, residents, and Americans need to work together to assure access to public land (whether you define it as State or Federal should not matter for Americans). We should all be stuarts of the land, respect the game we want to hunt, and preserve our right to access.
The bottom line is we are having our right jeopardized. It can be under whatever guise you think but the goal is the same. Taking your right away.
If we fight amongst ourselves we are supporting their cause in achieving this goal. We are a small player in a big game here and if we are not united then we will lose.

 

[ddavis_1313]

I have lived in many states and consider myself an American first honestly and a Louisiana boy after. I understand the frustration with me coming to YOUR state but realize your own states are the ones who want that. If the resource is managed correctly there should not be any issues with it either and we can all achieve the goal of access to public resources.
Here we have federal management in direct conflict with state basically. The FEDS owe the state of Alaska a ton of land and it is tied up in the politics basically. We as hunters, residents, and Americans need to work together to assure access to public land (whether you define it as State or Federal should not matter for Americans). We should all be stuarts of the land, respect the game we want to hunt, and preserve our right to access.
The bottom line is we are having our right jeopardized. It can be under whatever guise you think but the goal is the same. Taking your right away.
If we fight amongst ourselves we are supporting their cause in achieving this goal. We are a small player in a big game here and if we are not united then we will lose.

This guy gets it. Great post


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[z987k]

As LB noted in his thread title ("Federal Proposals...") this specific action is entirely Federal, not an action of the state of Alaska.

Speaking just for myself, these various proposals can get truly complicated at times with lots of moving parts to decipher and keep clear in one's head. I'll also personally share as a thirty-five year active outdoor Alaskan (and Federal taxpayer like everyone here) that the deciphering process and needed participation over the years have been typically frustrating, too often disappointing, and sometimes exhausting for me...this particular action is just one example. That said, I realize that there are many different perspectives other than mine.

Adding to the complexity...

• ROUGHLY 86% of the land in Alaska is publicly owned...60% of Alaska (222.7 million acres) is Federally owned, thus Federal governmental entities have "over-sight" (lots of "yeah, but" to that statement) . ROUGHLY 26% of Alaska is state owned.
• ROUGHLY 13% of Alaska is privately owned by various Native Corporations.

I sincerely wish the best for everyone here, and I hope that your Alaska dream hunts do happen. I'd also like to do a caribou hunt in that area, but I'm under the same restrictions as a nonresident.

We need to take that 60% number and make it really close to 0. They can keep the parks, forests, preserves and monuments. Basically the BLM needs to go, and all of it's land transferred to the state.
Then I want NOAA to cede the federal waters to AFDG control. Disband the NPFMC... and if I'm really dreaming we'd put the lot of NPFMC in prison for what they've done.

 

[eamyrick]

Wonder if this frees up any guides for 2023 for some good Grizz deals?

 

[CGSwimmer25]

Speaking for myself, this has nothing to do with me not wanting people to come up and experience caribou hunting. There are plenty of caribou up here and it would be awesome for everyone to get up here once in their lives. The problem is that Kotzebue is all non-residents talk about on this public forum and treat it like it’s the only place in Alaska to hunt Caribou.

Next, hordes of hunters travel through a village to get flown out into their hunting area. This village is where people live their routine, day after day. Then August/ September rolls around and the airport is packed day after day with guys in their camo.

Next, resident hunters are priced out of hunts because the air transporters quadruple their prices because “non-residents” are willing to pay. This quote came straight from the horses mouth.

Next comes the crowding. You guys from the L48 are used to running into other hunters in the field. It’s normal down there. One of the perks of Alaska is it’s vastness. You should be able to hunt without ever seeing another human. You used to be able to float any of rivers or tributaries north of Kotz and not see a single other person. Last year we floated by groups every two miles. Golden Eagle and Ram are stacking group after group on the same gravel bars a few miles apart. I didn’t hear about a single group that didn’t have bears in their camps night after night stealing quarters.

There are those of you that complain about how F’d up the western states are becoming with hunting, so you turn around and are trying to bring that crap up to Alaska. Some of you think what I’m saying is divisive, I see it as common sense to not discuss hunting areas over the internet.


