How do you aim? Smaller gaps- nice

Beendare

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Lets talk aiming methods.........

Well I knew smaller gaps is an advantage- no matter what aiming system you use...but I got reminded today working up an arrow for a lighter 40# bow I plan to shoot tourneys with.

For those that have no idea what I'm talking about; Your arrow has an arc with the highest point being 1/2 way between your point on and the target. PO is the distance where when you put the tip of the arrow on the target- thats where it hits.

So if you have a point on like me- 38 yds...the highest point of the arc is right at 20 yds. The high arc corresponded to your biggest gap between the top of your arrow at FD and aiming point on target. My gap at 20yds is 7/8". So at 25yds and 15yds its 1/2"...and so on.

Back to my new setup. Tradtech 19" Aluminum riser with 30# Dryad RC limbs, 40# finished weight v the 50# limbs I hunt with...so easier to spend all day on the range with. I dropped down to a much lighter arrow as I want speed and less arc...v the better penetration of my heavy hunting arrow. So instead of 340s at 543gr...these will finish close to 388gr. [I'm still bare shaft testing so it might change a little]

So less arc...better for 3D...but I didn't realize that a much smaller gap at that 30ys and it was such an advantage. My hunting bow has me holding off the animal....this bow I'm on the animal all the time. My gap at the app mid point- 15 yds or so is 1/2".

Now I typically don't really look at the gap...instead I look at the spot I'm trying to hit...but I see the arrow in my peripheral vision.

This smaller gap is going to be more accurate on these close shots for the same reason a fixed crawl is accurate as heck.

Anybody else shoot a small gap or fixed crawl?


______
 
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Fixed crawl here. Going that direction helped make me accurate enough to start hunting with my recurve a few years ago. I could never get consistent enough with 3 under or split. Makes tuning a little harder without the ability to adjust tiller on my bow but well worth it.
 
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What I don't like about conscious gap shooting: If you don't hit a very consistent draw length and anchor, your aiming reference is affected for the worse.

What I do like about gap shooting: It will force you to hit your anchor every time, which is always a good thing for accuracy.

I tried fixed crawl but found it to be not so good for moving targets with ever-changing yardage up to the point of taking the shot. I don't like having to pay attention to my nock point...string....tab when I've got eyes all around me.
 

GLB

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I haven’t shot indoor tournaments but for hunting and 3D I look at what I want to hit out to 30 yards. I have recently developed a point on aiming method for shots beyond that.

So with most of my setups my point on is about 40 yards give or take depending on which bow I am shooting. I feel that knowing your point on could help in a hunting situation. I will also carry a range finder for that purpose.

You can use that known point on distance and easily gap 5 yards on either side of it. So for me it’s 35 40 45 yards. Otherwise I would look at a spot (instinctive) and shoot as most of my shots will be less than 30 yards.
 
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I haven’t shot indoor tournaments but for hunting and 3D I look at what I want to hit out to 30 yards. I have recently developed a point on aiming method for shots beyond that.

So with most of my setups my point on is about 40 yards give or take depending on which bow I am shooting. I feel that knowing your point on could help in a hunting situation. I will also carry a range finder for that purpose.

You can use that known point on distance and easily gap 5 yards on either side of it. So for me it’s 35 40 45 yards. Otherwise I would look at a spot (instinctive) and shoot as most of my shots will be less than 30 yards.

This is me, too. While I wouldn't call myself proficient at longer yardages, I have found this to be the most efficient way for me to shoot. I really enjoy the simplicity of the instinctive shooting at closer ranges and I'm not sure I would enjoy shooting as much if I did it another way.
 
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Beendare

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I used the term gap...though I don't think the way I shoot is true gap shooting. I mention it for the fact that a smaller gap between the end of you arrow and the target....gives me a better reference.

I shot instinctive for about a year. Sometimes I couldn't miss...sometimes I would miss badly and have no reference on how to correct those misses- frustrating.

The way I shoot now is what I think Howard Hill used to do; I see the gap in my peripheral vision as a reference...but I focus on the spot I'm trying to hit.

I think focusing on the gap itself has flaws for hunting. First you aren't picking a small spot. Second you lose sight of the animals body language.

I doubt Gap shooters actually focus on the gap completely without focusing on the target.......they must be 'setting the gap' then focusing on the spot...so not much different than the way I shoot...but I dunno.

So many good ways to shoot a stick bow.....


...
 

GLB

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^^^ Similar for me as well. At closer range 30 yards and in I see the arrow as I pick my spot and it is a reference but i am not using it directly to aim. At 35-45 yards I do use the arrow directly to aim if I am sure of the range.
 

