Hold on to your GMU 23/26A Shorts boys

[chucko]

I too have been hunting the Arctic for 20+ years . I live in Juneau but the meat from my harvests feed my family . The money I spend on a transporter feeds his or her family . The transporter in return buys fuel and groceries locally and that too helps others make a living . Hunting is something I have done since I was old enough to walk it is ingrained in me . As a hunter I would never harvest a animal without utilizing every scrap of meat especially since I have quite a investment in obtaining it . The bottom line is these are federal lands of the USA open to all US citizens . These actions are racist pure and simple- being a white man in Alaska I have experienced racism more times then I care to count . We all bleed the same color . If the science told me that the caribou were in danger I would not hunt them pure and simple . I promise that Larry would agree we must all come together on this.

 

[Cheechako]

I really appreciate all of your thoughtful responses. I’d just like to point out that being discriminated against based on your race feels like shit regardless of your race. Responding to discrimination with discrimination effectively undermines any valid argument you might have.

I had the privilege of talking to a biologist friend in Fairbanks about this issue the other night and he echoed my understanding that this is a social issue, not a biological one. Others may disagree and I respect that.
I feel like hunters from outside of the area can always do better to build relationships with locals and to make sure the money they are spending is staying in those communities. Larry has been a great advocate for responsible use of our lands and respecting the animals we take and taking care of the meat. I feel like his platform could also be used to advocate for improving relationships with locals. But I’ll defer to him and others who have spent time in this area and hunted these caribou.

I personally haven’t been out to kotzebue or this area yet and it probably shows from my response. Some villages and areas aren’t as friendly to outsiders and I get that. They likely have a reason for it.

I will be listening and likely testifying like I did the last time. I’d urge others participating to listen to those who don’t agree with you and stick to your points instead of dismissing theirs.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I’ll just reiterate that people in bush alaska rely on these animals in a way that’s very hard to understand as someone who lives outside. I grew up in Montana eating wild game but had no real concept of subsistence until I lived in the bush for 6 months.
Subsistence is fundamentally different then sport hunting. It’s purpose is to provide food and maintain relationships between the people and the animals. It’s not a luxury or a hobby.
I understand that adfg’s data and previous studies do not support the position that non rural resident sport hunters are negatively effecting caribou numbers or subsistence harvest.
But the local people who rely on these resources have seen a disruption and feel like it’s negatively effecting their ability to provide for themselves. In my opinion, that should be respected. Again you don’t need to agree with them, but try to understand their viewpoint and engage in an honest conversation instead of dismissing them.

The worst cases of wanton waste and disrespect for animals I have ever witnessed was done by natives who were “subsistence” hunting. Respect is earned, not given. I refuse to respect anybody for simply being from a place.

 

[kwackkillncrew]

and generally they get a slap on the wrist......

 

[Larry Bartlett]

Cheechako, i agree with your mindset.

The fact is my approaches for "improving relationships" with regional locals has primarily focused on areas of personal interest (i.e. caribou and "sport" hunting). The first progressive step was attending RAC meetings in kotzebue for two years in 2005 and 2006 to wrap my head around common issues I felt were changeable to improve the perception of non-local hunters. The RAC board suggested that i get involved with the newly reformed WACH Working Group to participate in the issues and management of the herd and its users.

Meanwhile, I designed a social experiment, known as a Project Bloodtrail, to be the first professional hunter to capture meat salvage, preservation, and transport failures in our user group (non-local sport hunters if you will). I executed that study, filmed it, and edited the project for three years from 2007-2010 (release date). I presented the film at the WACH WG meeting where I had recently joined on as Fairbanks Hunters chair and stayed involved. Natives from all communities watched the film and thanked me for doing such a thing for hunter education. I asked community elders what they thought about the context and content of the project. They all told me that while the film was enjoyable and very informative, it hasn't changed the way sport hunters think and behave in their region. Okay, not good enough. That I've since learned is because of their prejudice not my educational efforts.