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[ddavis_1313]

Speaking for myself, this has nothing to do with me not wanting people to come up and experience caribou hunting. There are plenty of caribou up here and it would be awesome for everyone to get up here once in their lives. The problem is that Kotzebue is all non-residents talk about on this public forum and treat it like it’s the only place in Alaska to hunt Caribou.

Next, hordes of hunters travel through a village to get flown out into their hunting area. This village is where people live their routine, day after day. Then August/ September rolls around and the airport is packed day after day with guys in their camo.

Next, resident hunters are priced out of hunts because the air transporters quadruple their prices because “non-residents” are willing to pay. This quote came straight from the horses mouth.

Next comes the crowding. You guys from the L48 are used to running into other hunters in the field. It’s normal down there. One of the perks of Alaska is it’s vastness. You should be able to hunt without ever seeing another human. You used to be able to float any of rivers or tributaries north of Kotz and not see a single other person. Last year we floated by groups every two miles. Golden Eagle and Ram are stacking group after group on the same gravel bars a few miles apart. I didn’t hear about a single group that didn’t have bears in their camps night after night stealing quarters.

There are those of you that complain about how F’d up the western states are becoming with hunting, so you turn around and are trying to bring that crap up to Alaska. Some of you think what I’m saying is divisive, I see it as common sense to not discuss hunting areas over the internet.


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Honestly, I picked Kotz because it was the only place I could get a hunt mid September and take my wife for a once in a lifetime trip. If I had my choice, I’d hunt the 40 mile heard and do a drop hunt. That’s what I wanted to do but couldn’t find anyone to transport us. We want to do a drop hunt and experience the wilderness of Alaska and be remote and just us two. Hell, I’d gladly give up my deposit with my current outfitter and hunt the 40 mile heard if that transporter was reputable and could put us on nice caribou. If you know of anyone or want to lend a helping hand, I’m all ears. Because hunting mid September out of Kotz seems like a total crap shoot unless we hunt the north slope in 26 and that won’t be known if it’s possible until we get there and k ow the weather situation.


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[z987k]

Speaking for myself, this has nothing to do with me not wanting people to come up and experience caribou hunting. There are plenty of caribou up here and it would be awesome for everyone to get up here once in their lives. The problem is that Kotzebue is all non-residents talk about on this public forum and treat it like it’s the only place in Alaska to hunt Caribou.

Next, hordes of hunters travel through a village to get flown out into their hunting area. This village is where people live their routine, day after day. Then August/ September rolls around and the airport is packed day after day with guys in their camo.

Next, resident hunters are priced out of hunts because the air transporters quadruple their prices because “non-residents” are willing to pay. This quote came straight from the horses mouth.

Next comes the crowding. You guys from the L48 are used to running into other hunters in the field. It’s normal down there. One of the perks of Alaska is it’s vastness. You should be able to hunt without ever seeing another human. You used to be able to float any of rivers or tributaries north of Kotz and not see a single other person. Last year we floated by groups every two miles. Golden Eagle and Ram are stacking group after group on the same gravel bars a few miles apart. I didn’t hear about a single group that didn’t have bears in their camps night after night stealing quarters.

There are those of you that complain about how F’d up the western states are becoming with hunting, so you turn around and are trying to bring that crap up to Alaska. Some of you think what I’m saying is divisive, I see it as common sense to not discuss hunting areas over the internet.


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Ha, my biggest fear is with this closure, it's going to bring hunters to where I hunt. I hunt where I hunt because it's about as far from any charter outfit as you can get. But that doesn't mean they can't get there. It'd just cost more.
The last thing I'd do is talk about where it is or how to hunt it online. I'll barely tell some of my closest friends that info. The amount of money, in gasoline alone I've spent for this info, and to just give it away and ruin it? Nope.

 

[z987k]

Honestly, I picked Kotz because it was the only place I could get a hunt mid September and take my wife for a once in a lifetime trip. If I had my choice, I’d hunt the 40 mile heard and do a drop hunt. That’s what I wanted to do but couldn’t find anyone to transport us. We want to do a drop hunt and experience the wilderness of Alaska and be remote and just us two. Hell, I’d gladly give up my deposit with my current outfitter and hunt the 40 mile heard if that transporter was reputable and could put us on nice caribou. If you know of anyone or want to lend a helping hand, I’m all ears. Because hunting mid September out of Kotz seems like a total crap shoot unless we hunt the north slope in 26 and that won’t be known if it’s possible until we get there and k ow the weather situation.


