How far is to far?

[bummer7580]

This thread could be part of the "Long Range" thread but all opinions are helpful. A recent magazine article described new rifles designed to appeal to the long range hunters. It seems most manufacturers have noticed this interest and are building rifles claimed to be long rangers. To be honest the idea of being able if the opportunity arises to harvest an animal at longer distances has a certain appeal. So far my longest shot on a bull has been 420 yds. I suppose the jury is still out on whether this is a helpful trend.
A couple of experiences have me questioning the capabilities and ethics of hunters considering this. The first was 2 yrs. ago while sitting on an overlook behind a spotting scope in Utah preseason glassing bulls on a distant ridge. Another hunter drove up and started a conversation. He let me know he had also been watching the bull on that distant oak brush covered ridge. He then went on to describe his new rifle and that he was ready to shoot out to 1500 yds. If he was going to shoot at that ridge he was going to use most of that 1500 yds. I looked at him and wondered how he would get over to that ridge to check for a hit, then I assumed if he shot and the bull didn't drop he would probably move on looking for another bull.
The second experience was last fall while tagging along with a guide and a hunter who regularly competes in target shooting. We were over looking a small clearing 620 yds. away which the hunter said was well within his range. We knew a good 6x6 was using the clearing and for 45 mins. we listened to it bugle right at the edge of the clearing. When he stepped into the opening he was broadside giving an excellent shot. At the boom dirt kicked up about 10 feet behind the bull and a little low. That bull tore out of there like a hind end kicked dog. The hunter had a face down to his knees, and announced he must have bumped his scope and it was off. After a long walk back to the truck he said he would like to take a shot at a 6" white rock about 300 yds. away. Boom- splat rock gone. He then said "I guess I just missed". I'm guessing his nerves were wound tight and he jerked the trigger on the bull.
It will be interesting to see if this long range trend continues and will hunters realize their own abilities are the main limiting factor in long range shooting. Equipment will certainly kill cleanly farther then most of us are capable hitting.

 

[Rich M]

This is one of your personal preference kind of things. Archers are king of close range hunting and folks love the challenge. Being a sniper has always been kinda cool so that seems to be what the long range fellas are in it for - the challenge and self satisfaction. That kind of accuracy is not easily obtained and most of the true long range shooters shoot all the time.

I been hunting deer for 40 years and never shot over 125 yards for the first 30 years, most shots were in the 50-75 yard bracket. Then started hunting where 200 yard shots were possible and got proficient with those.

My personal limit is 400 yards, at least for now.

 

[ljalberta]

People can always get buck fever, or miss even at much closer ranges. I don't think there is such a thing as a distance being objectively 'too far'. I'm sure there's guys who shoot at 1500 yards far better than I shoot at 500 yards. More power to them. I am confident out to 400 yards myself at the moment as well, however I'd love to get more into the long distance game someday.

I also feel like most hunters realize their own abilities are the limiting factor. You run into guys every now and then who think they can shoot 1000 yards, until of course they try. It then becomes mighty apparent there's a lot more to the picture than they guessed. But in my personal experience this is a minority group and most often I've bumped into them at a Cabela's gun counter.

 

[dieselchessy]

First, your story of the 620 yard dirt splash didn't include commentary on how you hiked over and looked for signs of a hit. Did that not happen?

Second, I'm not much of a long range guy, but most of my misses have been short range in the timber rushed type stuff. The longer range unaware animal shots have a higher success rate for me.

Personally, for me I like 600 yards or less if conditions are good. But they rarely are. 150 yards to 400 yards seems to be the sweet spot of animal being unaware, plenty of time to set up, and close enough large errors in range and wind calls aren't too detrimental. Assuming a person has practiced, knows their rifle and ammo, and the rifle has a relatively flat trajectory.

95 percent of my kills have been inside of 100 yards though so I'm probably not the guy to ask.

 

[bummer7580]

dieselchessy,
You ask a good question about checking for a hit. We perhaps should have walked over and checked for the remote possibility of a hit. I guess it seemed so obvious as we were looking through spotting scopes that it was a clean miss by 10ft and the bull was untouched. I'm sure if we hadn't seen the bullet strike the ground we have looked for a possible hit. I do appreciate your point.

 

[dieselchessy]

I always go look myself. Too many times I've thought one thing happened only to find that wasn't true.
Also its somewhat of a self imposed punishment for screwing up and a limiter. I know in my head that pulling the trigger means I get to walk over to the target location regardless of the outcome. And it helps me analyze the situation and be more sure of a miss.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

How far is too far? Approximately an inch beyond my effective range.

 

[NV HUNTER]

My longest kill was 355 yards on a bighorn ewe, until i drew my Nevada bull elk tag. My guide told me to be prepared for a shot up to 850 yard. I put a lot of range time in before that hunt and just did not feel comfortable past 500 yards. I passed on 2 bulls that were over 350 (one might have been about 375). I ended up killing a 331" Bull at 525 yards on the last morning.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

From Boone and Crockett

FAIR CHASE STATEMENT
FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.