I stayed with the WG for three years and attempted numerous head-on approaches to their perception of me and those like me. No traction no change in perception.

in 2015 (if memory serves) I assumed the reigns as chair for the Alaska Chapter Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, where I designed and financed several projects to improve relations with that community and to ultimately heighten the level of hunter education they have always complained about.

Fast forward to 2015/16 during the WSA 16-01 when the NWRAC used the FSB to close GMU 23 to caribou hunters on federal lands. I hunted and filmed a 4-hour edited documentary on specifically the issues they used to close public lands for hunting. I gave the 3-dvd project to the RAC, WACH WG, USFWS, NPS, and also left a pile of dvds for any local who wished to see what steps non-locals are taking to improve relations and squash perception. The trash can is where that project went in that community. Not a single acknowledgement from any org or person whatsoever.

Obviously I'm biased in my approach, but their perception hasn't budged and I've spent tens of thousands of dollars out of my pocket for organizational and individual support of problem solving. All for naught I'm afraid.

I ask you sir, help me understand where the prejudice is, what more can I do professionally to change false perceptions of non-local hunters, and how can further support there remaining an opportunity to hunt caribou in GMU 23 and 26A,

 

[trapperJ]

Ah Cheechako, I'm am thankful someone here is at least sympathetic to subsistence and also has obvious respect for the land, animals and people in rural AK (and MT). Thank you sincerely for your input. In no order I'd like to engage with you on some of your valid points.

1. "those mutherfuckers" should have been more clearly defined by me as any rural subsistence user of Alaska resources using the federal system (financed by all tax paying Americans) to unnecessarily restrict non-local tax payers the right to gather food resources without provocation or legitimacy.

2. Subsistence hunters rely on meat the SAME way as I do. My zip code defines me as "sport hunter" yet my physiology defines me as a selective and effective hunter gather. That's social politics and it is what it is. Intentions prove the weight of a man's soul and I have been engaged with these issues for more than a decade and have met complete resistance from NW locals because I am white and not right. My 3-year term serving a chair for Fairbanks Hunters on the Western Arctic Caribou Herd Working Group opened my eyes to how and why the system was designed, how it works and how it is currently being manipulated to illegally thwart transporters and non-local hunters by falsely interpreting ANILCA Title 8 and using the federal system as a means to effect their agenda. Your point was that subsistence is different than sport hunting because it provides food and maintains relationships with the people. We are not people to those rural communities, we are obstacles and perceived nuisances, and we are sport hunters and not non-local subsistence hunters because that's what they like to use for wrapping up the context of a non-local hunter. That sir, is driven by prejudice not equality and not subsistence. I've left more antlers in the field than I can count, so what makes me a sport hunter?

3. If the locals anywhere in the region, which is the geographical size of at least 5 (five) US states, has evidence of a "disruption of subsistence ways of life" I assure you that it has not been submitted. No photo yet everyone above the age of 12 has an i-phone. no video, no police reports, nothing. Every shred of complaint against non-local hunters is anecdotal and social gossip with a chain of local support to believe such nonsense is real. Their ways of life have not been disrupted, sir, they have been boosted by not only the municipalities and jobs created by federal presence, water, sewer, airport maint...typcial stuff where our tax dollars are spent, but also several attempts have been agreed upon to appease their anecdotal complaints by way of NO HUNTING SUPPORTED ACTIVITIES along the first 120 miles of the Noatak River. They have been granted extensions of this corridor over the decades to the point where non-local hunters simply do not exists within a hundred miles of their hunting and fishing camps during season. The only disruption that is definable and tangible is that taken from federal public land owners and their right to access remote hunting opportunities for their food (a state resource) on shared public lands.

4. If non-local hunters have "affected their ability to provide food for themselves" where is the proof of our wrong doing? They cut the backs of skinny caribou shot in the kobuk river, and if the fat isn't thick enough they let that carcass float down the river and collect like rotting driftwood. Thats not what ancient NW hunter gathers did before zip codes were created. That is behavior the modern rural Alaskan has adopted because they believe those caribou and moose are theirs, and they are constitutionally wrong. It's "ours" and that requires some effort on both parties to understand when there exists a shortage of resources, and that's why ANILCA was created. The state and federal biologists study these animals and make suggestions on bag limits and harvest quotas to the Alaska BOG. ANILCA doesn't do that and it should not be used by subsistence peoples to defy science and state law just to prove those animals are theirs. It's a dangerous precedent to set, period.