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People hunt the 40 mile heard with a truck and 4 wheeler every year. It's one of 2 herds there's absolutely no need for air transport for.
Air transport increases your odds, but it's not necessary. There's even the non-motorized zone, that if you're willing to put in the work, people are quite successful at.

 

[WI Shedhead]

Lb- you have to be impressed how this thread has taken life and I’ll bet you never thought it would exceed 500 responses.

One thing all of us will know after the 2022 season, is if caribou hunting under the new format will be feasible for this herd. It is very obvious the, (imo) extra ground that was closed to the kobuk river will effectively make it really tough to make a go of it, but we will find out.

What excuse will the subsistence hunters defer to this next year if the herds don’t roll through thier towns like they apparently used too?

 

[Catag94]

Speaking for myself, this has nothing to do with me not wanting people to come up and experience caribou hunting. There are plenty of caribou up here and it would be awesome for everyone to get up here once in their lives. The problem is that Kotzebue is all non-residents talk about on this public forum and treat it like it’s the only place in Alaska to hunt Caribou.

Next, hordes of hunters travel through a village to get flown out into their hunting area. This village is where people live their routine, day after day. Then August/ September rolls around and the airport is packed day after day with guys in their camo.

Next, resident hunters are priced out of hunts because the air transporters quadruple their prices because “non-residents” are willing to pay. This quote came straight from the horses mouth.

Next comes the crowding. You guys from the L48 are used to running into other hunters in the field. It’s normal down there. One of the perks of Alaska is it’s vastness. You should be able to hunt without ever seeing another human. You used to be able to float any of rivers or tributaries north of Kotz and not see a single other person. Last year we floated by groups every two miles. Golden Eagle and Ram are stacking group after group on the same gravel bars a few miles apart. I didn’t hear about a single group that didn’t have bears in their camps night after night stealing quarters.

There are those of you that complain about how F’d up the western states are becoming with hunting, so you turn around and are trying to bring that crap up to Alaska. Some of you think what I’m saying is divisive, I see it as common sense to not discuss hunting areas over the internet.


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With all due respect to you sir, I have a few thoughts on your comments.



First, you said it yourself, “there are plenty of caribou up here…”

Second, other herds and areas are discussed on Rokslide for sure. Porcupine herd areas, 40-mile, Nelchina, etc. However, I agree that broadcasting a public forum

Third, I don’t see the problem with a busy airport for a couple months. It has a lot of positive impact I imagine along with perhaps a little congestion for a time. Nonetheless, the community and many locals benefit from that traffic I’m sure.

Fourth, you can buy into the idea that air transporters quadruple their prices for Aug/Sept if you wish. However, having experience and understanding the costs per hour of flying one of the planes they use, I would suggest that doing it for 1/4 the amount they are charging nonresidents is absurd unless they need to shed profits from other sources of income.

Ram and GEO both have good reputations for avoiding precisely what you are claiming they do…drop hunter in the same area as other current hunters. GEO is urging their clients for 2022 to push to 2023 in hopes the closure is overturned. This isn’t because it’s good for them in the short term, but rather, they are doing so to ensure their clients are able to get the experience you talk about (vast Alaskan wilderness hunting without running into other hunters), because that’s what their clients get every year. Sure, they may use a gravel bar for one group after another group is gone, but to suggest the hunters they transport are bumping into each other is being disingenuous.

You’re painting this like the problem is over-crowding of the vast lands of units 23 and 26a, as a result of public forum info sharing. But I believe you know better. The real issue boils down to locals, particularly RAC members (and a very small handful at that) don’t want non-locals coming there. They try incessantly to use the FSB to accomplish this and this time, with a fairly significant amount of guidance from the OSM, they have been successful. They continue this with complete disregard of facts, research, and evidence that contradicts their claims and reasonings in an effort to keep the vast lands for themselves. It is truly sick. Furthermore, your finger pointing at the people who are actually being disenfranchised in this is sick too.


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