Clifford

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I’m trying fixed crawl and have had success combining it with a sort of “feels good” gap which I didn’t really mean to do. I enjoy the smaller gaps. I’ve been considering tying two reference points on my string for crawls at maybe 20 and 40 or using my 0 crawl point on as a second reference but am worried I’ll lose my consistent anchor from the crawl. With two points of reference my hold over/under would be manageable to quite a range of distances.
 
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Lets talk aiming methods.........

Well I knew smaller gaps is an advantage- no matter what aiming system you use...but I got reminded today working up an arrow for a lighter 40# bow I plan to shoot tourneys with.

For those that have no idea what I'm talking about; Your arrow has an arc with the highest point being 1/2 way between your point on and the target. PO is the distance where when you put the tip of the arrow on the target- thats where it hits.

So if you have a point on like me- 38 yds...the highest point of the arc is right at 20 yds. The high arc corresponded to your biggest gap between the top of your arrow at FD and aiming point on target. My gap at 20yds is 7/8". So at 25yds and 15yds its 1/2"...and so on.

Back to my new setup. Tradtech 19" Aluminum riser with 30# Dryad RC limbs, 40# finished weight v the 50# limbs I hunt with...so easier to spend all day on the range with. I dropped down to a much lighter arrow as I want speed and less arc...v the better penetration of my heavy hunting arrow. So instead of 340s at 543gr...these will finish close to 388gr. [I'm still bare shaft testing so it might change a little]

So less arc...better for 3D...but I didn't realize that a much smaller gap at that 30ys and it was such an advantage. My hunting bow has me holding off the animal....this bow I'm on the animal all the time. My gap at the app mid point- 15 yds or so is 1/2".

Now I typically don't really look at the gap...instead I look at the spot I'm trying to hit...but I see the arrow in my peripheral vision.

This smaller gap is going to be more accurate on these close shots for the same reason a fixed crawl is accurate as heck.

Anybody else shoot a small gap or fixed crawl?


______
I have my tied in nocking points top and bottom of course, then below my primary tied in nock, I have a longer nail knot, so essentially i'm shooting a fixed crawl, but a small one. that longer knot also keeps my lower nocking point in place no matter what. I have a 27yd point on how i'm set up, and shoot insticta gap inside 20, then use my point beyond that.

I remember talking to you last year about raising my anchor, but recently I dropped it back down to a more solid reference, and it's easier to keep good alignment now than it has been... it's more forgiving on alignment.

I have been shooting this little crawl since last spring, but kind of converted to instinct-ish shooting, the only reason was I couldn't put my point on the spot I wanted to hit, target panic wouldn't allow it, and I adapted and was shooting pretty good that way..... fell apart when it mattered, so I have put my head down and addressed the situation, and now i'm shooting better than ever, with WAY more control than ever.

I have kept the same little crawl, because I like it, it's perfect for my needs, but now I can put the tip on the spot, or wherever I need to and not get twitchy at all.
finally put my pride to the side and started applying Joel Turner's teachings, it's been a big game changer, and once again i find myself outside at 10PM shooting in my headlights, and shooting solid shots.

the small crawl shrinks my gaps, and doesn't make the bow loud like a longer crawl. that was my beef with the fixed crawl, increased bow noise

below my arrow, it looks like one long tied in nock point, but it's actually 2 butted up against each other... hope that makes sense
 
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bobinmi

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I shoot a fixed crawl. I use a 25yd point on crawl. from 0-30 yds I do a "feels good" I know what the gaps are at exact ranges but as long as I'm hunting I'm not concerned with the exact numbers and I don't like playing with a range finder.
 

Terrapin

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I shot tournaments (Indoor, NFAA, and 3D) and hunted with my recurve for many years and was reasonably successful at both. I was successful because I cheated. I didn’t even pretend to shoot instinctively. I shot 3 fingers under, and used a nearly full length arrow. This gave me a point on at exactly 25 yards. From there, I had a chart memorized for exactly how much it would be above or below at different yardages. For instance at 20 yards, I was just at the bottom of a five spot bull. This gave me a tremendous advantage over my competitors, and worked fine in the woods. Additionally, after 10s of thousands of consistent arrows using this method, I didn’t need to “see” the point or do math, I just stared at the spot and my sub-conscious did the rest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

FLS

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I shoot similar to the method described above. If people asked, I called it gapstinktive. I see the gap but focus more on the spot I want to hit.
 

LostArra

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I played with fixed crawl and shot well enough to kill an elk and one deer but I never felt like my bow was in good tune and since I don't shoot heavy draw weight I felt I was losing some horsepower too. I don't have ILF bows to adjust tiller.