5. Be cognizant of our privilege to hunt that land? Yes sir, I am not only cognizant but also willing to defend my rights to hunt that land the same way I have for 26 years, when those rights are unfairly in question of disappearing year by year and mile by mile.

6. Show respect for people who lived there thousands of years. I agree. No one in that region can name a relative who lived there before the Russians and European whalers and fur hunters arrived 150 years. We are now living with a peoples lacking the same lifestyle opportunities and methods of operation than ancient Native Alaskan. Respect is earned. Respect is shared, not proprietary and not decided by the color of your skin or the zip code in which you live. If they want respect, share the resource and allow the system to remain a tool for guidance and authority when times are truly dire; but don't assume people owe you respect for deciding to live in a rural community where caribou live hundreds of miles from your zip code and then complain that you can't reach them and they wont come to me. That's not hunting, that's waiting for a hand out. You want caribou, go find them like we do. I won't buy a $4000 four wheeler or $25,000 jet boat to get them like they will, but I'll hire a transporter to get me over Native lands and onto my lands. That doesn't make me a sport hunter it makes me determined.

Post of the year. Thanks Larry!

 

[Larry Bartlett]

One more effect of local concerns, which was implemented around 2015 to reduce user conflict perception.

Unit 23 Pilot Orientation, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Alaska Department of Fish and Game

www.adfg.alaska.gov

This mandate basically serves as a front-line defense against bringing any questionable meat back into Kotz from the field. Despite pilots having to complete and comply with this training and actions for transporting hunters, locals continue to testify about concerns of rotting meat in plastic bags from guys in camo and that sport hunters are only in it for the antlers. State Troopers deny having reports or investigations of any such occurrences, yet pilots still have to comply to check the box for local perception.

We are doing what "they" require of us for conflict resolution. Hunters who go out of Kotz for hunting are well-informed of the issues and encouraged to stay legal, act respectfully and not linger about in town and to care for their game meat as if their rights depend on it. Despite these efforts, locals still have ill regard for non-local hunters.

I am listening, desire peace, and willing to stay engaged on anything we can do to stop the misuse of the FSB for these closures. Until a winning method comes to light, lets arrow the facts into the target on Nov 17th.

 

[ppumil]

We should all respect the game we go for but am I missing something as a naive lower 48er. They are asking for me and anyone not in their group to be excluded cause it is getting a little harder to get the caribou. I am not being rude here I am just trying to understand. They also want to ban Moose in case they need to go after them. They admit they do not really use any moose meat in their own reports. So moose was added as an after thought to restrict my rights to my land even more. If i lived in Alaska or not this violates Federal Regulations 50 CFR 100.19(b)(1) - saying any closure should not be "an unnecessary restriction on nonsubsistence users". I am not even looking at hunting moose there and don't even know if I have the right to harvest one but am opposed to restriction based on nothing but a desire for one group to have more rights than another on federal land.
The biology is also very clear on one thing if you read it and please correct me if I am wrong. Killing cows and calves has the greatest impact on the herd numbers in relation to hunting. The mature bulls are best to take but I understand there is a fear I may take the leading one and redirect the herd. I appreciate wisdom but hearsay is no good. Give me the evidence or ask me to let the leading bull go. Larry talks about letting 20 go by before you even consider taking one in his video. You are going to take away my right over an unproven theory. I respect tradition but I hate ignorance being used to take my rights away.
I also note that the 165 or even if you use highest number seen for caribou harvested by transporters and guides makes up less than 5% of the total numbers in a herd for greater than 200000. They also admit that the numbers for subsistence are a pure estimate. You want to save this resource and have it for yourself but there are no good numbers on how many you are taking. I am confused. I have not used my forestry and wildlife teachings from LSU since I went to medical school but that sure doesn't seem right to me.
The year there was no hunting in 2016 and 2017 I believe the collar numbers showed a marked reduction in the herd crossing the river then. You are trying to blame planes and outfitter but you have no evidence. I can still come fish or hike so what is the difference. Are you now banning ecotourists from seeing their national parks. They use planes too!!!
It starts here and it never ends cause greed corrupts. You get it for yourself and you don't want to let it go. It is human nature sadly. That is why we must all fight for our rights here. I have not been involved in this for the long run like Larry and many others but I see how egregious this is and will stand up for my rights. I am a hunter wanting to plan a hunt and have come upon a shit show like this.
The other fact that is concerning to me as I plan is the fact that one area has most of the conflict per the WSA21-01 report. Maybe we should see why that is and not just blame one side.
I am trying to educate myself on this issue and must say it is scary the more I read. My rights have been ignored and there are greater attempts to take them from me as I look closer. I oppose this kind of action!