So.. How far would constitute an unfair advantage over whatever kind of animal you are shooting at? If the animal is far enough away that none of its senses can percieve the shooters presence, then that to me is an unfair advantage. Even at 300 yards i have felt a strong advantage over elk for example, and i dont think many people these days consider 300 yards a long range shot. I definitely do and thats just one opinion.

 

[mtmuley]

How many threads like this is too many? mtmuley

 

[Jebuwh]

How far is too far? Approximately an inch beyond my effective range.

I wish more people would A. Learn what that means, then B. Figure out their effective range.

I've shot with people who without a doubt could shoot the nuts off a squirrel at 800 yards, then there are others who are happy with themselves getting somewhere in the black on paper at 100 yards. Very different effective ranges.

 

[Azone]

You can thank Gunwerks and the movie American Sniper for this new craze. Everyone wants to play special operations sniper now.

But in my opinion it's a personal game time decision on how far is too far. Anything over 400 yards will make me think twice if I want to shoot at it. My longest ever was 700 yards exactly on an elk, two shots later dead bull but since he was 700 yards away we could not see what kind of terrain he would end up rolling into. Long story short we were not able to get to him till the next morning and most of the ground side was a loss. My friend and I still packed all the meat out weather it was good or spoiled to avoid a wanton waste ticket, it was a major downer for an otherwise awesome trip.

Just because one has the capability to shoot 1500 yards but the terrain presents the opportunity to stock within a 200 to 300 yard slam dunk of a shot I would hope someone would choose to stalk their way closer. After all the ability to stalk game is what distinguishes a hunter from a long range target shooter. I'm not knocking the guys that are ETHICAL about their long range hunting, but it's the morons who buy a turreted scope and download a ballistic app to their phones and think they to can be the next Chris Kyle that worry me.

 

[Fatcamp]

Well, being as the current trend in YouTube bro culture is showing bad shots, wounded animals, and non-recovered animals I would guess we have a ways to go before that question is answered.

 

[nv_hunter]

My longest kill was 355 yards on a bighorn ewe, until i drew my Nevada bull elk tag. My guide told me to be prepared for a shot up to 850 yard. I put a lot of range time in before that hunt and just did not feel comfortable past 500 yards. I passed on 2 bulls that were over 350 (one might have been about 375). I ended up killing a 331" Bull at 525 yards on the last morning.

I would hope you told that guide that you're expecting to yet inside of 850. I've never had a guided hunt but I feel like anywhere in Nevada'm you can get pretty stinking close. Good for you for doing at a distance you're comfortable stin with

 

[callthepacker]

How far is too far? Approximately an inch beyond my effective range.

Exactly, everyone's equipment and ability is different.

 

[Rob5589]

Actually shooting long distances is much different than just dialing what a ballistics chart shows.

 

[4rcgoat]

If I cant see the whites of the eyes,I'm too far away!

 

[JWP58]

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/fair_chase


Well according to revered .org's we need to base our ethics off of the great example, Teddy Roosevelt. In that case I suggest all read "elk hunt at two ocean pass". In it you'll read delights of purposefully shooting elk in the flank, collecting "trophies", and recovering only the head and back straps (they were low on meat of course), and how terrible rutting elk taste. So based off of that, I wouldn't worry too much about what shooting distance is "ethical"....per Teddy, just shoot them in the ass.

 

[bradb]

I shoot a lot at long range for fun. I feel very comfortable a fair bit out there. My longest shot was on a deer in KS I passed several times, but he came back into the property wounded. That morning it was so bloody windy my max range was 200 yards. That evening the wind was nothing and when the I saw the deer come in wounded I shot him at 880 facing straight away. BUT he was wounded bad. I still would not have taken that shot if he was not. I have shot a few at over 500. But way to many variables in this for how far is to far.

 

[elkyinzer]

I'm good out to about 35 on a deer, 50 on an elk.

I am a casual rifle hunter, I haven't killed a deer with a gun in 10 years. I virtually never practice shooting either, and about 100 yards in 99.9% of our real world hunting experience out East here is max just due to brush. If I am floating steady on the vitals I'll take the shot. I don't ever plan on rifle hunting out West. If I'm travelling that far, I'm taking my bow. Personally I would consider anything over 400 LR and way out of my comfort zone.

It's hard to assess the long range craze, we just don't see it much locally. It is not very ingrained in Eastern hunting culture just due to the nature of the terrain. Need some very specific setups in strip mines, farms, etc to be able to shoot that far. I guess my gut reaction is basically, not impressed, but if that's what floats you boat who am I to judge? As long as it doesn't disproportionately effect success rates and populations have at it man.