My aging eyes also have some trouble using a broadhead as any type of reference point especially since I focus on the target. Too much broadhead blur. Less problem with fieldpoints.

Just for grins I setup one of my recurves with a single fixed brass pin for 25 yards with no crawl. I still don't focus on the pin and shoot similar to Beendare but the broadhead blur is eliminated. I also find that I can shoot pretty well after a practice layoff if my release is good.
 

oldgoat

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I shoot what I call instinctive gap also, split finger with a low anchor. I don't look at the distance and think, that's 30 yards, I need to hold here, I look at the distance and draw the bow and just know where to hold. But once I'm past 35 or 40 yards I become less instinctive and more gappish because my arrow tip is getting a lot closer to the target. I wish I had started out three under when I went back to trad, I think it's better and have dabbled with it a little, but I've shot the other way long enough that nothing else feels right. I have a really long draw, 31", so I can't really adjust my arrow length to change my gaps since I pretty much need the whole uncut arrow, so only way I can change my gap and get my tip closer to the target at close "hunting" range is to slow the arrow down. I used to shoot some pretty fast bows and with my draw length, most of them are faster than average and with the fast arrow and my split finger low anchor, the arrow tip was pointing in the dirt several feet below the target, I was horrible shot at hunting ranges, but was better than average at long ranges. Slowed the arrow down considerably and now I'm a much better shot at closer ranges because the tip, which is still below the target, but not as much. My point on is usually 60+ yards.
 
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Roosie, educational post....lots of info there.

Good to hear you are over the hump shooting wise.

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thanks.... it got rough for awhile. after season I took a break and came back a mess, to the point I bought a couple compounds 😉

it took awhile to finally tighten down and start taking the baby steps to get back into it.... started out pretty bad, and was wondering if I was going to get over the hump, then things started clicking and improvement came fast.

when you get in a slump with a trad bow, it's pretty daunting, work on one aspect of your shot, and it's not getting better because another aspect is being done wrong, like string hand position, or high bow arm shoulder, grip, elbow orientation.... then the rest of the shot like head position, alignment, direction of expansion at the shot, etc.

it's incredibly hard to stay cognitive in all of the aspects of the shot, especially when already frustrated, and if you don't, you just can't have a strong shot.... try to go autopilot and things may seem ok until you shoot over the back of a bull at 15yds.... my autopilot is worthless in the woods, haha, I proved that, so i'm not going back in the woods with autopilot running my shot..... at all.

it's hard enough getting a bull into stick bow range, a lot of effort goes into each of those encounters.... it only makes sense to put the same level of preparation into having a plan when you do get a critter in range, or it's all in vain.

if I did the same thing I did last year, and ended up wounding a bull rather than missing (which seems easier to do at the ranges I was missing them at) I don't think I could pack a stick bow into the woods again, knowing all I can do is hope the next shot goes better. I have prided myself in not being an "arrow flinger" since my first couple hunting seasons, and it doesn't make sense to turn into one 20yrs later:sneaky:

I have a level of confidence now that I have not had with a trad bow, knowing I have the tools to shoot to my ability under pressure with a few months to further improve. it almost seems like defacing my Blacktail putting a clicker on it, but it's either that or use my compound as of now.

it didn't sting too bad last year breaking my streak and not killing an elk, I just don't want to shoot one bad. if it was a matter of miss or kill, it wouldn't be a big deal, but we know that's not the reality of it..... there is a lot of real estate on an elk that shouldn't be shot with an arrow.... a poor shot elk can turn into a hard thing to find, and it may be too late when you do.

to me, having respect for the game we pursue means making sure I walk into the woods proficient with the weapon in my hand.
 
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I am probably breaking some law, but I shoot a small fixed crawl and face walk too. I alway use the tip of my arrow. I grew up shooting long bow and recurve. However have spent the last twenty years with a compound. I got a back into shooting a recurve three years ago. This was just what made sense to me, use to know distance shooting and having pins to aim with. I was an instinctive shooter as a kid and struggled to shoot with consistently past twenty yards. Now shooting with an aiming method or two combined. I can shoot consistently out to forty yards at the range. I still like to be sub twenty when shooting at game.
 
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Beendare

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No laws broken here........and its not cheating in my book to improve accuracy with a stick bow....THE GOAL IS TO BE DEALDY RIGHT?

Thus the discussion..........


I shot tournaments (Indoor, NFAA, and 3D) ........
Good stuff. I've shot with a lot of a top archers and they use this same method...it speaks to "Small gaps" and its extremely accurate.

_______
 
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