 

[Cheechako]

Cheechako, i agree with your mindset.

The fact is my approaches for "improving relationships" with regional locals has primarily focused on areas of personal interest (i.e. caribou and "sport" hunting). The first progressive step was attending RAC meetings in kotzebue for two years in 2005 and 2006 to wrap my head around common issues I felt were changeable to improve the perception of non-local hunters. The RAC board suggested that i get involved with the newly reformed WACH Working Group to participate in the issues and management of the herd and its users.

Meanwhile, I designed a social experiment, known as a Project Bloodtrail, to be the first professional hunter to capture meat salvage, preservation, and transport failures in our user group (non-local sport hunters if you will). I executed that study, filmed it, and edited the project for three years from 2007-2010 (release date). I presented the film at the WACH WG meeting where I had recently joined on as Fairbanks Hunters chair and stayed involved. Natives from all communities watched the film and thanked me for doing such a thing for hunter education. I asked community elders what they thought about the context and content of the project. They all told me that while the film was enjoyable and very informative, it hasn't changed the way sport hunters think and behave in their region. Okay, not good enough. That I've since learned is because of their prejudice not my educational efforts.

I stayed with the WG for three years and attempted numerous head-on approaches to their perception of me and those like me. No traction no change in perception.

in 2015 (if memory serves) I assumed the reigns as chair for the Alaska Chapter Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, where I designed and financed several projects to improve relations with that community and to ultimately heighten the level of hunter education they have always complained about.

Fast forward to 2015/16 during the WSA 16-01 when the NWRAC used the FSB to close GMU 23 to caribou hunters on federal lands. I hunted and filmed a 4-hour edited documentary on specifically the issues they used to close public lands for hunting. I gave the 3-dvd project to the RAC, WACH WG, USFWS, NPS, and also left a pile of dvds for any local who wished to see what steps non-locals are taking to improve relations and squash perception. The trash can is where that project went in that community. Not a single acknowledgement from any org or person whatsoever.

Obviously I'm biased in my approach, but their perception hasn't budged and I've spent tens of thousands of dollars out of my pocket for organizational and individual support of problem solving. All for naught I'm afraid.

I ask you sir, help me understand where the prejudice is, what more can I do professionally to change false perceptions of non-local hunters, and how can further support there remaining an opportunity to hunt caribou in GMU 23 and 26A,

I appreciate the extensive time and effort you’ve put in. The only suggestion I have is asking elders and people in the communities what you can do to change their perception of non local hunters. I know that sounds way over simplistic, but it might be worth a shot.
If you’ve already tried this approach and they said “nothing” then you’ve got your answer.

 

[Cheechako]

We should all respect the game we go for but am I missing something as a naive lower 48er. They are asking for me and anyone not in their group to be excluded cause it is getting a little harder to get the caribou. I am not being rude here I am just trying to understand. They also want to ban Moose in case they need to go after them. They admit they do not really use any moose meat in their own reports. So moose was added as an after thought to restrict my rights to my land even more. If i lived in Alaska or not this violates Federal Regulations 50 CFR 100.19(b)(1) - saying any closure should not be "an unnecessary restriction on nonsubsistence users". I am not even looking at hunting moose there and don't even know if I have the right to harvest one but am opposed to restriction based on nothing but a desire for one group to have more rights than another on federal land.
The biology is also very clear on one thing if you read it and please correct me if I am wrong. Killing cows and calves has the greatest impact on the herd numbers in relation to hunting. The mature bulls are best to take but I understand there is a fear I may take the leading one and redirect the herd. I appreciate wisdom but hearsay is no good. Give me the evidence or ask me to let the leading bull go. Larry talks about letting 20 go by before you even consider taking one in his video. You are going to take away my right over an unproven theory. I respect tradition but I hate ignorance being used to take my rights away.
I also note that the 165 or even if you use highest number seen for caribou harvested by transporters and guides makes up less than 5% of the total numbers in a herd for greater than 200000. They also admit that the numbers for subsistence are a pure estimate. You want to save this resource and have it for yourself but there are no good numbers on how many you are taking. I am confused. I have not used my forestry and wildlife teachings from LSU since I went to medical school but that sure doesn't seem right to me.
The year there was no hunting in 2016 and 2017 I believe the collar numbers showed a marked reduction in the herd crossing the river then. You are trying to blame planes and outfitter but you have no evidence. I can still come fish or hike so what is the difference. Are you now banning ecotourists from seeing their national parks. They use planes too!!!
It starts here and it never ends cause greed corrupts. You get it for yourself and you don't want to let it go. It is human nature sadly. That is why we must all fight for our rights here. I have not been involved in this for the long run like Larry and many others but I see how egregious this is and will stand up for my rights. I am a hunter wanting to plan a hunt and have come upon a shit show like this.
The other fact that is concerning to me as I plan is the fact that one area has most of the conflict per the WSA21-01 report. Maybe we should see why that is and not just blame one side.
I am trying to educate myself on this issue and must say it is scary the more I read. My rights have been ignored and there are greater attempts to take them from me as I look closer. I oppose this kind of action!

Paul another aspect of this is the price of groceries in rural Alaskan communities. If you go to a grocery store in kotzebue you’ll see this first hand. Prices are exorbitant for basic necessities and hunting is key to food security especially when global supply chains are being disrupted by COVID. This might be kind of a stretch, but I think some of the consternation by locals is that people from outside are flying thousands of miles and spending large quantities of money to come and compete with them for their groceries. In other words, you want to hunt these caribou, while they need to.

You can probably understand why they are trying to restrict access in this context.

 

[z987k]

Federal lands in that area are unceded inupiaq territory.

This just isn't true. We could completely rehash ANSCA, but I really hope that isn't necessary.

 

[Cheechako]

This just isn't true. We could completely rehash ANSCA, but I really hope that isn't necessary.

Thanks for the correction. I’ve heard perspectives to that effect, but ANSCA did effectively extinguish those indigenous land claims. I should have said it is the traditional territory or the inupiaq or inupiat people.
I edited my original post to keep from misinforming anyone.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Paul another aspect of this is the price of groceries in rural Alaskan communities. If you go to a grocery store in kotzebue you’ll see this first hand. Prices are exorbitant for basic necessities and hunting is key to food security especially when global supply chains are being disrupted by COVID. This might be kind of a stretch, but I think some of the consternation by locals is that people from outside are flying thousands of miles and spending large quantities of money to come and compete with them for their groceries. In other words, you want to hunt these caribou, while they need to.

You can probably understand why they are trying to restrict access in this context.

Give me a break, you act like it’s hard to get groceries in Ak. I’ve lived in places including kotzebue and other rural communities for the past 10 years. I’ve spent close to ten year living in AK and none of that time has been on the main road system. I’ve yet to meet anybody who is 100% reliant on subsistence activities, it’s noting more than a hobby for 99% of people who live in these areas.

 

[kwackkillncrew]

How long have you been up here chechako. They have plenty of options for food. They have plenty of other seasons outside of just caribou hunting. They decide how they want to live their life just like everyone else. My buddy was just in ambler for work and said most houses in kotz had 2 or 3 caribou out in the yard. Call it what you want but the truth is they don't want anyone but natives to be able to hunt that part of the state. Plain and simple.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Cheechako]

Kwackkillncrew I’ve lived here seasonally for 5 years and permanently the last three. Hence the name. I’ve still got lots to learn.

My main point was stick to your points in your testimonies. Dismissing local’s perspectives as anecdotal or telling your own anecdotes of meat waste in villages is a poor use of your two minutes. That’s it.

 

[ppumil]

I appreciate the extensive time and effort you’ve put in. The only suggestion I have is asking elders and people in the communities what you can do to change their perception of non local hunters. I know that sounds way over simplistic, but it might be worth a shot.
If you’ve already tried this approach and they said “nothing” then you’ve got your answer.

I think that is very wise and just last night read about the elders in the villages that rely on the herd. I will also say that when I hunted moose I did speak to elders and young people. I was blessed to have an elder sit next to me for a flight and realized that there is not the same weather as when she was young and that was her logic for their herd of caribou having marked decrease in numbers. It was also why the moose had high numbers.
The elders noted no caribou in their villages and having to work hard to get get them in the report. I agree with knowledge being important.
Thanks,
Paul

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I think that is very wise and just last night read about the elders in the villages that rely on the herd. I will also say that when I hunted moose I did speak to elders and young people. I was blessed to have an elder sit next to me for a flight and realized that there is not the same weather as when she was young and that was her logic for their herd of caribou having marked decrease in numbers. It was also why the moose had high numbers.
The elders noted no caribou in their villages and having to work hard to get get them in the report. I agree with knowledge being important.
Thanks,
Paul

Elders…

 

[ppumil]

The argument that you need it more than me does not work. They can raise reindeer like they had before or do other things. I am quite certain there are options and it is not necessary as in the past. I realize the tradition but one has to also adapt to the reality you are not the only ones using this resource. I am sorry but this is a shared resource. You already have marked preference over me and even other residents of Alaska. Do not say you deserve it more and that is why you should have all right to yourself.
This is actually a federal resource and you should share in the management with accurate reporting and true studies to support it's well being. Do not say it is hard and we need to make it easier for you get caribou. I am pretty sure traditional is not rifles, boats, snow mobiles and such. They have asked for the coordinates of the collared members of herd and I am sure that is so you can just go when you know where they are. If you want those things then I am sorry you have given up the traditions of the past and need to accept modern world to manage a resource we share. I am trying to see the other side but when there is a lack of information and just hearsay that is pretty hard. The fact we are spending so much energy on this when there are so many things that are more important in the management of the herd is what is most frustrating for me as new participant in this. We are squabbling over what we should all be protecting and improving.
I have said my piece here and will try to get my opinion on the call at the meeting coming up. I wish you all well and hope the best for this resource to be preserved and bettered. This is not the best path for it and I am totally opposed.
PAUL

 

[thinhorn_AK]

One of the first times I was invited out hunting with the locals was a caribou hunt. We drove out on a river on snow machines and came up to a small group of caribou, maybe like 40 animals. I got my gun out and was getting ready to take a shot at one and all of the sudden there was just gunfire everywhere. The 3 other guys I was with were just unloading their mini 14s into the crowd. It was horrible, animals jumping around, gut shots broken legs. In the end there was like 7 dead ones and blood trails going in all directions. They never even suggested going and looking for the others. They just loaded up the dead ones and hung them on the porch. A few got butchered and a few were just given away out of laziness and a couple got dragged away by dogs.

Those same people were the most vocal about the traditions, respect and connection with the land. While I realize that not everybody does this, I have dozens more examples of things like this from over the past decade.

 

[ppumil]

Elders…

there is a report posted by Larry actually that is interviews with elders. That was what i am referencing.
Uqausriptigum: in our own words, a Selawik Refuge publication based on 2003 interviews